Sparrabeth

Started by willofthewisp300 pages

Tigers, your observations are really good. I've only seen the scene once and it was over the summer, but I remember it pretty well. Plus it's on youtube in a lot of vids, so somebody correct me if I miss a little detail.

From a psychology major's standpoint, J/E became even more delectable because they didn't get together. It opened up for so much analysis and I was thinking about their relationship and how sparrabethers weren't 100% wrong.
Okay, I'll start with AWE since DMC has been critiqued to death by now. I wish I had the link to the scene where everyone reunites with Jack. I believe Liz goes up to him and asks him if he remembers her. His eyes widen and he walks off. Right? Okay. That says to me that for the time being, Jack no longer associates Liz with anything romantic or even pleasant. The first memory that probably came to mind was not the fact that they kissed but that she left him to die. So naturally he's bitter and angry at her and that's why he tells everyone that "one of them" actually got away with killing him. So they've gone from potential lovers to something uncertain and awkward. I'm sure Liz was expecting him to be angry with her. Notice how she doesn't push him to forgive her or annoy him. She's letting him have his space, much more so than Will and Barbossa are doing, hoping he'll come around.

I think the next big significant moment between them is at her father's death scene. They wind up next to each other (keep this in mind) and the crew watches the sad scene of Liz going through all the stages of grief in about 4 minutes. Jack watches with a tremendous amount of pity. I think here is when he forgives her but still doesn't know what to do about her. In spite of what she did to him, I think he still loved her but had to rearrange what she was going to mean to him. Does that make sense? He still wants her in his life but not as a girlfriend/lover.

So in sort of a twisted manner, he takes on the Barbossa role of being her mentor. Look at the Shipwreck Cove scene all the way to the Sand Dune scene. All three of them are filmed as equals/peers, and Jack challenged his little protege by naming her King. We've already established he did so because she's the only one with a kickass plan and she's the only one he trusts. Trusts. So this mentor/mentee relationship seems to be working for the time being, and it works all the way up until the end.

Suddenly it becomes the Wizard of Oz and after Liz (Dorothy) doesn't so much as look at all the others, she has her "I'll-Miss-You-the-Most-Scarecrow" moment with Jack. Tigers has great observations here with their little looks. It kind of takes me back to DMC when he explains the compass. I don't think they're trying to give each other signals or anything like that. This is how they are with each other. It's completely unintentional, they just make each other smile. But that look he gives her as he watches her leave...it really suggests something other than what he says. So I think here he's decided he's not all that crazy about the mentor/mentee relationship, but it will have to do until she changes her mind about him. So I think Jack's final take on Liz by the end of AWE is how it was in DMC. Their relationship's mended enough to keep them friends, so why can't it be mended enough to suggest he still loves her? It may not be the canon ending, but the performances

oops, premature post.

...but the performances make this a very plausible theory.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
So what we've been discussing....

Was Keira a Sparrabether? Did she not like the end of the movie?
Will doesn't choose to be Captain of the Flying Dutchman, Jack chose it for him.
The final goodbye between Jack and Liz, something doesn't seem right, why do they both have that little smile...like there's an understanding between them.....especially as he watches her walk off....that smile, the look in his eyes say 'you haven't seen the last of me yet, darling'.....

things to think about:

Why does Gibbs think he is on the Pearl when Jack wakes him up on the docks....theories are that Jack left him on the Pearl, but Barboosa took advantage of a drunk Gibbs and set him off the ship with the Teddy Bear...and took off with the Pearl...

Some have speculated that when Jack slaps Gibbs....Gibbs looks at Jack and has some sort of understanding, he smiles, and nods his head - he knows what Jack must do - Jack and him do the dukes with their fists "take what you can"...then Jack turns around with that look on his face....then he sets sail in a dingy with rum, compass and map....why did Jack steal the map from Barboosa - does Jack really plan to make it to Florida in a dingy??? Jack needs a ship, but I highly doubt he is going after the Pearl at this point. Who has a ship? Elizabeth.....well, these are some Sparrabeth theories over at Sparrabeth.com and Tasty Pirates....some theories say that perhaps Jack's compass is pointing him toward Shipwreck Cove at the very end when he sings "Drink up me hearties, yo-ho"...and that's how the movie ends...then the very next thing that happens at the end of the credits is a little boy singing "a pirate's life for me".....

of course, all of our theories and analyzing was way off target with DMC...so who knows......

