His opinions are not supported by all over here!
Your opinion isn't supported by anyone, really. So, once again, enough with your "know-it-all" attitude.
Just giving conclusions is not enough. Anyways! it's his arguement and not yours so stop pin-pointing me that to whom I should argue with!Did I used some harsh words against you?
We are just discussing right?
Your cocky, jackass approach to debating with me isn't working. Quit acting like you know everything, or what you say is fact, and we'll be fine.
Suddenly you put Revan below all others! huh!You can't stick to a single point can you?
See, now this is what makes me think that you're stupid. READ (!). No one cares about your opinion. So instead of tossing your non-existent weight around here, pay attention to people who know what the hell they're doing.
When did I say that Revan > everybody in knowledge? Answer: I never did. I said it was a personal opinion that I'd put Revan as better than Sidious or Yoda. Doesn't mean he knows everything they do.
And now "Force Lightening" can kill Revan? Which can be blocked by Light Saber?
Once again: quit being a jackass.
Sidious blew Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hand in RotS.
Revan's knowledge is stated to be greater then all of the Jedi and Sith in KOTOR period. He could even manipulate Dark Side for his use and this is not enough evidence for you?
KotoR period IS NOT the PT period. Point freakin' moot.
Yoda despite his 800 years of experience could not defeat Dooku and Sidious? right?
He forced Dooku to flee Geonosis, and then gave the Count an ass beating on Vjun.
He stalemated Sidious because Sidious is just that much more powerful than Dooku.
I believe that Dooku is superior to Traya in Light Saber Skills.But he needs time to counter many Light Sabers that Traya will pit against him?
And at that point, Traya can take advantage. Is this hard to understand?
Third example of you being - guess what? A jackass. Is it hard for you to understand that "more sabers doesn't always mean harder time". Anakin used two against Dooku on Geonosis. Didn't stop Dooku from disarming him, and giving him an ass beating.
Now you are just assuming that what Vader can do agianst Malak
Pfft yeah... like you aren't assuming...
Dooku was an old man when fought against Anakin in ROTS. Anakin was young and more agile and was also an experienced Duelist and had fought Dooku before to understand his style of combat. So, Anakin had better chance to win that second fight and he did.
Dooku was an old man who used the Force to "wear his age better than most people half of his age". Sorry. Don't know many eighty year olds who can kick a twenty year old (Anakin) in the chest and knock him back several feet, into a wall. Well, guess what? Dooku did that.
Dooku's experience >>>>>>>> Anakin's experience.
Guess what? Anakin's raw power >>>>>>>> Dooku's raw power. Anakin was all over him, which is why he won.
And you forgot to note that Dooku actually did not used his force powers against Anakin during the duel in ROTS. He was over-confident!
Um... Dooku didn't have a chance once Anakin got pissed off.
Malak was young my friend. He was also wise and powerful and an experienced Duelist and he was also physically stronger then pre-suit Vader.
Really? Doubt it. Size =/= strength in Star Wars. I believe Yoda is the author of a good quote on the subject: "size matters not". On a side note, he must have been a pimp of a Jedi Master.
Anakin had no raw power and would rush over his opponents. A technique that worked over OLD Dooku but not on Obi-Wan (who was not even as powerful as Dooku was and got repeatedly pawned by him).
"Anakin had no raw power".
That sums up your intelligence quite nicely.
So, what makes you think that Anakin's technique would work over Malak.
Given that Anakin's raw power >>>> Malak's, and Anakin is better than Dooku (who is better than Malak)... I could see him taking this.
You need to get out of this "Anakin Saber Skills better then all" mentality.
You need to get out of this "I can tell people what they need to get out of, because I'm a hard badass" mentality.
What makes you think that Malak would do the same mistake that Dooku did against Anakin?
Yeah. Because Malak doesn't have a reputation for being an arrogant brute...
Now you have started insults?
When I've been civil, quite nicely, and have asked you to stop REPEATEDLY (!) on various threads, and you continue not to, and you insult my intelligence (and that of others) by thinking you're Mr. Barry Badass, yes, it wears on my patience.
He was defeated by Revan because many believed that only Revan could take him down.
Guess what? That doesn't make sense at all. He was defeated by Revan because Revan was better than him. Not unlike Anakin.
Obi-Wan bested Vader because he was more experienced and not as arrogant as Anakin was!
