kate, i think the switch was there because of the 'look' exchanged between liz/will.
will says something about somebody still willing to fight for (whatever it was) and then he looks as jack who smiles and lizzy sees this. I think she instantly recognises that jack as a plan, and therefore she does the switch to sort of help him along...
on the pearl in the next scene, liz says something to barbozza about 'giving jack a chance' on the opposing ship...
Wow! Great analysis everyone! Are you all literature students/teachers/critics or what?
After rescuing Jack from the locker, Liz essentially had settled her guilt. So why didn't she just sail away to another place and settle down quietly with Will and carry on their interrupted marriage? Since the EIC was probably after them, they were fugitives who could have escaped to some obscure place, right?
Okay...so the parlay scene.....Liz catches on to what Jack and Will are planning...so that is why as Pirate King she decides to "trade" jack for will, so that Jack can get on the Dutchman and stab the heart.....they are reunited as friends at this point....Jack has forgiven Liz for her betrayal, just as Kate said...he realizes that Liz did it not for purely selfish reasons, but to save the lives of others, Will and Jack's crew...she basically made her choice when she leaves Jack to die on the Pearl. Now don't get me wrong, I am a Sparrabether, but realistically that is what happens, and as angry and sad as it makes me...that is what happened....
Just like it ended.....T and T leave no doubt in our mind if we are realistic about it.....Liz and Will have sex, she has a baby and he returns 10 years later......for his one day. The only thing that makes me wonder, is the little guy is dressed like Jack (sort of - the hat mainly) and he is singing the same song that Jack is singing just before the credits roll. So on the surface it appears that Liz and Will have a son, but to those of us who like to analyze and dig and search for things beneath the surface, we have to wonder....is it really Will's son? Obviously Jack has had some kind of influence on this child? So, the Sparrabether in me likes to dream and ponder all the different ways it could still be Jack and Lizzy.....and there is that Sparrabether in me that believes that Jack and Liz is the true romance of this trilogy...tragic though it is......its a love that can never be fulfilled...some of the greatest love stories in hollywood history live on untold, unrequited...like "As Time Goes By" in Casablanca...and Gone With the Wind with Scarlett and Rhett....and I'm sure there are many others.....
But this was a Disney movie I was so hoping it would have had a much happier ending....for all the characters...but in actuality none of the characters have found true happiness, nor freedom.....
Once again, T&T do a number on us in regards to time. Poor Elizabeth, I know many people want to think that she's had the spirit beaten out of her and has regressed. I think lovethemtigers explained parlay very well that I think nothing else can be said about that scene. But I just don't see the influence Jack has on the kid. I'm sure he's met the kid, probably hung out with him and been somewhat of a father figure for him since I think Jack and Elizabeth are still close, but who was it that taught Jack that song in the first place? Who was it that dressed like a pirate in DMC? Elizabeth. I think her adventures have had a big influence on this kid and it really makes it Elizabeth's story that the series starts with her as a child singing that song to herself...as if waiting for something special to happen, and it ends with her child singing it to himself...waiting for something special to happen.
My personal belief is that when Will gets back, it's like our trio again and they have some adventures we once again don't get to see, just as we don't get to see Elizabeth running Shipwreck Cove and raising her son by herself. However, I think that eventually, Will will die and these two will be left to comfort the kid and each other and when they've been able to manage their grief, they'll be free to come together and live the rest of their lives together. These two will get together, but I think as long as Will is alive, it's not going to happen.
I don't know... I think after everything that happened in AWE, I would prefer for Elizabeth and Will to be reunited after 10 years and go on with life together, and for Jack to meanwhile go on with his own life. I like the idea of the trio having adventures and such, but I think after AWE, I want Jack to move on. I just don't like to think of him waiting around for 20 years for Will to die... hahaha. oh gee. that sounded terrible. but you know what i mean. i guess if Jack and Lizzie can't be together, there's got to be someone else out there for Jack. Right?
although i do agree kate, i also feel that jack and liz werent really meant to be together at all 🙁
Dont get me wrong, im not losing my sparrabeth-i-ness or anything...but i always got the feeling that no one was ever meant to actually be with jack.
