Saddam Hussein Sentenced to Death

Originally posted by Robtard
In theory your ideas sound "enlightened", but there are always exceptions to the rule. What about the murderers who are supposedly rehabilitated and released only to commit another murder? What then, stick them back in for further rehabilitation

yes

Originally posted by Robtard
or classify them as un-rehabitable and throw away the key?

no

Originally posted by Robtard
Well yes, that would be one reason as I have mentioned. If someone maliciously killed a loved one I would want that person dead, I would feel like a jackass denying others of what I would want myself. How can you not see a difference though? You do not have to agree with my reasoning but saying my need for "satisfaction" is no different than someone who kills for pleasure or personal gain is absurd.

why not? "because they did it first"? thats the only real footing you have in this debate and its weak, sorry to say.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So, you are saying there are reasons why you want someone else kolled? And you will even use your vote to make sure that people are killed? Hmm, I don't see how you are better than those people that are supposed to be executed, can you tell me again?

Yes, I am for capital punishment, If someone maliciously kills another person, I do feel they have forfeited their right to exist in society. If you cannot see the difference between a person you kills for pleasure or personal gain and a person who would want those people killed for their crimes they willfully committed, I am at a loss for words. You don't have to agree with capital punishment and a respect that, but claiming the two are the same is absurd.

I find this exceptionally funny coming from you Bardock42, you had previously said in another thread that people should be allowed to fight and kill each other in gladiator type arenas.

Originally posted by Robtard
If you cannot see the difference between a person you kills for pleasure or personal gain and a person who would want those people killed for their crimes they willfully committed, I am at a loss for words. You don't have to agree with capital punishment and a respect that, but claiming the two are the same is absurd.

hypocrisy. you would have someone killed for personal gain, as you have already admitted.

Originally posted by Robtard
If someone maliciously killed a loved one I would want that person dead, I would feel like a jackass denying others of what I would want myself.

you would want someone killed for personal satisfaction. doesnt make you evil, just human. however in the context of your stance in this debate it also makes you a hypocrite

Originally posted by PVS
yes

no

why not? "because they did it first"? thats the only real footing you have in this debate and its weak, sorry to say.

So where do you draw the line? In theory they could get out every decade or so and commit another murder if there is no line of 'beyond possible rehabilitation'.

Because they willfully did it first and they knew the consequences beforehand. I am not talking about capital punishment for the guy who accidentally lost control of his car and killed a pedestrian. I am talking about the murders who willfully and knowingly kill for pleasure or personal gain.

Originally posted by Robtard
Yes, I am for capital punishment, If someone maliciously kills another person, I do feel they have forfeited their right to exist in society. If you cannot see the difference between a person you kills for pleasure or personal gain and a person who would want those people killed for their crimes they willfully committed, I am at a loss for words. You don't have to agree with capital punishment and a respect that, but claiming the two are the same is absurd.

I find this exceptionally funny coming from you Bardock42, you had previously said in another thread that people should be allowed to fight and kill each other in gladiator type arenas.

I don't see a contradiction. To fight and risk your life on your own will and to get executed by the state are two rather different matters to me.

Hey, I might even agree with capital punishment...but I realize the hypocrisy that lies in killing someone...because they killed someone. It is obvious. There is no denying it. If you can accept it and deal with it, be for capital punishment for all I care.

Originally posted by Robtard
I am talking about the murders who willfully and knowingly kill for pleasure or personal gain.

as you would knowingly and willfully support the killing af a human being for personal satisfaction...revenge. as bardock says, support it if you wish. im not trying to paint you as evil for doing so, but acknowledge the painfully blatant hypocrisy rather than trying to paint it with false virtue.

Originally posted by PVS
hypocrisy. you would have someone killed for personal gain, as you have already admitted.

you would want someone killed for personal satisfaction. doesnt make you evil, just human. however in the context of your stance in this debate it also makes you a hypocrite

Funny how you'll label my views hypocritical because you can link 'John Doe' killing my father for the $50.00 in his pocket as being the same as me wanting 'John Doe' executed for killing my father without cause in the first place... But you cannot see the hypocrisy in being against the death penalty but admitting that if someone maliciously killed a loved one of yours you'd want them "tortured and then killed".