Obi-Wan bested Anakin because his lightsaber form allowed him to grapple with Anakin's lightsaber form, but Obi-Wan was forced to constantly give ground, because even a young, defensive duelist like himself (with more experience) couldn't contend with Anakin's power. And, to top it off, Obi-Wan knew Anakin better than he knew the back of his own hand.
Do you think that Yoda, Mace and Sidious could not defeat him?
I was using your own logic.
Well! ROTJ Luke showed us that mighty Vader could be defeated as well.
By someone of raw power, and especially when Vader is conflicted about fighting his son.
And Vader's agility and mobility was some what limited by his cyborg suit.
But his experience, knowledge, and Force powers increased. Fair trade.
Check out the Dooku/Malak topic, then... Sorry if I have comprehended the use of the Search function and you have not.
Are you deliberately trying to be stupid? The `consensus` can never be used in a debate; insofar as it's just a bastardised appeal to majority in most cases. Either you post information here, or you shut the **** up. Period.
If you're as dumb as a brick, I don't care how strong you are. you're still a brick.
You've basically twisted my words, insofar as I used Anakin as an example of what I meant. Anakin isn't exactly a thinker, but he's still powerful.
or are you saying Leatherface is a force to be reckoned with because he's got a chainsaw? Well, let's put him against another, not insanely retarded guy with a chainsaw. Who will win?
This was such an obvious strawman. You've twisted my argument, not even attempted to reply to the main point; then tried to smash it down. Guess what? Malak isn't indicated to be stupid or an imbecile. The most anyone comments on him is that he made rash decisions, or that Revan eclipsed him in intelligence.
Yes, it is annoying. Maybe you should look in other topics for info and if these things have been discussed before. You might learn something.
Guess what? The onus is upon you to transplant that information here. I'm not gallavanting through threads just to find some obscure information, or to see that the `consensus was` et cetera.
Actually, this is fairly well answered and rebutted in my first post. Why don't you stop spouting out that `0mg t3h c0ns3nsuS w4s!!111` and actually provide information in this thread.
Escape81, I can resort to insulting as well. Don't forget this but I will be civil for now.
Originally posted by Escape81
Your opinion isn't supported by anyone, really. So, once again, enough with your "know-it-all" attitude.
Originally posted by Escape81
Your cocky, jackass approach to debating with me isn't working. Quit acting like you know everything, or what you say is fact, and we'll be fine.
Originally posted by Escape81
See, now this is what makes me think that you're stupid. READ (!). No one cares about your opinion. So instead of tossing your non-existent weight around here, pay attention to people who know what the hell they're doing.
You might be an old member here but that does not means that you know better then all.
Originally posted by Escape81
When did I say that Revan > everybody in knowledge? Answer: I never did. I said it was a personal opinion that I'd put Revan as better than Sidious or Yoda. Doesn't mean he knows everything they do.
I put him on par with them.
Originally posted by Escape81
Once again: quit being a jackass.Sidious blew Yoda's lightsaber right out of his hand in RotS.
Revan also wears special suit that might have some defenses of its own.
Originally posted by Escape81
KotoR period IS NOT the PT period. Point freakin' moot.
Point not moot.
Originally posted by Escape81
He forced Dooku to flee Geonosis, and then gave the Count an ass beating on Vjun.He stalemated Sidious because Sidious is just that much more powerful than Dooku.
But some said that Dooku wanted to flee in-order to safe-guard the secrets of "Death Star".
Originally posted by Escape81
Third example of you being - guess what? A jackass. Is it hard for you to understand that "more sabers doesn't always mean harder time". Anakin used two against Dooku on Geonosis. Didn't stop Dooku from disarming him, and giving him an ass beating.
have you forgotten the final fight in KOTOR II? or have you not played KOTOR II?
Perhaps! you don't even know what I am talking about!
Originally posted by Escape81
Pfft yeah... like you aren't assuming...
We are not the creators of Star Wars characters.
Originally posted by Escape81
Dooku was an old man who used the Force to "wear his age better than most people half of his age". Sorry. Don't know many eighty year olds who can kick a twenty year old (Anakin) in the chest and knock him back several feet, into a wall. Well, guess what? Dooku did that.Dooku's experience >>>>>>>> Anakin's experience.
Guess what? Anakin's raw power >>>>>>>> Dooku's raw power. Anakin was all over him, which is why he won.
Anakin used "anger" to influence his duel potential against Dooku who is an old man by that time and was not as agile as he would be in his younger age, so Anakin over-powered him.