Hes had whores (and possibly tia dalma) and probably the occasional rendezvous from time to time, but to me jack will always be a free man 🙂
I guess it comes part and parcel with being a pirate.
Pirates are supposed to be free, right? No restraints...nothing to tie them down...
Sure, i think jack had a very strong connection with liz...mostly lust and a little fondness... but i dont think he ever intended for them to ever be together.
"it would never have worked between us"
"Keep telling yourself that, darling"
--- that quote to me is almost the epitome of their relationship.
Liz would never have gotten the chance to find out whether or not it would have worked between them, because jack would never have gotten himself fully involved.
I dont mean as in he would have walked away after sex...what i do mean is that if he had of let himself fall completely for her, then he would no longer be a free man.
This could come back to jacks obsession over material objects...they're everything that makes him what he is; hat, ship, dirt ... he feels that he can control the enviroment around him with these objects. But the one thing that he cannot control is his freedom, and i think that this is jack's biggest fear.
In his defense, Jack has learned to somewhat curb his obsession with material objects and has become less selfish. He's proven that with what he did for Will. He wanted that immortality, really wanted it, but he cared more about Will and Elizabeth and couldn't let that happen to them. Now, I'll be fair and open to the possibility of him and Liz not being meant to be. I don't know if anyone is meant to be or not, I tend to think we make our own destinies, but I do think that if things were different for Jack and he were with someone, he would be a loyal, involved partner. He tends to put his best foot forward with things he cares about. He works as hard as he can at tracking down the Pearl and won't even waste one bullet on anyone else but Barbossa. He goes to great lengths to protect Will and Elizabeth, and the very reason he's a pirate at all is because he had enough integrity to refuse to transport slaves. So I think he is capable of committing to something, although he'll always be a flirt. He's a pirate, but he's not a very good one. He works creatively to get jobs done and his personality and skills make him a fantastic adventurer and things like that, but his heart keeps getting in his way of becoming a fantastic pirate, which tells me he is capable of mature, committed love if the right woman came along and if the timing was right.
Hmmm.... interesting points all around.
There are moments I definitely agree with you, T Maria. Sometimes I look at Jack and go, he would lose his magic if he were tied down... the peter pan syndrome or something. but other times, the romantic in me doesn't quite think anyone is really meant to be alone. of course, i'm not saying Jack is destined for the alter, or even strawberries and bubblebaths, but like his relationship with Elizabeth, I like to think he will have other meaningful, dramatic experiences with another woman at some point.
Question: Why did Jack want immortality anyways? I know they really tried hard to make that angle work in the film, and took a whole scene to try and convince us that immortality was the most important thing to Jack, but it seemed like it came out of left field and didn't really click with the plot, in my mind.
Willo, you read my mind. POTC continued it is. 🙂
I always guessed he was afraid of dying. He almost drowned when Davy resurrected the wicked wench and gave it to him to be the Pearl, he could have died laying out for three days on that island when he was first marooned especially since he had nothing in his system but rum, so he's been in some near-death experiences and then he actually did experience death and even though he was in the Locker as opposed to a heaven or a hell, he sure wasn't enjoying himself going crazy.
Check out POTC Continued, Kate.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
Hmmm.... interesting points all around.
Question: Why did Jack want immortality anyways? I know they really tried hard to make that angle work in the film, and took a whole scene to try and convince us that immortality was the most important thing to Jack, but it seemed like it came out of left field and didn't really click with the plot, in my mind.
Jack had a taste of death in DJ's Locker and he hated it. He would never want to be there, ever. In there, he can't seem to be in control and I think Jack likes to be in charge of his own destiny. He longs to live on forever on this earth, free to do whatever he desires and death is something that can end all that freedom.
