Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Cheney is definitely a man to be feared. He shoots his friends in the face. Imagine what he does to people who make him an enemy? I'm thinking something Deliverance-ish, or Kathy Bates in Misery.
I don't know if you're American, but Cheney is spending election day (today) hunting fear
Originally posted by Kinneary
It is. Under America's laws. Not Iraq's.
Originally posted by Robtard
Last time I heard, America wants little or no part of the ICC.
Originally posted by Robtard
Point being, America is not hanging Saddam, Iraq is.
Regardless of how you percieve the situation, hanigng is a cruel method of execution, utilized by nations such as Iran. And its going to be PUBLIC. Stalin's showtrials come to mind. The US has a say in this issue. This should be stopped.
Originally posted by Alliance
Regardless of how you percieve the situation, hanigng is a cruel method of execution, utilized by nations such as Iran. And its going to be PUBLIC. Stalin's showtrials come to mind. The US has a say in this issue. This should be stopped. [/B]
How you or I personally feel about hanging is irrelevant and we both know if America stepped in and forced Iraq to kill Saddam by lethal injection or stopped the execution people would be yelling that America is overstepping again.
Originally posted by RobtardThe Saddam trial statutes were modelled after the ICC because the ICC is an established and structured system for the trial of crimes against humanity. They do differ from the ICC in key ways however i.e. allowance for the death penalty.
How so? If Saddam's tribunal copy the ICC and America wants no part of the ICC, how is America controlling how Saddam is executed?
Iraqi systems established, financed etc by the U.S. executing Saddam Hussein, is execution by proxy. Ever heard of "extraordinary rendition"?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The Saddam trial statutes were modelled after the ICC because the ICC is an established and structured system for the trial of crimes against humanity. They do differ from the ICC in key ways however i.e. allowance for the death penalty.Iraqi systems established, financed etc by the U.S. executing Saddam Hussein, is execution by proxy. Ever heard of "extraordinary rendition"?
Yes I have and America did not send Saddam to Iraq so the U.S. could bypass due process. He is an Iraqi, was captured in Iraq and is being tried under Iraqi law.
Originally posted by Robtard
How you or I personally feel about hanging is irrelevant and we both know if America stepped in and forced Iraq to kill Saddam by lethal injection or stopped the execution people would be yelling that America is overstepping again.
I don't think thats true. Its well know that the US has both hands deep in Iraqi politics, but it means that the Iraqi regime has no political legitimacy. The only legitimate power in Iraq besides the militias is the US.
Perhaps we should stand up for our own principles. We're supposed to be this great nation, yet we have no problem with public hangings?
Originally posted by Alliance
I don't think thats true. Its well know that the US has both hands deep in Iraqi politics, but it means that the Iraqi regime has no political legitimacy. The only legitimate power in Iraq besides the militias is the US.Perhaps we should stand up for our own principles. We're supposed to be this great nation, yet we have no problem with public hangings?
We are a great nation, sure we have flaws, but what nation doesn't? Like I said before, if America imposed it's will, people would be screaming bloody murder. Other countries friendly with America use hanging as their form of capital punishment, should we step in there too? On that note, if America where to ever abolish capital punishment, should America then impose it's will on the 70+ countries that permit capital punishment?
There is a differnece between imposing you system on others and following it yourself. If the US can't follow its own system, what are we doing invading other nations and setting up governments (like we did with Saddam)?
The US is clearly promoting this as a shwotrial. They are allowing hanging because it will give the Iraqis blood and i t makes a good news story. As a citizen, I find that disgusting.
Originally posted by RobtardThe government certainly timed when his sentence was released: I learned that the actualy verdict has not been handed down yet, it won't be ready until Thursday. So why was the sentence released on Sunday? Whether or not we 'control' the Iraqi government, we do control all of the official news comnig out of there as its occupier, so the timing is suspicious, to say the least
How so? If Saddam's tribunal copy the ICC and America wants no part of the ICC, how is America controlling how Saddam is executed?
Originally posted by Alliance
The reason is there are much bigger issues in Iraq than Saddam. Its like finding a 5 USD bill in the middle of a forest fire. The word has bigger issues in Iraq.
Exactly, hence the fact the isn't going to change anything over their. The issues are bigger then Saddam. It isn't going to take the wind out of anybodies sails, though if might encourage a few more.
However, its still immensely disturbing. Why the hell don't we just stone him to death. I could have sworn hanging was "cruel and unusual."
Definitely - but then most death penalties are viewed as cruel and unusual. It came to a head recently in Australia (we haven't had a death penalty here for a long time... though if I remember legal studies correctly they never banned it in cases of treason) when an Australian citizen was hung over seas on charges of drug smuggling.
Which doesn't detract from his point. Iraq is supposed to be forming it's own government. Are we supposed to step in every time they don't do something we want them to?
It seems to have been doing that so far. And arguably during the formative stage of the laws the coalition could have asked them to consider dropping the death penalty altogether - make Iraq a no-dp zone - which would make special in the Middle East.
I'd have thought after the things Saddam had got up to with torture and the death penalty a nation would want to scrap such abusable powers and punishments quick smart.
We are a great nation, sure we have flaws, but what nation doesn't? Like I said before, if America imposed it's will, people would be screaming bloody murder. Other countries friendly with America use hanging as their form of capital punishment, should we step in there too? On that note, if America where to ever abolish capital punishment, should America then impose it's will on the 70+ countries that permit capital punishment?
Looking at the countries that allow the DP... well, it isn't really a club most nations want to be a part of. And it isn't so alien. I mean a simple question - does the US have a history of using economic benefits to bring nations around to its way of thinking?
Yes, but then so do many others. You make it sound outrageous that the US might try and influence the legal/political nature of another nation when it has been going on for a long, long time, and when other nations (usually Western) have been doing the same.
It seems to have been doing that so far. And arguably during the formative stage of the laws the coalition could have asked them to consider dropping the death penalty altogether - make Iraq a no-dp zone - which would make special in the Middle East.I'd have thought after the things Saddam had got up to with torture and the death penalty a nation would want to scrap such abusable powers and punishments quick smart.
Originally posted by Robtard
By that rational, sentencing somehow to 10 years in prison for rape would be "revenge" based too.
No it is not. Revenge is an 'eye for an eye' concept, in which the ''justice'' lowers to the level of the purpotrator and the former initially becomes the latter.
Justice and revenge are not the same. Do not confuse them.
Originally posted by Kinneary
Which doesn't detract from his point. Iraq is supposed to be forming it's own government. Are we supposed to step in every time they don't do something we want them to?It can't be both ways. We can let them form their own government and then turn around and say that they have to do thing our way.
Iraq has a government? I wasn't aware. Since the US has complete military autonomy in the nation, I find it difficult to percieve Iraq as having its own government. Not to mention, real democracies are built from the ground up, not from the top down by foreign powers.
Its not both ways. The Saddam trial has been a US dominated process. Besides, the Middle east could use a little lesson in the basic rights of man.
Originally posted by 2-D
I SAY LET THE MURDERIN PECIE OF SHIT HANG hang
Originally posted by PVS
YEAH!!!! lets feed him slowly into a woodchipper feet-first!!! *salivates*