Ragnos Power Thread

I am arguing it because you continue to interject your opinion. Your unwillingness to argue is because you know you don't have anything that can change the debate to your favor.

Luke is superior to all of the Ancient Sith, you have consented this, so we need not debate about it. But the subject of Palpatine remains open. He is stronger than they are, not just because of a quote, but because he has exhibited a far deeper strength in the Force.

The Visual Guides confirm that he dedicated himself completely to studying the Dark Side. The dark side of the Force was so strong in him that it was decaying his body, and he was forced to drain the energy from Byss to sustain his evil. His clones, likewise, could not handle his intense power - which is why he regularly switched his essence.

It is quite clear. In raw power, Sidious is easily above all of the Ancient Sith.

If you disagree, that is your prerogative. But, until you can provide evidence that says likewise, the argument is in my favor.

[quote]The dark side of the Force was so strong in him that it was decaying his bodyquote]

Well there are two actual ways of looking at this:
1. Sidious was so strong in the dark side that it was decaying his body.
2. Sidious' will wasn't strong enough for him to maintain the dark side energies he was giving off.

Originally posted by Escape81
I am arguing it because you continue to interject your opinion. Your unwillingness to argue is because you know you don't have anything that can change the debate to your favor.

Luke is superior to all of the Ancient Sith, you have consented this, so we need not debate about it. But the subject of Palpatine remains open. He is stronger than they are, not just because of a quote, but because he has exhibited a far deeper strength in the Force.

It is quite clear. In [B]raw power, Sidious is easily above all of the Ancient Sith.

If you disagree, that is your prerogative. But, until you can provide evidence that says likewise, the argument is in my favor. [/B][/QUOTE]

And as I've stated before, the ancient sith are above everyone but Sidious and Luke, yet even Sidious goes to them to learn and to get their advice.

Since when are the Ancient Sith above everyone? Are they above Odan-urr and the Four Jedi who pretty much defeated their Coruscant force?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Since when are the Ancient Sith above everyone? Are they above Odan-urr and the Four Jedi who pretty much defeated their Coruscant force?

Uh yea, Ragnos and Sadow are above the 4 jedi that defeated their forces. Stop playing dumb lightsnake, when we mention ancient sith it's usually the 4 most powerful sith, and possibly the first ones including Ajunta Pall.

*puts Sidious above them all*

Originally posted by Dessel
[quote]The dark side of the Force was so strong in him that it was decaying his bodyquote]

Well there are two actual ways of looking at this:
1. Sidious was so strong in the dark side that it was decaying his body.
2. Sidious' will wasn't strong enough for him to maintain the dark side energies he was giving off.

No, there is only one way to look at it. When did will power have any measure of one's raw power? Please. Anakin's raw command of the Force is the greatest we've seen, and his will isn't exactly record breaking or absolute.

I'm also curious as to how the biological effects that the dark side had on Palpatine can be traced back to his will power. Given that Palpatine's greatest skill is not his extreme command of the dark side, but his immense intellect and brilliant mind - I fail to see how he could lack a strong will at all.

Especially when he was forced to shield his immense power and hatred for decades from the Jedi. That, to me, speaks of strong will. As well as his Force Storm technique required use of strong will as well.

One way to look at it. Palpatine's raw command of the dark side, and his deep practice of dark side techniques simply was too powerful for his body to contain.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So if Ludo was caught by surprise with attack X, he can't block attack Y? Have you ever wondered why NOBODY who possessed the amulet ever used it in a fight? The power of the amulet makes it difficult to control, so if someone relies on it in a fight, they'll get sliced by a sith sword or a saber. You saying because Ludo can't block a brick he can't block a blast is ridiculous, because we saw Yoda get shitkicked with force lightning, and the next time he absorbed it. Maybe that's not a good example because its the same attack but my point is, don't make assumptions you can't back up.

Sadow wasn't using the amulet. We've never seen him use the amulet which leads me to believe the ancient sith had a defense for every technique they developed, which is quite logical.

Okay, just listen to me, and make sense of it however you want. Ludo could, under normal circumstances, block that brick with the force, right? The reason he couldn't was because he got caught off guard. Now, in a fight to the death, what will do more damage, a brick, or a huge amulet blast? Even if Ludo had a defence against the blast, he wouldn't have gotten it up in time (seeing as how he couldn't get his defence for the brick up). It would make sense that the amulet blasts don't effect force users, because neither did that Sith spell of his that Exar later used. Unless Naga made a device that wouldn't work against a defenceless Sith on purpose...

It could simply be that the force blasts don't effect force users, but the amulet still increases your power in the dark side (by increasing your rage).
I figured this may be brought up (plus I don't want to ignore things just to try and prove a point):When Exar Kun used the amulet against Nadd's spirit, he wasn't necessarily using a blast (it would most likely pass through him anyway), but due to the amulet increasing his hatred (and thus power), he now was strong enough to take action against him.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, just listen to me, and make sense of it however you want. Ludo could, under normal circumstances, block that brick with the force, right? The reason he couldn't was because he got caught off guard. Now, in a fight to the death, what will do more damage, a brick, or a huge amulet blast? Even if Ludo had a defence against the blast, he wouldn't have gotten it up in time (seeing as how he couldn't get his defence for the brick up). It would make sense that the amulet blasts don't effect force users, because neither did that Sith spell of his that Exar later used. Unless Naga made a device that wouldn't work against a defenceless Sith on purpose...