Maybe I am a hypocrite, but I do not see it. My "personal gain" in wanting revenge for being wronged is far different than if I went out and killed a few kids for pleasure(personal gain).

Originally posted by PVS
as you would knowingly and willfully support the killing af a human being for personal satisfaction...revenge. as bardock says, support it if you wish. im not trying to paint you as evil for doing so, but acknowledge the painfully blatant hypocrisy rather than trying to paint it with false virtue.

I am not speaking of virtues or taking the higher ground... And I do not see it as being hypocritical, I answered a similar question right above this one.

You should also specify the person I'd want killed is a murderer him/herself...

Originally posted by Robtard
But you cannot see the hypocrisy in being against the death penalty but admitting that if someone maliciously killed a loved one of yours you'd want them "tortured and then killed".

you are either blinded by your own passion in this debate or you are deliberatly warping my words. i hope its the first.

now, read my words which you so readily quoted again in their proper context and take their meaning as you have clearly missed it completely

:hint: i was stressing how i, an individual who would hypothetically have a thirst for revenge, would not be qualified at all in passing judgement in an impartial system. get it?

Originally posted by PVS
you are either blinded by your own passion in this debate or you are deliberatly warping my words. i hope its the first.

now, read my words which you so readily quoted again in their proper context and take their meaning as you have clearly missed it completely

:hint: i was stressing how i, an individual who would hypothetically have a thirst for revenge, would not be qualified at all in passing judgement in an impartial system. get it?

Warping and twisted words is not a tactic I use.

Alright then, I had previously said if a person where able to look passed being personally affected by the murderer and support the murderer's right to life, more power to them.

clever wording.

only its not about support of a murderers right to anything, but
support of a society enlightened past the point of maliciously killing others as punishment for malicious killing...accepting the responsibility for those criminals, and acknlowledging that they spring from the neglect of...us. society creates its own killers, they are not born spontainliously. part of accepting that responsibility is the will to fix a problem rather than kill them at a rate which simply will grow exponentially as our society continues to stagnate and create such an element.

to boil it all down to "what if he killed my father" is both petty and selfish and defies all that our system of justice was founded on. with that mentallity we may as well slip back into the dark ages where crime was intentionally met with punishment and vengeance.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't see a contradiction. To fight and risk your life on your own will and to get executed by the state are two rather different matters to me.

Hey, I might even agree with capital punishment...but I realize the hypocrisy that lies in killing someone...because they killed someone. It is obvious. There is no denying it. If you can accept it and deal with it, be for capital punishment for all I care.

One could argue that killing maliciously and knowing beforehand that the punishment for maliciously killing is death, would equate to willfully risking your own life.

I disagree with your hypocrisy assessment, if you do not care that I am for capital punishment, why debate with me in the first place?

Originally posted by Robtard
One could argue that killing maliciously and knowing beforehand that the punishment for maliciously killing is death, would equate to willfully risking your own life.

I disagree with your hypocrisy assessment, if you do not care that I am for capital punishment, why debate with me in the first place?

One could argue that, but it is wrong to do so. In one case they actively give up their right to live (under certain circumstances) ...in the other it would be passively and also involuntarily...

I do not debate with you about the pros and cons of capital punishment, although we can do that as well if you please. I am stating that to be for capital punishment is hypocritical, because it is. And I try to convince you to come to the same conclusion, since..well it's a fact.

Originally posted by PVS
clever wording.

only its not about support of a murderers right to anything, but rather
support of a society enlightened past the point of maliciously killing others as punishment for malicious killing, but rather accepting the responsibility for those criminals, and acknlowledging that they spring from the neglect of...us. society creates its own killers, they are not born spontainliously. part of accepting that responsibility is the will to fix a problem rather than kill them at a rate which simply will grow exponentially as our society continues to stagnate and create such an element.

to boil it all down to "what if he killed my father" is both petty and selfish and defies all that our system of justice was founded on. with that mentallity we may as well slip back into the dark ages where crime was intentionally met with punishment and vengeance.

