Hello my dear friends. It's been awhile. What brings me here today...as it use to in the old days..is my love for Jack and Sparrabeth. Life must carry on, so I'm trying to move on and leave Pirates behind me. But alas it was a quite weekend last weekend and I decided to stop at the video store...and what did I find myself renting? At World's End, Sweeney Todd and Enchanted. I watched Sweeney first and then watched At World's End. I watched AWE for the first time in it's entirety since seeing it only one time in the theatre almost a year ago. I must say I was captivated. My mind was clear of all sparrabethness and johnnyness...etc..I just wanted to watch the movie.
By the cheesey wedding scene I had myself convinced that I had entirely misinterpreted this movie..and that Will and Liz were quite lovely together and that they belonged together and Jack was just Jack....
but then the ending came....when Jack is fighting Davy and then Davy fights Liz and then Davy fights Will..then Jack has the heart...etc.....then comes the beautiful parachute scene, and then the scene that always screamed out to me...I rewinded it and watched it over and over and then freeze-framed it in slow motion....
OMG OMG...when the battle is over and Liz looks to Jack and then Jack looks to Liz...so telling....and then the goodbye scene. I actually teared up. I had tears in my eyes...I kept rewinding and focusing on Liz and Jack's actions and body language...and I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.
I truly am convinced after watching this tonight that Liz and Jack are bound together. It's as if in that moment after the battle and as she is preparing to leave the Pearl that she realizes all what Jack did for her and why.......but she made a promise to Will and being the person she is..she must stand by her promise...for one day....one day every ten years.
She looks relunctant to leave and a little sad when Mr. Gibbs says "Your chariot, your highness"...and then he has a weird expression when he says "the ores are inside" almost as if he is aware that she really doesn't want to leave......so she lets go of her clutch on the side of the Pearl and she starts to walk....the camera shows Jack leaning so sadly against the railing of the Pearl..and she has her eyes focused on him as she heads that way...and as if she remembers they are surrounded by others...she stops in front of Barbossa and he says "Mrs. Turner" and she gives him a lukewarm smile....then passes by the rest of the crew as she makes her way to Jack..who finally looks up at her sadly and longingly...and she says "It would have never worked out between us"....and you get the feeling what she really wants to say is .."jack, in another place and another time....it could have worked...i don't really want to go, but I must"...and he smiles and says "keep telling yourself that darling"...now most believe this is Jack just being funny and teasing and getting the last word in..but I don't see it that way....OMG I just can't put down into words what this scene does to me....and then that look as he watches her walk away...
And watching the scene between Liz and Will on the beach..I guess it's just the wishful thinker in me but I can't help but wonder "did they really have sex?" Just because she has on his other boot and he kisses her leg....
And Jack in Tortuga....now, why did he take that part of the map if he didn't know that the Pearl would be gone....and why doesn't he seem all that upset....why does he finally tell the strumpets what he really thinks of them and breaks all ties with them...and then when he slaps gibbs and Gibbs gives him that understanding smile and shake of the head and the dukes "take what you can" "give nothing back"....Jack gets in the dingy...Jack seems quite happy and content..he is singing the song that Liz taugth him "and really bad eggs"...the compass points to the rum, he takes a swig, then the compass points somewhere else and he says "drink up me hearties yo-ho"....then the ten years later scene with a young boy singing that same song that we last heard jack singing....He and Liz are there on that cliff..there to greet will.....I just can't stop thinking there is some kind of message...something's not quite right. As I watched it i kept thinking..."jack's going to find Liz" Did Liz live a celibate life for ten years? Oh gosh why am i doing this to myself.... sorry for this long post....but I just wanted to talk about what and how I felt after watching AWE in it's entirety for only the second time...almost a year later.
Tigers, you could very well be right and even if you aren't, what a beautiful interpretation all its own. What's important to remember is that sparrabethers aren't wrong. DMC made it crystal clear that something is indeed going on between them. Even in T&T's commentary, they say the reason Liz leans in for that second kiss is to tell Jack she was feeling something. We aren't just imagining all this.
And you are so right about that last scene berween the two of them. Now I disagree with you on that kid being Jack's, but that's not to say that Liz would be celibate or deny her own feelings if her fidelity won't free Will. You can't really bring up the idea of an "open marriage" in a Disney movie. If you want to know what I think happens, check out my Propsed Arrangemets fic.