It could simply be that the force blasts don't effect force users, but the amulet still increases your power in the dark side (by increasing your rage).
I figured this may be brought up (plus I don't want to ignore things just to try and prove a point):When Exar Kun used the amulet against Nadd's spirit, he wasn't necessarily using a blast (it would most likely pass through him anyway), but due to the amulet increasing his hatred (and thus power), he now was strong enough to take action against him.

Once again, the blast itself is tangible and affects anybody in its path. The only different between it and the blast of the AT-AT, is that it has no limits to its powers. It's based purely on the rage of the user.

You're either not getting what I'm saying or refusing to try and make sense of it.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
You're either not getting what I'm saying or refusing to try and make sense of it.

apparently im not getting what you're saying. You're saying that if he can't block a brick, then he definitely can't block an amulet blast. I'm saying he got caught off guard with the brick, and he has a defense for the amulet blasts. Ever wonder why he and Sadow wore two amulets? hm?

It would make sense that the amulet blasts don't effect force users, because neither did that Sith spell of his that Exar later used.

They're used on Massassi; if I remember correctly. Massassi are force users, and the blast works on them.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
apparently im not getting what you're saying. You're saying that if he can't block a brick, then he definitely can't block an amulet blast. I'm saying he got caught off guard with the brick, and he has a defense for the amulet blasts. Ever wonder why he and Sadow wore two amulets? hm?

A defence. Not an immunity. He didn't have time to put up a defence, seeing as how if he did, he wouldn't have been hit by the brick.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
A defence. Not an immunity. He didn't have time to put up a defence, seeing as how if he did, he wouldn't have been hit by the brick.

Ok so what is your point? The brick was a result of a force maneuver. What are you saying?

No. I am saying that someone who relies on technology or something else for the source of their power is weaker than someone who relies on nothing, and can perform feats on par with them.

Sadow required his technology to perform his feats. Thus, in natural, raw power, the likes of Luke and Sidious are far above him. I consider them more powerful, and by quite a bit.

That is not the point for VS. threads though. EVERYONE relies on something else for their power, the Ancient Sith just have an additional method to further increase their capabilities. It's not like people go around fighting naked. Look at Jango. He uses his gear to do all of his feats. Then look at Gallandro. All he uses is a blaster pistol. In a gunfight, Jango would OWN Gallandro because of his equipment. But if all they had were their blaster pistols (like if the Force users had no technology other than their lightsaber), Gallandro would stand a very good chance against Jango. The same is true for anything with the Ancient Sith vs. a non Ancient Sith. They will logically have gear with them.

With or without their technology, the Ancient Sith have knowledge of more powerful Force techniques than any of group of Force Users ever.

The only ones who could defeat Ragnos I would say are Sekot and Luke. DE Sidious is more powerful, but I don't think he could defeat Ragnos in one on one combat. Sidious' techniques were focused on leading much more than combat.

Incorrect.

Luke and Palpatine don't rely on technology for their powers. The only thing that Palpatine relied on was the lifeforce of the residents of Byss, and that was simply to maintain his life and health due to the incredible tolls that the dark side was taking on his body.

The Ancient Sith relied on technology because they could not replicate the feats themselves without the technology in question. Thus, the feats do not stem from their personal power, but from the power of the gear itself. Luke and Palpatine derive their abilities from their personal power, technique, and knowledge of the Force.

In natural power, Luke and Palpatine (by far) supercede the Ancient Sith and it is pointless to argue otherwise. There isn't any proof that the Sith (even Ragnos) have anything close to their abundance of raw power and/or potential.

The only ones who could defeat Ragnos I would say are Sekot and Luke. DE Sidious is more powerful, but I don't think he could defeat Ragnos in one on one combat. Sidious' techniques were focused on leading much more than combat.

Oh, yes, because Sith techniques are obviously used primarily for boosting one's leadership ability... please, Glentract. Palpatine's base of knowledge is broader and more plentiful than the Ancient Sith, and we have already proven that his raw power far exceeds them as well.

I do commend you, however, for finally consenting that his power his greater. However, though we can never truly and completely tell who would actually beat who in the context of a versus fight, nothing indicates that Ragnos would win in a fight with Palpatine.

Where the hell does everyone get this "Ancient Sith have so much more than any other Force User ever!" stuff? According to Veitch, he designed it so that Palpatine learned the secrets of the Ancients and invented his own techniques. And from what we've seen, he used them to rather greater extents.

The ancient Sith rely on technology almost exclusively. This is a demerit

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Where the hell does everyone get this "Ancient Sith have so much more than any other Force User ever!" stuff? According to Veitch, he designed it so that Palpatine learned the secrets of the Ancients and invented his own techniques. And from what we've seen, he used them to rather greater extents.

The ancient Sith rely on technology almost exclusively. This is a demerit

Yet everybody goes to the ancient sith to become exponentially more powerful.

Indeed. Sidious definately is better than old Marka. Though would Ragnos be able to take on someone like Revan, or is he more powerful than that?

I guess the logic on the ancient sith is "Oh well they havent shown anything and they used amulets so they must suck".