Originally posted by Escape81
Um... Dooku didn't have a chance once Anakin got pissed off.
Originally posted by Escape81
Really? Doubt it. Size =/= strength in Star Wars. I believe Yoda is the author of a good quote on the subject: "size matters not". On a side note, he must have been a pimp of a Jedi Master.
Bigger Size does not necessarily means more strength. But "Size does Matter" theory also exists.
Originally posted by Escape81
"Anakin had no raw power".That sums up your intelligence quite nicely.
It has nothing to do with Force Knowledge, experience or Saber skills. But Raw Power can have an impact on Saber Skills.
Anakin used "anger" to boost his Saber Skills.
"Anger" is not a sign of "Raw Power".
Originally posted by Escape81
Given that Anakin's raw power >>>> Malak's, and Anakin is better than Dooku (who is better than Malak)... I could see him taking this.
Malak's physical strength is much greater then that of Anakin, so he has "Raw Power" at his disposal.
Anakin's "anger" might be greater then that of Malak, so he might hold some advantage in pushing back Malak in a Saber Duel but still not enough to guarantee a victory.
Anakin might even take on Malak after a long duel but Malak would not just rely on his duel potentail. Because Malak is young and physically stronger then Dooku so he can manage saber fight better then Dooku.
Originally posted by Escape81
You need to get out of this "I can tell people what they need to get out of, because I'm a hard badass" mentality.
Originally posted by Escape81
Yeah. Because Malak doesn't have a reputation for being an arrogant brute...[/QOUTE]
And so does Anakin or Pre-suit Vader. Point moot here!If Malak and Dooku can commit mistakes then Anakin can also commit mistakes and he did one in his fight against Obi-Wan and lost.
[QUOTE=7751629]Originally posted by Escape81
When I've been civil, quite nicely, and have asked you to stop REPEATEDLY (!) on various threads, and you continue not to, and you insult my intelligence (and that of others) by thinking you're Mr. Barry Badass, yes, it wears on my patience.
You are accustomed to what you say and believe and thats it. Pointing a fingure on others is easy but the rest of fingures point back on us as well.
Originally posted by Escape81
Guess what? That doesn't make sense at all. He was defeated by Revan because Revan was better than him. Not unlike Anakin.
Because Anakin is not as powerful as Revan, unless you believe otherwise!
Originally posted by Escape81
Obi-Wan bested Anakin because his lightsaber form allowed him to grapple with Anakin's lightsaber form, but Obi-Wan was forced to constantly give ground, because even a young, defensive duelist like himself (with more experience) couldn't contend with Anakin's power. And, to top it off, Obi-Wan knew Anakin better than he knew the back of his own hand.
Anakin lost because he was solely relying on "Anger" and forgot that "Obi-Wan was not an old man like Dooku" and was also being over-confident but he got his ass handed to him very well.
Originally posted by Escape81
By someone of raw power, and especially when Vader is conflicted about fighting his son.
And yes! I believe that Vader was little less enthusiastic in kiling his son and this was demonstrated by his "defensive approach" in that fight.
I said this before.
Originally posted by Escape81
But his experience, knowledge, and Force powers increased. Fair trade. [/B]
But you also said that more anger and higher speed can allow you to overwhelm any opponent regardless of the capabilities of that opponent.
Pre-Suit Anakin did not had enough strength but had more anger and agility actually.
Originally posted by Nikkolas
I believe it was the New Essential Chronology that said he was.
No, it was the novelisation. And Dessel or S W Legend or whoever said so, it IS canon, no matter how YOU think about it, it is! And yes it is, read the part where Yoda fight's Sidious in the senate chamber, it does say he is the most powerful sith in history!
Originally posted by kamikz
No, it was the novelisation. And Dessel or S W Legend or whoever said so, it IS canon, no matter how YOU think about it, it is! And yes it is, read the part where Yoda fight's Sidious in the senate chamber, it does say he is the most powerful sith in history!
I believe that outcome of fight can be decided by many factors. Even pure luck can fetch victory in some circumstances.
But being most powerful does not means being invincible.
We all know that what happened to Marka Ragnos!
Whoa, sorry Escape, I shouldn't have to be an issue to debate. It distracts from the fight. If it's a problem I'll say why I think the ROTS team wins, although, it might just be restating arguments.