After bashing AWE for a whole entire year...and not even giving it an iota of a chance...I actually
...and I can't believe I'm typing this with me own fingers....
liked AWE when I re-watched it for only the second time one year later. If I take it into a Sparrabeth context....which I have. It's the only way I can bear the trilogy. It's the only way to make sense of the first two movies...especially Dead Man's Chest. It's the only way to make sense of all those clues and symbolisms that T and T threw at us. I believe that Jack is going after Liz at the end of AWE. I believe he lets Barbossa steal the Black Pearl on purpose. Why else would Jack leave Barbossa alone with the Pearl!? He doesn't trust him. I re-watched the Tortuga scene a couple more times before I returned AWE to the video store....and it seems as though Jack is putting on an act. Jack gets in the dingy...he already has a flag made with the red sparrow on it! Now isn't that just coincidental, eh? Jack just seems too happy and content. why isn't he getting Gibbs to help him? He needed Gibbs' help the last time he tried to get the Pearl back. He isn't going after the Pearl. He doesn't need the Pearl. He is going to get Lizzy and convince her to go with him on the Empress and help him find the Fountain of Youth.....now what happens on that journey and during those ten years is up for the imagination. The Sparrabeth in me is very hopeful.
And that's why I don't want a POTC4..because then it would ruin the ending for me and ruin how I interpret the films. So I am happy...
granted, AWE wasn't what I was hoping for, but it's all we got.
I'm not saying the kid is Jack's...to be honest I don't know what to think. It all boils down to....do I think they consumated their marriage, is it a real marriage? At some point, does Will set her free, realizing that it is unreasonable to expect her to wait 10 years for him? These are the scenarios I play out in my mind. These things are only clear to a sparrabether....because to take the movie at face value is too painful.
Savvy, I'm really interested in what you're talking about. I haven't seen the movie, but I've read the books.
Tigers, I do see what you're saying. AWE would be good had just a little more focus been put on the characters and a story rather than the action. Has anyone noticed that for a pirate movie, there are only two actual swordfights? One at the beginning and one at the end? The rest is talking. DMC didn't have too many swordfights but it made up for it with other pirate things...such as looking for a chest.
AWE just leaves so many mysteries, the biggest one being the curse. Why was such a big deal made about Will being free after 10 years if the dvd itself says that he's to be the captain of the Dutchman until someone stabs his heart. Even if that happens, does that mean he'll die? Also, why can't Liz go with him? Will was mortal when he was on the Dutchman when Davy captained it. Wouldn't being on the Dutchman just make her immortal too at the very worst?
And...if Will is cursed forever, no matter what, who is to say that he's going to be faithful to Liz? We all speculate about Liz's faithfulness to him, but why can't he pick up some shipwrecked girl and have a relationship with her?
I see what Tigers means. Jack is a little too calm about his ship being gone and he's planned ahead for it. Why plan ahead and yet not take any precautions? "Here, Barbossa, watch the ship while I scrounge for these whores I haven't seen for at least a year." Can anyone here really imagine Barbossa nodding his head and saying, "Sure thing, best friend?" And she has another point about Gibbs not going with him. True, Gibbs deserves a threesome, but in COTBP, the first thing Jack did was get Gibbs to help him round up a crew. But now he decides to go it alone? Not making sense.
And then in his little boat with his ready-made flag, Jack gets his compass out and seems very thrown off when it points to the rum, indicating he already has an idea about where he's going. If he just wanted to follow Barbossa, he would follow the compass blindly because without part of the map, Barbossa could be anywhere.
Has anyone here seen Maverick with Mel Gibson and Jodie Foster? If not, don't read anymore.
SPOILER: At the end, Jodie Foster's character steals Mel's money and leaves. A character says he knows why Mel left the money out in a place where it could so easily be stolen (because he's in love with Jodie Foster). Mel says it's going to be a lot of fun getting it back. We don't see the two of them getting back together, but we know he goes after her at the end. This proves the kind of ending Tigers talked about can indeed be a successful and plausible ending.