Jack telling Elisabeth it would have never worked out between us and keep telling yourself that darlin'--more of his coyote trickster enhance my legend foolishness, don't you suppose? He made every effort to raise his street rep with almost everything he did and passing on a high born lady afte she moved to help save him from the gallows...well, what a story that might have been and how many questions got raised over Elisabeth's virtue from all who heard Jack say that?
Keep telling yourself that darlin'--he just will not allow her or anyone to have the last word. He had to appear to be the stud muffin who walked away, although I feel more inclined to believe he was playing his cards extremely close to his vest on this one, hedging his bet to win her at the last moment.
I'm with you KateLovesPirate, I know in my heart of hearts, that I would love beyond breathing, to say Yes, I tamed the man, I brought the Great the Infamous Pirate Captain Jack Sparrow to heel when none of the King's navy nor any of the enticing whores of Tortuga nor the siren song of far off treasure could accomplish this feat. Boy heidi, would my chest swell from here to New Jerusalem--yet I know that in even imagining that, I feel so sad to know that The Great and Infamous Captain Jack Sparrow would lose any part of that which makes him. I want him to be as happy as the circumstances of his life will allow him to be, however, it's like ice cream--some people don't like chocolate. Just because I believe I would be happier paired with one partner for ever after, doesn't mean he would be. The worst thing, IMO, that you can possibly do to something or someone who is meant to move, is to place them in the berth and never use that part of their nature.
Wow reading all these has really made me depressed! I cant stand the fact that Jack was meant to be alone! I'm sorry, say i'm in denial or whatever, but i refuse to accept that Jack was born to live his life alone with a few aquiantences along the way!
There is someone out there for everyone including Jack, and to me that someone is Lizzie! Someone should stab the heart, kill Will be the next Captain and let Jack and Lizzie live life together in peace and in love! Oh my that sounded horrible! Oh well i guess it's the die heard Sparrabether in me!
Lmao 😆 I totally imagined myself all Rambo Status with bullet belts around my shoulders and across my chest, and belt with knifes and granades n stuff and with a shirt that says Team Sparrabeth fighting for Sparrabeth's right to love!!! lol
Well, ladies on the other forum...I can't post the correct link...but we are learning that the curse is not broken! Today Willabethers are finding out what it is liked to have their hearts ripped out and stomped upon by Ted and Terry.....they too are left unhappy as the DVD is released.
It clearly says on the DVD......The Dutchman must have a Captain, stab the heart......Will stabbed the heart...and he shall remain Captain until someone stabs his heart. The curse is forever......he only gets one day every ten years. Sad truly sad for Elizabeth...but maybe it's what she deserves for what she did to Jack...but the sad part about thsi whole thing..the trilogy ends tragically for everyone involved...Norrington fans, Will fans, Liz fans, Jack fans.....
and here is that Post by Terry about how we would all come together in the end...Wrong Terry, So Wrong....
Re: I prefer Will & Elizabeth
Posted by Terry on Tuesday, 29 August 2006, at 2:02 p.m., in response to Re: I prefer Will & Elizabeth, posted by Heartbrekaer on Tuesday, 29 August 2006, at 1:18 p.m.
>> I seriously doubt we are supposed to be devided, because POTC3 will resolve
>> this in a way that will leave half of (shipping) fandom disappointed.
If a story like this is done properly, which is to say if a love triangle is done properly, then, yes, there SHOULD be a division of the fans, because that proves that both sides of the triangle play as legit. (For you Jack Davenport fans, that would be a pyramid).
The way it (ideally) would (then) play out is, as the events of the third movie come to a climax, those events further inform the fans as to the most correct choice, so by the very end, half of the fandom has changed their minds, and come to agree with and join the other half -- and so no one is disappointed.
here is that link:
http://www.wordplayer.com/forums/moviesarc07/index.cgi?read=88327
and so no one is disappointed...
OMG...gag...barf.....whatever! Everyone is disappointed, what planet do these guys live on, I mean, really!
AGGGGHHHHHH I am so screaming.
Whew, got if off my chest, time to move on!