(All quotes from the ROTS novelization)
First of all, these Sith are from a more powerful era. "The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new."
Sidious > Revan
"Lord of all Sith"
He's tied with Yoda, who is better than Revan. "The avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known..."
Can lift up 3 senate pods with ease.
Owned 3 of the best swordsmen in a few seconds.
Revan has never shown us anything near the raw power of Sidious, and has had much less time and a master not as powerful to guide him and focus that power.
Tyranus > Traya.
Tyranus put up a good fight with the force against Yoda, and could resist any force attacks from Traya long enough to get into melee. There he would stomp her in under 7 seconds, easily. As for levitating 3 lightsabers, Tyranus has fought(and crushed) Greivous, Asajj, and Sora, who all have multiple lightsabers.
"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall..."
Vader > Malak
Malak is a moron, and Vader is hot headed.
Vader has way more raw power than Malak.
"The thunderstorm that was Skywalker in the Force boiled with sudden power."
"Mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step."
"...wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing-"
"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger."
"Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. "
"That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze."
Dooku was scared shitless of what would happen if Anakin broke through the boundaries of his Jedi training, which is what happens in this fight.
Anakin gets stronger the longer he fights.
"Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless...Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke. "
Meh. I don't feel like posting anything else.
Well both teams can win but it depends upon who takes who first.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
First of all, these Sith are from a more powerful era. "The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new."
Some argue that Sidious got a huge chunck of his knowledge of various Dark Side powers from holocrons of Ancient Sith.
And these so called modern Sith Lords (like their predecessors) display same kind of arrogance, anger, beliefs and purposes.
Like all other powerful Sith Lords before Sidious, Sidious also wanted the same thing - "To rule the galaxy and to destroy the Jedi".
Every damn Sith Lord had same thing in his/her mind.
So, I don't understand that what has actually changed?
If you say that modern Sith Lords had more knowledge of the force then their predecessors, then sadly the tales of "Expanded Universe" is proving you 100% wrong.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Sidious > Revan
"Lord of all Sith"
He's tied with Yoda, who is better than Revan. "The avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known..."
Can lift up 3 senate pods with ease.
Owned 3 of the best swordsmen in a few seconds.
Revan has never shown us anything near the raw power of Sidious, and has had much less time and a master not as powerful to guide him and focus that power.
Here are some achievements of Revan:
- Revan became "Dark Lord of the Sith" and created a huge Sith Empire. This achievement alone rivals that of Sidious.
- He survived a betrayal that was impossible to survive. A shot fired by a large Laser Canon of an advanced Sith Cruiser. How many can survive this shot? I cannot say because Revan took a direct hit and his mind was almost destroyed but he was still alive. Very amazing indeed.
- Then he killed an entire army of Sith on Star Forge. To accomplish this, you need to be very very powerful in the force and also be superb in all other aspects as well. And this achievement shows that Revan was no less powerful then Yoda.
- He also killed a very powerful Sith Lord "SF powered Malak", whose powers were heavily boosted by Star Forge.
- Star Forge was a dangerous weapon to depend upon and yet Malak was able to take advantage from its power, which is an amazing achievement and so could have Revan. But Malak indicated that SF powered Revan would be "invincible". Now imagine Revan's power.
- Revan also demonstrated "Force Storm" on Lehon planet and killed large number of enemies in a single attack with it.
- Revan alone was nominated as a "Prodigcal Knight" by master Vandar, which was due to his immense skills in Saber Combat.
- And Revan alone was a formidable opponent for an entire Sith Empire that was capable enough to destroy entire worlds and Revan demonstrated his immense power in the Star Forge itself. Even his "SF powered enemies" (Bastilla and Malak) could not stop him.
- Revan was even heavily appreciated by his Mandelorian enemies, who seldom respect anyone which is noticeable.
Now, all these achievements are not enough in your eyes?
Do you think that Revan achieved this all due to just his Saber Skills?
No Sir! Revan was actually very strong in the force and he had immense knowledge of both Dark Side and Light Side powers.
These are reasons that Revan is so much respected and considered to be very powerful. His achievements speak volumes about his power.
And the reason that the Revan's reign as a Sith Lord is short lived is because of betrayal. Stop blaming Revan for his short-lived reign!
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Tyranus > Traya.
