Originally posted by rotiart
No prep? Loki wins. Loki's powerful... but Loki's magic has been able to amp Surfer to incredible levels before...I'd put Loki > Dr. Strange...
and Dr. STrange > Dr. Doom.if you gave them prep.. doom wins though. not very many beat doom in the prep game.
If Thor>Loki, then not a chance in HELL Loki>Dr. Strange.
Originally posted by rotiart
No prep? Loki wins. Loki's powerful... but Loki's magic has been able to amp Surfer to incredible levels before...I'd put Loki > Dr. Strange...
and Dr. STrange > Dr. Doom.if you gave them prep.. doom wins though. not very many beat doom in the prep game.
Originally posted by batdude123
If Thor>Loki, then not a chance in HELL Loki>Dr. Strange.
Actually Loki has been displayed as being more powerful than Dr. Strange, Marvel has even went so far as to have Loki kill Strange.
Now with prep Loki I put Loki above Classic Thor, seeing as with prep Loki resurrected Surtur and took over all of Asgard.
Now I know Strange is powerful, but I sometime believe he's as overrated as the Flash.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Actually Loki has been displayed as being more powerful than Dr. Strange, Marvel has even went so far as to have Loki kill Strange.Now with prep Loki I put Loki above Classic Thor, seeing as with prep Loki resurrected Surtur and took over all of Asgard.
Now I know Strange is powerful, but I sometime believe he's as overrated as the Flash.
Based upon average showings for Dr. Strange, uh... yeah he's above Loki.
Stephen is skyfather level.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Well based upon his average showings against Loki, uh... yeah he's not.
Would you argue that Superman is above Darkseid?
Dr. Strange is the same person who fights abstracts for a living. The same guy who stalemated the INFINITY GUANTLET for awhile.
Don't even TRY to tell me you think Loki is above Strange.
Originally posted by batdude123
Would you argue that Superman is above Darkseid?Dr. Strange is the same person who fights abstracts for a living. The same guy who stalemated the INFINITY GUANTLET for awhile.
Don't even TRY to tell me you think Loki is above Strange.
No, But I would argue that Loki is above or equal to Strange.
And Loki is the same person who has defied Odin on numerous occasions, resurrected Surtur, and even taken over all of Asgard. We can do this all day, it's fine by me.
I don't have to tell you, I can point you to some issues were Loki either outright defeats Strange or simply kills him.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
No, But I would argue that Loki is above or equal to Strange.
You would. 🙄
Nothing Loki has shown (apart from their encounters) even comes close to what Strange has done.
If Loki beats Strange (w/o any prep) then it's just straight up bonified PIS.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
And Loki is the same person who has defied Odin on numerous occasions, resurrected Surtur, and even taken over all of Asgard. We can do this all day, it's fine by me.
Nothing Strange couldn't easily do with a little prep time. Again, we're talking about a man who beats on abstract levels all the time. Can you say the same about Loki?
Oh, and NOTHING Loki has shown is even close to stalemating AW with the IG for awhile.
Originally posted by Soujaboy
I don't have to tell you, I can point you to some issues were Loki either outright defeats Strange or simply kills him.
I refer back to the "Superman vs. Darkseid" point.
I would like to point out, that Strange does indeed beat some tough guys, but Loki isn't a hero, Loki isn't in as many comics.
Loki does have the tools to fight Strange. He has done so.
Strange is written good (maybe a little too good) when he fights people like Shuma Gorath, but when he comes to fight people quite a bit down in the food chain, he doesn't do as well.
About Darkseid, I thought those were avatars...
Originally posted by bigbran
I would like to point out, that Strange does indeed beat some tough guys, but Loki isn't a hero, Loki isn't in as many comics.
So?
Originally posted by bigbran
Loki does have the tools to fight Strange. He has done so.
And apparently Alpha Flight can beat Galactus. They HAVE done so.
Originally posted by bigbran
Strange is written good(maybe a little too good) when he fights people like Shuma Gorath,
Dormammu, LT, AW with the IG, Galactus, Eternity, Baron Mordo, Umar, Nightmare, Death, Stannish, Mephisto, etc. etc.
Originally posted by bigbran
but when he comes to fight people quite a bit down in the food chain, he doesn't do as well.
Like who?
Originally posted by bigbran
About Darkseid, I thoguht those were avatars...
Okay... how about Genis-Velle losing to Atlas? Or Karnak owning Silver Surfer? Or Spider-man owning Firelord? etc. etc.
That work better for ya?
Originally posted by batdude123Heros get written a little better than villains, in case you haven't noticed, especially the ones who don't appear in every comic.
So?
Originally posted by batdude123How many times have they done so?
And apparently Alpha Flight can beat Galactus. They HAVE done so.
Originally posted by batdude123"When he fights people like..."
Dormammu, LT, AW with the IG, Galactus, Eternity, Baron Mordo, Umar, Nightmare, Death, Stannish, Mephisto, etc. etc.
Originally posted by batdude123Hulk, Namor, Juggernaut, etc.
Like who?
Originally posted by batdude123We were talking about more than one time deals here.
Okay... how about Genis-Velle losing to Atlas? Or Karnak owning Silver Surfer? Or Spider-man owning Firelord? etc. etc.
That work better for ya?
Originally posted by bigbran
Heros get written a little better than villains, in case you haven't noticed, especially the ones who don't appear in every comic.
"Heroes get written a little better than villains" is no excuse. Loki just isn't as good as Strange. Period.
Originally posted by bigbran
How many times have they done so?
As far as my understanding, Loki has beaten Strange, more than once.
Also a weak Galactus.
It doesn't matter. Galactus loses to a shit load of people who aren't on his level.