Well...yes probably it seems she was a sparrabether and she wanted the end turn in different way...
YES completely agree!!!Something is wrong...but who knows...
Lovethemtigers, I love all of your theories..i would love to know they are really true..and yeah i saw it on sparrabeth.com and i like the theory about jack´s kid...why not???jack as a father how cute 🙂 ...but i think it isn´t his...i don´t wanna be too pesimistic but you know..it would be quite strange- in a certain way of the story...but the ending is so strange and it´s so difficult to find out what did really happen coz every look and smile characters do,seems like jack and elizabeth really were somehow together that it was like a destiny or what...but on the other hand it would not be "moral" and the actions somehow seems to be more w/e than JE...
But we don´t know anything,actually...but we have quite enough time to find out...

I´m so glad girls we´re like in the past when we used to keep the faith..and even though sometimes the theories aren´t so real-like with the kid, NOTHING is lost! and we used to have really crazy theories last year -just remember about liz dying and about liz in love with sao..😄 but every little crazy theory helped us to get near the truth...

i´m so proud of us!!!We could find out the ending and even though it was not exactly like in the movie it was almost the same but our ending was still a hope...but it doesn´t matter i´m still convinced it should have been like we all wanted but someone changed it...

Well, I thought about that song. Liz sang it as a little child in COTBP, so the fact that her child sang the same song as Jack sang in a dinghy doesn't give me a hope for Sparrabeth. I saw the scene after credits many times on youtube, trying to find something, anything, a little sign that this is Jack's kid. All I've found is that this kid is very happy, looks like his waiting for someone special, his mother smiles to him and looks at the sea with joy.

Moreover there was another thing that makes me angry. I've just realized that. During the final battle Liz jumped onto FD's deck to save Will, she doesn't do it for Jack. It's like she would go everywhere for him, fight with DJ for him. I hate it. Franky, I have enough of her taking care of Will... I've started to think that Jack deserves someone better, who would do anything for him.

Originally posted by Jaeh_JediPirate

could you also tell me the part where Will was killed by davey? i need it too.. .*grins*

where'd you get this?!!!!! *sigh* I want an AWE cd... it would make this much easier lol...

Jack was fighting with DJ on the mast, he cut off DJ's tentacle with the key, during the fight the chest fell down on the deck of FD. Will saw the chest and jumped for it. He got the chest. Jack was fighting still with DJ, Liz saw Will on FD's deck and decided to help him. She jumped on FD's deck. DJ saw her and they started to fight. Will attacked DJ, then his father attacked him, Will was fighting with his father, he stabbed something nearby his father saying he promised to save him, meanwhile Jack was fighting with DJ, then he was hit, Will was fighting with DJ, DJ hit him, Will fell down, (Jack was somewhere there trying to get the tentacle with the key) then the scene with Jack holding DJ's heart and the knife. DJ stabbed Will's heart. Jack looked terrified. Will's father attacked DJ. DJ pushed him away. Jack saw desperate Liz by Will. Then there was a scene with Will's hand stabbing DJ's heart. DJ fell down into the maelstrom. Jack took Liz from Will, FD's crew kept repeating that FD must have a captain, the whelp's father came closer to his son with knife in his hand...and then there was a parachute scene. I hope i didn't mess up much. 😉

I found the quotes here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449088/quotes. I've seen the movie 3 times 😉 (only for Jack of course 😄 )

Elizabeth's father told her when she was a little girl and they met Will,to take care of him,but come on he 's agrown up man who doesn't need taking care of,does he.It's so unmasculine really.A man must be a man.

Will is a man? wow. didn't know that.

yes, ever since her father tells her that Will's in her charge, "to look after the boy"...that's what she did...her entire life......stupid girl, truly she is...and at times I agree with JoanJoan...Jack deserves better than Elizabeth...cuz she's too stupid to see what's right in front of her....