Tyranus put up a good fight with the force against Yoda, and could resist any force attacks from Traya long enough to get into melee. There he would stomp her in under 7 seconds, easily. As for levitating 3 lightsabers, Tyranus has fought(and crushed) Greivous, Asajj, and Sora, who all have multiple lightsabers.
"He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall..."
Traya after distracting Dooku with her "force powered light sabers" will not just weight for him to end that challenge, She will try to take advantage from this distraction and this can be end for Dooku.
I don't need to say more!
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Vader > Malak
Malak is a moron, and Vader is hot headed.
Vader has way more raw power than Malak.
"The thunderstorm that was Skywalker in the Force boiled with sudden power."
"Mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step."
"...wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing-"
"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger."
"Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade. "
"That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze."
Dooku was scared shitless of what would happen if Anakin broke through the boundaries of his Jedi training, which is what happens in this fight.
Anakin gets stronger the longer he fights.
"Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless...Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke. "Meh. I don't feel like posting anything else.
Anakin's anger fueled him and also his potential with the Light Saber, and add to this his young age, more agility and already exceptional Light Saber skills, he proved to be too much for an old and physically weak Dooku.
This is what we could easily notice in that fight in ROTS.
Now, Malak is a totally different case!
Malak (unlike) Dooku is young, physically very strong and is more agile.
His Light Saber skills are also very good (just like that of Dooku) but he is not physically weak and old.
Old age always takes toll on your body.
If you are so fond of mentioning Anakin's victory over Dooku, then you also need to look what happened in case of fight against Obi-Wan, who was young.
I know that Obi-Wan knew Anakin very well but so did Anakin knew Obi-Wan more then enough to fight him. This point is already moot because of both cases cancelling the effect of each other.
And Malak is also very strong in the force (like Dooku) and Malak even demonstrates "Force Drain".
These things should be kept in mind when discussing fight against Malak.
Malak was no less impressive and powerful then Dooku and add to this, he was young and physically strong as well.
This fight can end up in both ways but Malak has more chances to win due to his obvious advantages.
Revan didn't survive a hit from a ship, his ship did.
Revan may have sneaked through the Star Forge.
Revan is powerful, no doubt, but not good enough to take down Sidious.
Sidious owned three of the best swordsmen in seconds, and has more raw power (although Palpatine doesn't completely outclass him here)/ experience than Revan.
Dooku owns Traya. He has far better showings.
You can't count luck as a factor in a fight.
"[Dooku] pushed this aside, drawing once more upon the certain knowledge of his personal invincibility to open a channel to the Force. Power flowed into him, and the weight of his years dropped away. "
Excuse me?
Looks like age isn't a factor, couple this with Malak being brash and Dookus force mastery becoming "a joke" while fighting Anakin, Looks like Anakin will whoop up on Malak.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
[B]Revan didn't survive a hit from a ship, his ship did.
Revan may have sneaked through the Star Forge.
Revan is powerful, no doubt, but not good enough to take down Sidious.
Sidious owned three of the best swordsmen in seconds, and has more raw power (although Palpatine doesn't completely outclass him here)/ experience than Revan.
Sidious is not invincible. Yes! Sidious is little more powerful then Revan and I admit this fact but Revan is still a very dangerous opponent for him.
And Revan had no less raw power then Sidious and this was proved on Star Forge.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Dooku owns Traya. He has far better showings.
You can't count luck as a factor in a fight.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
"[Dooku] pushed this aside, drawing once more upon the certain knowledge of his personal invincibility to open a channel to the Force. Power flowed into him, and the weight of his years dropped away. "
Excuse me?
Looks like age isn't a factor, couple this with Malak being brash and Dookus force mastery becoming "a joke" while fighting Anakin, Looks like Anakin will whoop up on Malak.
Dooku was a "Force User" and it is obvious that he draws his power from force itself just like all other Jedi and Sith.
But that does not means that OLD age has no impact on him. If he was young, then perhaps would be more fast and agile.
If his age was not the full reason then his "over-confidence" did led him to his failure.
And Anakin also became over-confident after killing Dooku.
And seriously, Dooku performed much better and seemed more agile in AOTC when he faced Yoda.
Malak has different approach for fighting his enemies. He uses other means more to dispatch his enemies then actually getting in a Saber Combat.
And given that he had more knowledge of Force then "Pre-Suit Vader", and he would use that knowledge on his enemies first so Vader will be pawned.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well both teams can win but it depends upon who takes who first.The Sith had changed indeed but not by much.