Originally posted by bigbran
"When he fights people like..."
Do I really need a list for people to understand what I was talking about?
Apparently you do if you think Loki has a chance against Strange in a non PIS fight.
Originally posted by bigbran
Hulk, Namor, Juggernaut, etc.
Really anyone lower than skyfather.
Namor busting out of the bands of Cytorrak while Strange was attending to other business is not a loss.
When have Hulk or Juggernaut beaten Strange?
Originally posted by bigbran
[BWe were talking about more than one time deals here.
Superman has beaten Darkseid more than once (avatars), however what your saying isn't really a comparison. [/B]
Actually, one of Superman's victories was after the "avatar" retcon.
What about Galactus' continual jobbing to lesser foes? We still don't put them on their level.
Strange>>>Loki
Originally posted by batdude123Ok then, how many times has Loki been beaten other than Thor?
"Heroes get written a little better than villains" is no excuse. Loki just isn't as good as Strange. Period.
Originally posted by batdude123That's because he is a whipping boy for heroes.
It doesn't matter. Galactus loses to a shit load of people who aren't on his level.
Originally posted by batdude123What is non pis Strange?
Apparently you do if you think Loki has a chance against Strange in a non PIS fight.
Originally posted by batdude123Was it not doing as well against lower levels?
Namor busting out of the bands of Cytorrak while Strange was attending to other business is not a loss.
Originally posted by batdude123I'm pretty sure Hulk has KOed Strange.
When have Hulk or Juggernaut beaten Strange?
Originally posted by batdude123Shouldn't Darkseid's ret-con be continuous?
Actually, one of Superman's victories was after the "avatar" retcon.
Anyways, he's Superman, he's Darkseid.
Jobber aura vs recent super jobber... you put them together.
It's just like Loki and Thor, Loki will almost always lose to Thor, just like recent Darkseid will lose to Superman (maybe win once or twice).
Originally posted by batdude123Galactus has somewhat of an excuse:
What about Galactus' continual jobbing to lesser foes? We still don't put them on their level.
What is Strange's? Do good against higher tiers to abstracts, but job to lower tiers?
Originally posted by batdude123Still, like I said before, where is Strange in power (average)?
Strange>>>Loki
Originally posted by batdude123
You would. 🙄Nothing Loki has shown (apart from their encounters) even comes close to what Strange has done.
If Loki beats Strange (w/o any prep) then it's just straight up bonified PIS.
Nothing Strange couldn't easily do with a little prep time. Again, we're talking about a man who beats on abstract levels all the time. Can you say the same about Loki?
Oh, and NOTHING Loki has shown is even close to stalemating AW with the IG for awhile.
I refer back to the "Superman vs. Darkseid" point.
His apperances are also a lot more limited than Stranges, but when he does appear he cleans house.
Like I said, Loki has Stranges number. Loki has no only defeated Strange on a couple occasions, but he has also killed Strange.
Something Strange has yet to do, so who's to say?
You act as if Strange just gos in demolishing abstracts. He doesn't, and most of the time he requaries massive amounts of outside help to challenge his more powerful foes. When I say outside help I mean that magic artifacts he manages to come by. Like when Strange was only able to challenge King Thor after he was given an artifact by a pantheon of skyfathers to negate the Odin Force.
Don't forget to mention the fact that Strange didn't stalemate the IG under his own power. He had a number of powerful artifacts to back him.
I refer back to "Loki has already once killed Strange" point.
Originally posted by bigbran
Ok then, how many times has Loki been beaten other than Thor?
By Odin and Surtur. But he really hasn't faced many other people besides Asgardian related characters.
Originally posted by bigbran
That's because he is a whipping boy for heroes.
He also wins quite a lot too, but that isn't brought up quite as much on these forums as his losses are.
Do you think that makes his defeats any less embarrassing?
Originally posted by bigbran
What is non pis Strange?
Depends where Strange gets ranked.
If we are talking about IG Strange, then of course Loki gets raped.
Based on "average showings," Strange is actually skyfather level. If we go by his best showings, he's low abstract level. If we go by his low showings, he's herald level. You pick.
Originally posted by bigbran
Was it not doing as well against lower levels?
I also thought that Namor repelled him out of his mind, or something to do with minds.
That I don't know. However, it's not like his average showings have him working to beat these types of characters. That's very much indeed PIS. Written correctly, he'd down Namor with a frickin' wave of his hand.
Originally posted by bigbran
I'm pretty sure Hulk has KOed Strange.
Juggernaut has fought him (I forget how it turned out) but it was either, Juggernaut beating him, or stalemating him, still not doing as well as he does against higher tiers.
The above post applies to this as well.
Originally posted by bigbran
Shouldn't Darkseid's ret-con be continuous?
I mean, if he has used avatars in the past, why would he just stop after he had admitted to using them? It doesn't make sense.Anyways, he's Superman, he's Darkseid.
Jobber aura vs recent super jobber... you put them together.
It's just like Loki and Thor, Loki will almost always lose to Thor, just like recent Darkseid will lose to Superman (maybe win once or twice).
Are you saying Loki JOBS to Thor?
Originally posted by bigbran
Galactus has somewhat of an excuse:
Being hungry.
That's really NO excuse for the calibur of people he's lost to in the past.
Originally posted by bigbran
What is Strange's? Do good against higher tiers to abstracts, but job to lower tiers?
That's not even close to being the majority of his showings though. They're PIS.
Originally posted by bigbran
Still, like I said before, where is Strange in power (average)?
Don't get me wrong, he would probaby lose to Strange, but Strange is quite inconsistent.
Probably skyfather level.
Strange would whollup Loki.