I'm afraid I don't understand. What exactly is this saying? Are T&T saying that this willabeth ending is supposed to make willabethers happy? I understand that there should be a division of fans. Writers love anything that incites fans' passions because it stirs the waters. I'm sure they also like hearing the different interpretations people have of their characters, but I don't understand why they double-backed on their answer about what happens to Will. Am I the only sparrabether who thinks this is unfair to everyone?
1. If there is no way to free him and he and Elizabeth can never be together, what is the motivation to be faithful to each other? (Yes, I do understand and endorse the power of marriage vows, but this is a very unique circumstance)
2. If T&T are advocates of marriage, as can be implied from the ending, then they must not be advocates of the nuclear family because they are giving Elizabeth the hardship of being a single mother not for 10 years, but pretty much every day of her life until Junior moves out or she dies, whichever comes first. Obviously they don't care much about the importance of family since Jack, Elizabeth, and Will all have a total of 2 parents that are left alive at the end of the series and the second generation of pirates is left with only one parent now too.
3. So...Jack has to step aside and get over the one woman he had a deep relationship with? Yes, I know we're in debate right now whether or not he loved her and whether or not he's meant to be with anyone at all, but now, whenever he comes to see her, he'll be tempted knowing she's going to be alone forever, not ten years, but forever. This also sort of makes Jack out to be a first class a**hole since in this scenario, the more merciful, selfless thing to do would be to have Will die and put out of his misery rather than give him a life where he can only see the woman he loves one day every ten years, not to mention subsequent children.
4. You're telling me that Tia Dalma can ressurect Barbossa from the dead (not the Locker, the dead) and Jack can be saved from the Locker but there's no way to lift Will's curse?
5. So...Elizabeth. I relate to her more and more every day since I am now pregnant and I'm Air Force while my husband is navy and we see each other about once a month for a few days for right now. I know it won't always be this way, but once a month can seem like forever. Everyone goes on and on about how men have urges but women have urges too and spirited, adventurous Elizabeth can't act on them? She has to be the born-again Virgin Pirate King? She has to raise a child by herself?
6. So remember how back in DMC Will decided that even though his father abandoned him, he wasn't going to repeat the cycle? Remember how he said he would stick with Bootstrap and not abandon him? Will, for all his faults, is not a love-you-and-leave-you type of guy. This has to be eating him up that he not only is forced to abandon his wife but now has to abandon his own son. Looks like the Turners are just generations of dead-beat dads, although it's not Will's fault.
I don't know Willo...that's why this stupid trilogy is a hairpulling type of thing. Why why would they make this ending so bittersweet....Liz and Will finally get married...but can never be together.....and then on the flip side.....Liz and Jack love each other but can never really be together...they are all forced to live lives of loneliness...........
I don't get it......
Well...I know we all like to be a little bit more on the realistic side here...but at the Sparrabeth site....sparrabethers are going crazy.....
For some odd reason, we think this may open the door for a j/e story in another sequel if Keira comes back....but I'm not so sure...the romantic hopeful side for me says "yeaH" and then the realistic side of me says, "no this can never be...it's all so sad".....
We keep going back to the hat and the song of the child along side of Lizzy at the very end of the trilogy......
and you know...that is ironic...Will always hated that he had to grow up without his father...and now it appears his son will too..if you believe the child to be will's.........
some are beginning to wonder......here goes the analyzing again! (not here, at Tasty Pirates)
Ok so I'm really excited!! Im about to complete one of the many Sparrabeth Fics i have been working on...Finally!! Just when u start gettin ideas u have to write them down before u forget so it's been hard to stick and stay focused to one! But i finally buckled down and stuck to one!
And ontop of that i finally gathered my courage and FINALLY shared my work (fic) with my friend, and to my total suprise she really liked it!! So i'm very excited!!
I think i'm finally ready to start posting on fanfiction.net! wish me Luck!! Oh God now im nervous because aside from my friend NO ONE ELSE HAS READ IT!!