Some argue that Sidious got a huge chunck of his knowledge of various Dark Side powers from holocrons of Ancient Sith.
And these so called modern Sith Lords (like their predecessors) display same kind of arrogance, anger, beliefs and purposes.
Like all other powerful Sith Lords before Sidious, Sidious also wanted the same thing - "To rule the galaxy and to destroy the Jedi".Every damn Sith Lord had same thing in his/her mind.
So, I don't understand that what has actually changed?
If you say that modern Sith Lords had more knowledge of the force then their predecessors, then sadly the tales of "Expanded Universe" is proving you 100% wrong.
Try to read some posts before coming up with same arguements again and again.
[B]Here are some achievements of Revan:- Revan became "Dark Lord of the Sith" and created a huge Sith Empire. This achievement alone rivals that of Sidious.
- He survived a betrayal that was impossible to survive. A shot fired by a large Laser Canon of an advanced Sith Cruiser. How many can survive this shot? I cannot say because Revan took a direct hit and his mind was almost destroyed but he was still alive. Very amazing indeed.
- Then he killed an entire army of Sith on Star Forge. To accomplish this, you need to be very very powerful in the force and also be superb in all other aspects as well. And this achievement shows that Revan was no less powerful then Yoda.
- He also killed a very powerful Sith Lord "SF powered Malak", whose powers were heavily boosted by Star Forge.
- Star Forge was a dangerous weapon to depend upon and yet Malak was able to take advantage from its power, which is an amazing achievement and so could have Revan. But Malak indicated that SF powered Revan would be "invincible". Now imagine Revan's power.
- Revan also demonstrated "Force Storm" on Lehon planet and killed large number of enemies in a single attack with it.
- Revan alone was nominated as a "Prodigcal Knight" by master Vandar, which was due to his immense skills in Saber Combat.
- And Revan alone was a formidable opponent for an entire Sith Empire that was capable enough to destroy entire worlds and Revan demonstrated his immense power in the Star Forge itself. Even his "SF powered enemies" (Bastilla and Malak) could not stop him.
- Revan was even heavily appreciated by his Mandelorian enemies, who seldom respect anyone which is noticeable.
Now, all these achievements are not enough in your eyes?
Do you think that Revan achieved this all due to just his Saber Skills?
No Sir! Revan was actually very strong in the force and he had immense knowledge of both Dark Side and Light Side powers.'
These are reasons that Revan is so much respected and considered to be very powerful. His achievements speak volumes about his power.
And the reason that the Revan's reign as a Sith Lord is short lived is because of betrayal. Stop blaming Revan for his short-lived reign!
I believe that Tyranus is better then Traya but this fight is more dependant on luck.
Traya after distracting Dooku with her "force powered light sabers" will not just weight for him to end that challenge, She will try to take advantage from this distraction and this can be end for Dooku.[/.Quote]
The same Dooku who took on two experienced Jedi Masters at once?
[Quote]
I don't need to say more!
The words used in novelization are good but they look good in novels and not in actual fights.
Anakin's anger fueled him and also his potential with the Light Saber, and add to this his young age, more agility and already exceptional Light Saber skills, he proved to be too much for an old and physically weak Dooku.
This is what we could easily notice in that fight in ROTS.
? Dooku can outfight an all out Grievous.
Now, Malak is a totally different case!
Malak (unlike) Dooku is young, physically very strong and is more agile.
His Light Saber skills are also very good (just like that of Dooku) but he is not physically weak and old.
Old age always takes toll on your body.
If you are so fond of mentioning Anakin's victory over Dooku, then you also need to look what happened in case of fight against Obi-Wan, who was young.
I know that Obi-Wan knew Anakin very well but so did Anakin knew Obi-Wan more then enough to fight him. This point is already moot because of both cases cancelling the effect of each other.
And Malak is also very strong in the force (like Dooku) and Malak even demonstrates "Force Drain".
These things should be kept in mind when discussing fight against Malak.
Malak was no less impressive and powerful then Dooku and add to this, he was young and physically strong as well.
This fight can end up in both ways but Malak has more chances to win due to his obvious advantages. [/B]
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I fully agree that Sidious is most powerful Sith Lord but when fighting against opponents that are on par with him or even close to him means that they are very dangerous and can defeat Sidious.I believe that outcome of fight can be decided by many factors. Even pure luck can fetch victory in some circumstances.
But being most powerful does not means being invincible.