I don't think a woman or a wife should behave like a mother to a man.I don't really see why the writers see it good.

Originally posted by joanjoan
Moreover there was another thing that makes me angry. I've just realized that. During the final battle Liz jumped onto FD's deck to save Will, she doesn't do it for Jack. It's like she would go everywhere for him, fight with DJ for him. I hate it. Franky, I have enough of her taking care of Will... I've started to think that Jack deserves someone better, who would do anything for him.

Well I think this is really open to many intepretations. It is as usual vintage TnT to keep it ambiguous. Did Liz jump onto FD's deck for Will or for Jack? After all, she did tell everyone on board the Black Pearl before the battle started that "we've got to give Jack a chance". She was clearly worried about him and still thinking about him! So my guess is that she was thinking of both Will and Jack when she jumped onto the FD.

Originally posted by To Freedom
Well I think this is really open to many intepretations. It is as usual vintage TnT to keep it ambiguous. Did Liz jump onto FD's deck for Will or for Jack? After all, she did tell everyone on board the Black Pearl before the battle started that "we've got to give Jack a chance". She was clearly worried about him and still thinking about him! So my guess is that she was thinking of both Will and Jack when she jumped onto the FD.

ooh.. I'm with you on that one.

Originally posted by joanjoan
Jack was fighting with DJ on the mast, he cut off DJ's tentacle with the key, during the fight the chest fell down on the deck of FD. Will saw the chest and jumped for it. He got the chest. Jack was fighting still with DJ, Liz saw Will on FD's deck and decided to help him. She jumped on FD's deck. DJ saw her and they started to fight. Will attacked DJ, then his father attacked him, Will was fighting with his father, he stabbed something nearby his father saying he promised to save him, meanwhile Jack was fighting with DJ, then he was hit, Will was fighting with DJ, DJ hit him, Will fell down, (Jack was somewhere there trying to get the tentacle with the key) then the scene with Jack holding DJ's heart and the knife. DJ stabbed Will's heart. Jack looked terrified. Will's father attacked DJ. DJ pushed him away. Jack saw desperate Liz by Will. Then there was a scene with Will's hand stabbing DJ's heart. DJ fell down into the maelstrom. Jack took Liz from Will, FD's crew kept repeating that FD must have a captain, the whelp's father came closer to his son with knife in his hand...and then there was a parachute scene. I hope i didn't mess up much. 😉

I found the quotes here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449088/quotes. I've seen the movie 3 times 😉 (only for Jack of course 😄 )

gah,, I wanna see AWE for Jack again!!!!!!! shirtless.. gah shirtless... dd

thanks for the info! err... could I pm you and err... help me on some details? have to make sure it fits with AWE, and, because haven't watched it for a pretty long time... 😄

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
yes, ever since her father tells her that Will's in her charge, "to look after the boy"...that's what she did...her entire life......stupid girl, truly she is...and at times I agree with JoanJoan...Jack deserves better than Elizabeth...cuz she's too stupid to see what's right in front of her....

Yes, she seems so stupid. I'm sure she wouldn't have been like that if the script had been written by woman 😉

Originally posted by Jaeh_JediPirate

thanks for the info! err... could I pm you and err... help me on some details? have to make sure it fits with AWE, and, because haven't watched it for a pretty long time... 😄

Yes, you can ✅

****anti-whelpabeth rant alert!!!****

Ew. I just popped over to the Willobeth thread (against my better judgement) and I now feel sick. I was a good girl, and restrained myself from bashing, but its hard when Sparrabeth just seems so *right* (plus, I was totally peeved they spelled it "willobeth", its already a sappy/gross pairing, at least spell it right). Whelpabeth just seems so juvenile and sappy to me, at least most of their scenes do. With the Sparrabeth pairing, every glance, touch, interaction has so much energy (be it stemming from passion or a scathing argument), it keeps you reeled in. Makes you ask 'what are they going to do next?'. Like someone has said before, Jack really took on the mentoring role for Elizabeth and watched her rise to the occasion, they challenged eachother, continued to raise the stakes... I'm rambling now!