Ooh, Willo you absolutely MUST see it! I'd love to hear what you think of it. Its very different from the book and I really think that the execs at disney drew connections to Sparrabeth, I mean - my jaw literally dropped during this one scene (I won't spoil it for anyone that hasn't seen it) but it was SO CLOSE to a sparrabeth scene we had that my mind was spinning lol!!
Ah Willo...it's been a long time since I've seen Maverick..but that was a great ending..one that was left to the imagination. That is kind of the feeling I'm getting at the end of AWE. And yes ...you are right about Mr. Turner. I kind of envision that he too finds an immortal chick that he wants to be with...and that's why he decides to set Lizzy free.
What happened in Enchanted....was what I was hoping for with AWE before it came out..i was hoping that Tia would shed her vadoo look and they would reveal how pretty she really is..and she would go with Will and Jack and Liz could be together......or else have someone else for Will..cuz just like Enchanted...the relationship we saw grow and develop throughout the trilogy was Jack and Elizabeth....Will and Elizabeth was just already there...so it just seemed logical that was where it was headed. And perhaps it did......it's just not obvious. It's up to the imagination....and I have a wonderful imagination!
Oh Yay SPARRABETH discussion!! 🙂
Awww Tigers I totally get what your saying! You have once again opened my eyes!
That "It would have never worked out between us-Keep telling yourself that darling" scene always seemed like it had a deeper meaning to it! Like they were words masking other more revealing words! But what is amazing about that scene is that we get to see how profoundly Jack and Elizabeth understand each other. That smile that Jack gives her and the way she smiles back and then goes to kiss him again is like she forgets everything else and is just taken by the fact that Jack gets her! Words that seem like nothing to others mean the world to each other! Like they speak their own language that only they understand! I always felt it was their way of admitting to each other that Yes there are feelings there. I liked wha you said Tigers about her saying "If it were a different time" i could literally imagine her saying that!
And yes at the end Jack did seem like he planned ahead, like he was to calm about letting The Pearl go. But is it really a surprise? I mean yes The Pearl will always be Jack's baby but in DMC we clearly heard Jack say "She is only a ship mate!" Jack had already understood that there are more important things in life! And it makes sense Him singing the song that Lizzie taught him clearly symbolizing that he has Lizzie on the brain! And technically isn't RUM kind of like symbol for Lizzie in general bc of the "Why is the rum gone?" and being alone with her on Rum Runner Island drinking rum and her burning his rum? So when the compass points to the rum couldnt that symbolize the compass pointing to Lizzie? And his mind seems a little made up!
Oh yes Tigers....u've but the battery back into my mind cause it's going again! It's turning and plotting and imagining things!! ahhhhh! SPARRABETH FOREVER!!! 😍
*claps hands*
So much good discussion! I probably look like a dashboard dog because I keep nodding along with everything I read, lol!!! I'm totally agreeing with you guys, you've made some excellent points! Ah yes, the goodbye scene. *sighhhh*
Okay, I can't take it any longer, if you don't want to be spoiled for Prince Caspian, DON'T read below please!!! 😄😄
Spoiler:
Its the end of the movie and the four kids (Lucy, Edmund, Peter and Susan) are lined up by Aslan to go back from Narnia into England. Now througout the movie there had been quite a bit of flirting and UST between Susan and the latin rogue, Prince Caspian - but the impending battles kept anything from developing.Right as they're about to leave, they look at eachother and she slowly goes over to him and says (paraphrased since I can't remember exactly).
Susan: You know it never would've worked... *smile*
Caspian: And why not?
Susan: Well, I am 1300 years older then you *awkward, sad laugh*
Caspian: *sad smile*
Susan: It had been some other time...
Then she walks away a few steps, then turns around grabs him and kisses him. 😄😄
It was SO CLOSE to the bittersweet Sparrabeth ending I almost cried!!! Susan had all that firey passion but sweet, refined upbringing like Elizabeth. Caspian was the dark, latin loveable rogue, not quite like Jack, but pretty close.
Then, after she's kissed him, they both seem like they've reached a point where they can go their separate ways with some bit of peace. When she goes back to england, this pimply , round-faced boy who thinks her name is Phyllis starts hitting on her again (he'd done so earlier in the movie) *shudder* yeah, welcome back to reality susan. But he totally reminded me of the whelp, haha! She went from this Latin sex symbol in armor to...the whelp and it wasn't exactly her choice to do so either.