We all know that what happened to Marka Ragnos!
Yes, but we cannot take "luck" in account in vs matches, anything could happen, therefore, it's better to put it like this, the most powerful of the match wins the match!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
More than any other Dark Lord. He also summons up the souls of long dead dark lords to take their knowledge.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
But thanks to Bane, are far more effective
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And unlike every last one of them: He succeeded
And their was a strong rebellion against his empire. And that "insignificant" rebellion managed to destroy their ultimate weapon "Death Star" twice, despite disposal of advanced weaponry and firepower from Emperor's forces.
So, like all other Sith Lords, Sidious also failed.
And Revan also had the power to wipe out all the Jedi but his goals were different. He was more concerned about the threat from the "True Sith" and was not so eager to destroy "The Republic".
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Power, method, ability, etc
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Actually, the EU is backing us up here. Those Ancients were so GODLY, an entire army of them was beaten by a force consisting of four Jedi. Wowee!
Also, ancient Sith Lords demonstrated some powers that were not demonstrated by Sith of PT era. Only Sidious is a valid exception.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
He didn't destroy the Republic or the Jedi. No rivalry
But he was a good guy actually and his purpose was different from most other Sith Lords.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because a Jedi decided to save his life. OMG. Palpatine survived a betrayal impossible to survive on his own after his body was disintegrated.
Did you miss how BASTILA kept Revan alive?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove it. Last I saw, his comrades were there
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow, so have so many other Jedi. In fact, this may put him under Yoda who was sttaed to be the strongest foe of the Darkness and Revan falls under that category
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow, unsubstantiated hyperbole
Star Forge was the reason for the downfall of Rakatan Super-Empire and Star Forge was also known to consume Force users as well.
Go and play KOTOR to find out the entire story.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove it
The One's warriors actually became victims to Darth Revan's deadly "Force Storm".
Go and play KOTOR once again!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Do you even know what prodigal means? They were talking about his redemption
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're some kind of fanboy. Last I checked, Revan turned Bastila back to the light
Revan turned Bastilla back to light after defeating her at-least 4 times on Star Forge.
You surely know nothing!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow, big ****ing deal, they respect any decent tactician
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Compared to someone who destroyed the Jedi Order, Republic, created a galaxy wide empire, survived the grave itself to achieve true immortality and destroy a fleet in his anger....nope
Last time I checked, "Darth Sion" also accomplished this!
The republic was not destroyed actually but it was manipulated by Sidious to join his cause!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Noone's claiming that
Whatever Force Powers I mentioned here, he just said prove it. So, I had to remind him that Revan knew a very good deal of powerful Light Side Force Powers to subdue his enemies because no one and I repeat no one could defeat such large number of enemies just on the basis of Light Saber skills.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow, so did Palpatine!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Same as Palpatine's. Yoda's still stronger than Revan, by the EU's measure!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean putting Malak close by in a position of power? How pathetic of Revan. Luke as of Courtship of Princess Leia survived what Revan got on that ship
We are not discussing Luke here!
Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's really not. Two out of three on Revan's team go down in short order
Originally posted by Lightsnake
As you're wrong
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, too ****ing bad for you, they're canon
Originally posted by Lightsnake
IE: He was better
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yep, Anakin was better
? Dooku can outfight an all out Grievous.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Stronger and faster than Grievous?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You understand strength and speed usually mean jack in a real sword duel between masters, right? Malak is not a master of Form V. And Malak is not faster nor stronger than a full out Grievous
Speed detemines your agility and movements. They can make a lot difference in a Melee/Saber Combat.
Yoda used speed to maximum effect during his fights against many enemies.
Malak's forms are not fully determined yet.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not when you use the Force. Yoda lifts a goddamn house on his back at one point
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Irrelevant. Obi-wan taught Anakin how to fight
"Darth Imperious" taught "Darth Plagueis" to fight and Plagueis pawned him later on in a saber duel.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Obi-wan is the best Soresu practioner ever, anakin wasn't thinking straight due to Padme....forget that?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
An obsolete ability. He'd have used it on Revan if it were so godly
Force Drain was never obsolete.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Kept in mind. Dooku wins
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Dooku has experience with those opponents
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Tell that to Grievous [/B]
Dooku, Mace and Obi-Wan showed this!
And Malak was also an excellent duelist like them!
Thanks for your insignificant analysis though!
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I agree!How did Bane enhanced powers of PT era Sith?