I guess my main peeve is I think Will is astonishingly selfish, not truly giving Lizzie an out and then sailing off into the sunset *growl*. I'll get off my soapbox now.

****end of rant****

Jaeh, the fic sounds like it will be neat, can't wait to read it!

yes! i agree. it seems juvenile and sappy.

Have I told you all lately....I hate AWE...

RANT ALERT!

I too am so furious about what the writers, directors, producers, whoever...did with this trilogy....

why why why give us all those great moments and cryptic messages for it to mean nothing.....I can't let go...i don't know why..what is wrong with me...it's like I'm addicted .....and I can't stop myself.....

I hate AWE.....and it really cuts into my very soul because that's all we talked about over this past year....was seeing AWE and how great it was going to be....and how awesome it would be when Jack and Lizzie see each other again..and how great it would be when they finally stopped denying their feelings.....

ah, that stupid ole compass....and that song...oh the song......the fate intervened line, the "it's a curious thing" observation by Norrington.....the dress sinking to the depths of the ocean......the whole dang blasted Curiosity Conversation...to what point and purpose did that serve?????but to reel in sparrabethers, hook, line and sinker????
😒 😠 🙁

Exactly. This is why I hardly post anymore. AWE was a complete disappointment. I know how addicting it is, but I try not to spend time being angry. I find other things to be obsessed with lol. I tried not coming on this forum for a few days, and it worked. No obsession anymore. Instead of watching Pirates, I read. Instead of coming on this forum, I ride my bike. Instead of thinking about it, I call my friends. I just push it out of my mind.

Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Have I told you all lately....I hate AWE...

RANT ALERT!

I too am so furious about what the writers, directors, producers, whoever...did with this trilogy....

why why why give us all those great moments and cryptic messages for it to mean nothing.....I can't let go...i don't know why..what is wrong with me...it's like I'm addicted .....and I can't stop myself.....

I hate AWE.....and it really cuts into my very soul because that's all we talked about over this past year....was seeing AWE and how great it was going to be....and how awesome it would be when Jack and Lizzie see each other again..and how great it would be when they finally stopped denying their feelings.....

ah, that stupid ole compass....and that song...oh the song......the fate intervened line, the "it's a curious thing" observation by Norrington.....the dress sinking to the depths of the ocean......the whole dang blasted Curiosity Conversation...to what point and purpose did that serve?????but to reel in sparrabethers, hook, line and sinker????
😒 😠 🙁

they deleted some SParrabeth scenes!!! *sigh*

DMC swung the story to the Sparrabeth angle... then, someone went ahead and swung it back to willabeth... i wonder whose idea it is!! I mean... it's frustrating... they could've went ahead and made a sparrabeth ending, and yet... *sigh*

is it disney's fault or something? producers?

sorry for double post... just wanna ask something.. have anyone read my first sparrabeth fic...? "What Could Have Happened in AWE".. hehe, if you haven't.. well, i want you guys to read it... I'll post the link right now lol....


FanFiction.Net - What Could Have Happened in AWE, a Pirates of the Caribbean fanfic

tell me if the link works or not.. 😄

Originally posted by lovethemtigers

ah, that stupid ole compass....and that song...oh the song......the fate intervened line, the "it's a curious thing" observation by Norrington.....the dress sinking to the depths of the ocean......the whole dang blasted Curiosity Conversation...to what point and purpose did that serve?????but to reel in sparrabethers, hook, line and sinker????
😒 😠 🙁

the compass... it was so clear that she wanted him and then they said it was all a lie... and yes, the Norri's observation. I was sure that Liz was falling in love, that smile on her face... and everything you wrote... what was the reason for them to give us those moments??? Were they playing with our hearts? 🙁

Almost in every film, moments like that lead to something. In that one they just decided to forget about it...

No matter how much I try to tell myself that Liz doesn't deserve Jack I can't stop wanting to see them together forever.

I dare say, Sparrabethers deserved an alternate ending.