There is a bit more dialogue I think, but I can't remember exactly. I'll come back and correct this once I go see the movie again to make sure its right. But I wonder if Disney wasn't trying to give us a little prod (like I think they did with Enchanted). Showing us what could've been, what might've been meant to be and all. I mean, the ending for Prince Caspian was still really sad for Susan and Caspian, but they got that goodbye moment that we were kinda denyed. *sigh*
Okay, here endeth the ramble. 😛
Ah, dearest Diva....that was brilliant! Yes! I'd never thought of that before, but you are so right. The bottle of rum does represent Lizzy in a way...and in fact, ted and terry even tell us so in the DMC commentaries....so, the compass pointing to the bottle of rum at the end isn't so terrible afterall! But then just after it points to the rum, he picks it up and bites off the cap, then he smiles and looks at the compass and then it points in a direction toward the horizon and then he says "drink up me hearties, yo-ho" and takes a swig.....and off he goes into the sunset......and we last saw Liz looking into that same sunset standing alone on the beach!
Jack has come to realize that the Pearl isn't all that important to him anymore......it's as you say Diva...."she's only a ship, mate"......The pearl use to represent Freedom for Jack...it was all he had....but then the Pearl actually became the death of Jack....what once was his freedom became his prison...and then to top things off...Lizzy and Will were married on the Pearl...perhaps he wants no memories of that....so he has washed his hands of the Pearl! He stole the fountain of youth map from Barbossa...he had the crew drop him off in Tortuga...he made a flag with a red sparrow on it.....who left the dingy there.....would Barbossa and the crew actually leave a dingy there for Jack with a sparrow flag and a bottle of rum? Somehow I doubt it.
New video to Alanis Morisette's "Uninvited" 🙂
Double posting again *slaps hand* Sorry! But I couldn't resist sharing this CUTE poem I found on the Sparrabeth LJ by Julliel with you guys!! 😄😄 Enjoy!!
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"Lizzie, Lizzie, my lovely girl
pick up your heels and give us a twirl.
A wonderful, beautiful bride, you'll be
the picture of Venus for all to see."
A frown, right there, upon her face
she loathes to be in her proper place
A swan at heart, she longs to spread out her wings
to leave behind all thos dreadful things.
Of corsets, and parties, and sharply-dressed men
in the end, she'll be a busy mother hen.
With litters of children all under her care
discontent is inside her; she's no longer fair.
But Lizzie is clever to escape this grim fate
she gathers her courage and hides in a crate
As the ship leaves Port Royal, her heart soars in flight
the good Lord has answered her miserable plight.
She meets the ship's captain; Jack is his name
his taste for adventure is as big as his fame.
It turns out to be that this pirate's nice
unlike most others who never think twice.
Together they bond as they pillage and plunder
while the rest of the world looks at 'em in wonder.
Who would've thought that these two would wed?
If you asked Jack, here's what he'd have said:
"Lizzie, Lizzie, me bonnie lass
with a heart o' gold and full o' class.
An honest man she's made of me
by my side as we sail the sea.
"A pistol in hand and some rum in the other,
I cherish her more than I would a brother."
A rather strange couple, these two may be
but don't tell them that, they'd charge you a fee.
I don't know what it is, but does anyone else LOVE that in addition to Jack calling her darling and love and things like that after almost every other sentence, he is the only one that calls her Lizzie? There's something about it that adds a sweetness to their feelings.
What a spirited poem, savvy. I think it sums them up pretty well.
Miz WilloftheWisp, now there's that--with Will unable to easily, freely call her Elisabeth at her insistance and then Himself, lovingingly naming her Lizzie....Yes, falls right off the tongue and seems to claim her more 😛 --like a bit of a "nana nana poo poo..." to all the other "boys", see, I have this special name for her.
Just a look, just a breath, he smells her you know!! leans into it--closes his eyes to absorb all of her through his other senses. Yes, Captain Jack--I knows it's a sorta sad anniversary for Sparrabethers this Sunday coming, but gosh and golly, the series has sustained me through some rough old life and I'm grateful that they met and that he would even say, "It would never have worked between us" well, hell, I do believe that's the only lie that Jack ever told and certainly the only time he was wrong!! if he thought he was telling the truth.