No! he did not. Some Jedi were still alive (Obi-wan, Yoda and Luke) and they changed the fate of the entire galaxy.
And their was a strong rebellion against his empire. And that "insignificant" rebellion managed to destroy their ultimate weapon "Death Star" twice, despite disposal of advanced weaponry and firepower from Emperor's forces.
So, like all other Sith Lords, Sidious also failed.
And Revan also had the power to wipe out all the Jedi but his goals were different. He was more concerned about the threat from the "True Sith" and was not so eager to destroy "The Republic".
Only Sidious surpassed the best of KOTOR and Pre-KOTOR periods.
Only Revan's team managed to destroy the entire Sith Army on Star Forge. Other Jedi Knights went to Star Forge but failed.
Also, ancient Sith Lords demonstrated some powers that were not demonstrated by Sith of PT era. Only Sidious is a valid exception.
But he was capable enough to do so!
But he was a good guy actually and his purpose was different from most other Sith Lords.
Yes! he survived the attack and Bastilla's help proved to be essential. Guess what ? he could always inspire others with his attractive and charming personality.
Not according to the game.....you'll have to prove up....
Those comrades could not last longer then 15 minutes on their own against such odds. And Revan's help was crucial and even Malak realized this when his army of Star Forge Battle Droids was crushed.
Yoda was not the best Jedi. Luke surpassed him and Revan was an exceptional match for him as well. He was capable enough to stalemate Yoda in a fight at-least.
This information is mentioned in KOTOR and most things mentioned in KOTOR are canon.
Star Forge was the reason for the downfall of Rakatan Super-Empire and Star Forge was also known to consume Force users as well.
Go and play KOTOR to find out the entire story.This event was illustrated by "The One" to Revan when he met him again on Lehon and "The One" was a leader of one of the factions of Rakatans fighting for control over Lehon.
The One's warriors actually became victims to Darth Revan's deadly "Force Storm".
Go and play KOTOR once again!
Well! Revan was known to be a Saber Prodigy? am I right?
I like Revan but I am not his fanboy. I also like Anakin a lot.Revan turned Bastilla back to light after defeating her at-least 4 times on Star Forge.
You surely know nothing!And names of others are?
Sidious did managed to destroy Jedi Order but he did not managed to eliminate Jedi.Last time I checked, "Darth Sion" also accomplished this!
The republic was not destroyed actually but it was manipulated by Sidious to join his cause!
Escape81 had some doubts!Whatever Force Powers I mentioned here, he just said prove it. So, I had to remind him that Revan knew a very good deal of powerful Light Side Force Powers to subdue his enemies because no one and I repeat no one could defeat such large number of enemies just on the basis of Light Saber skills.
Revan's position has not been fully determined in EU so your point is moot. His story has to be completed yet!
And Sidious did that too with Vader. And that same Vader betrayed him as well. How pathetic of Sidious.
According to your assumption.Play KOTOR II and then tell me!
They are canon but words used in it sound more like a "poem" is being recited.
I agree that Anakin was better in Saber Skills then Dooku!Grevious is irrelevant here!
Was Dooku stronger and faster then Grevious as well?
Wow! strength determines that how much chance you get to hit your opponents in a Melee/Saber combat.Speed detemines your agility and movements. They can make a lot difference in a Melee/Saber Combat.
Yoda used speed to maximum effect during his fights against many enemies.
Malak's forms are not fully determined yet.
Knowledge of Force has nothing to do with OLD Age.
So???"Darth Imperious" taught "Darth Plagueis" to fight and Plagueis pawned him later on in a saber duel.
No! Anakin was not thinking straight due to his Over-confidence and his arrogance.
He uses his force powers on Revan unless Revan uses "Force Immunity".
Force Drain was never obsolete.
Wins against Grevious? well yes!And yet he lost!
Grevious was not unbeatable.
Dooku, Mace and Obi-Wan showed this!And Malak was also an excellent duelist like them!
Thanks for your insignificant analysis though!
Originally posted by Dessel
Palpatine had Vader.
You're the King of irrelevent points. Kinda like Legend here, arguing with you gets to the point of ridiculous quickly. Palpatine was the greatest Sith Lord in terms of accomplishments. As LS said, Vader was a tool. He could've done it himself, but chose to have Vader hunt down the remaining Jedi.
Don't like it? Disagree with it? Too freakin' bad.