I have to disagree with you there in at least some parts... It seems like you're shifting the blame, i.e. 'It's not John's fault he went out and killed a drug store clerk for the register money to feed his drug habit, it is society's fault for failing John in the first place'. To me, that is nothing more than a bunch of far fringe liberal crap. People for the most part need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Originally posted by Robtard
I have to disagree with you there in at least some parts... It seems like you're shifting the blame, i.e. 'It's not John's fault he went out and killed a drug store clerk for the register money to feed his drug habit, it is society's fault for failing John in the first place'. To me, that is nothing more than a bunch of far fringe liberal crap. People for the most part need to take responsibility for their own actions.

Yes, for example people that call for the killing of people that killed others. They should take responsibility in the death of every single person (be it a guilty or an innocent one) that got executed in their country.

Originally posted by Bardock42
One could argue that, but it is wrong to do so. In one case they actively give up their right to live (under certain circumstances) ...in the other it would be passively and also involuntarily...

I do not debate with you about the pros and cons of capital punishment, although we can do that as well if you please. I am stating that to be for capital punishment is hypocritical, because it is. And I try to convince you to come to the same conclusion, since..well it's a fact.

Involuntary? How so... If I go out and kill a guy for the money in his pocket, how is that involuntary?

Then thank you for trying to show me the error of my ways, I do not see it though.

Originally posted by Robtard
I have to disagree with you there in at least some parts... It seems like you're shifting the blame, i.e. 'It's not John's fault he went out and killed a drug store clerk for the register money to feed his drug habit, it is society's fault for failing John in the first place'. To me, that is nothing more than a bunch of far fringe liberal crap. People for the most part need to take responsibility for their own actions.

and that ^^^^ to me is intentional strawman bashing. rather than research the theory behind the modern system of justice and imprisonment, you have just shut your eyes and ears and cried "LIBERAL!!" well if "liberal crap" means "factual knowledge of history and modern western theory" then i guess im just full of liberal crap and you are clean as a whistle. i guess im done here 🙁

i thought you were above this

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, for example people that call for the killing of people that killed others. They should take responsibility in the death of every single person (be it a guilty or an innocent one) that got executed in their country.

I do not understand what you mean... Should I take responsibility or feel guilty for also wanting a car thief to spend time in jail?

Originally posted by Robtard
I do not understand what you mean... Should I take responsibility or feel guilty for also wanting a car thief to spend time in jail?

Yeah. Probably. But there is a difference between killing someone and doing the most humane thing while still protecting society.

Originally posted by Robtard
Involuntary? How so... If I go out and kill a guy for the money in his pocket, how is that involuntary?

Then thank you for trying to show me the error of my ways, I do not see it though.

No, the being killed is involuntarily. Like. The Gladiator would at any point have the right to step back from the contract. The person you want to execute is going to be executed regardless of his/her will.

Well, okay, you can really not see why it is hypocritical to kill someone because they killed someone? I mean..that's probably the Example I'd read when looking up hypocrisy in the dictionary, you know?

Originally posted by PVS
and that ^^^^ to me is intentional strawman bashing. rather than research the theory behind the modern system of justice and imprisonment, you have just shut your eyes and ears and cried "LIBERAL!!" well if "liberal crap" means "factual knowledge of history and modern western theory" then i guess im just full of liberal crap and you are clean as a whistle. i guess im done here 🙁

i thought you were above this

As far as I could tell, you were shifting the blame of peoples actions onto society failing them. To me that is crap... Sure, there are cases where poverty and/or other factors make people do what they normally wouldn't do, but in the end, people need to take responsibility for their own actions, especially actions they willfully commit. If society did in fact fail someone, that should and has be taken into consideration when determining the punishment for a crime.

I wasn't calling you "liberal crap" per se, but the notion that people shouldn't be held accountable for their own actions.