Sparrabeth

What bugs me about it is that there are so many plot holes in the whole willabeth deal. Consider their wedding...hear me out, but I don't think it's valid. Willabethers on KTTC say that when Liz says, "Barbossa, we need you at the helm," she is turning over her captainage (captaincy?) to him. Now, okay, I'll give them the fact that temporarily, Jack is not the captain of the Pearl. Okay. Liz is. She's the freaking Pirate King and she's operating via the Pearl, so it is her ship during the battle. But taking the helm doesn't mean you're the captain. If it did, how many times would Cotton be the captain of the Pearl? Barbossa is not the captain of the Pearl and maybe it just slipped Liz's mind or maybe one of Jones' goons hit her on the head or something, but SHE is the captain of the Pearl, not Barbossa. Not a captain? Can't perform a mar-ri-age on this very deck. Sorry. What she and Will did is called fornication, not consummating a marriage.

Good point willo!! Barbossa is just the chartman 😉 Well, I see it exactly the same way. Had she called Gibbs at the helm, would he have performed a wedding?? Well, we all know as well that the Pearl belongs to Jack, even if he loses her everytime, so given that fact as well, for me just Jack is the only true captain of this ship, so in my opinion he's the only one who has the right to perform a mar-ri-age. And as well, they haven't signed anything, so who is a witness, you can't tell me that the other ones who were fighting for their lives have spent any attention to it.

*claps hands* I agree 100%! There is nothing about the "wedding" that makes it valid, and the storyline itself has so many holes in it, but T&T still expect us to believe that everything is hunky dory because they say it is. Barbossa didn't even pronounce them man and wife, not like he had any right to! Just because he mutinied against Jack and took the Pearl doesn't mean he's her rightful captain. I could take over a ship and there's no way I would ever been considered it's captain.

So should we petition? Slam Disney for accidentally implying premarital sex and showing an illegitimate kid at the end? Lol. It just doesn't make sense. You're right, Jack is the captain of the Pearl, always will be, but as Pirate King, Liz outranks him and she's using it, so she's the captain for the time being and she can't just pick someone and say, "Uh...you. Marry us." It doesn't work that way. But you know...she was so ready to be married maybe it was a fun way to trick Will into just doing her so she could have sex finally.

ya and then 10 years later Liz will bust out with the "Sorry Will but our marriage was invalid bc Barbossa wasn't technically Captain of the Pearl! So instead Ive married Jack and I have been fulfilling my every desire with him...MY REAL HUSBAND!!!" 🙂...hmmm You know what? that actually works for me!! I like that ending!! 😄 lol

Well, if you see it this way it's fine. But then they left the Will shocking part out, oh I would so love to see the whelps face!!!!!

And never understand why then she hadn't taken Jack's offer and perhaps Will. No one would chose freely the whelp over our Captain, or?? And why then did she want to kiss Jack again when they said goodbye? God, sometimes I think I'm too stupid to understand this movie!!

Which is why the kid part in the ending is probably an afterthought! I really don't think TnT meant Lizzy to have a child with Will. The whole sex on the beach thing with Will is an afterthought too.

And not that it's out-of-character for Will to have sex, but it does seem like an after-thought. I just can't get over that T&T didn't bother to make ANYONE happy, not even the willabethers. I'm fine with a willabeth ending. That's what COTBP was and we all love that movie. But AWE lacks the fun, the spirit of that movie. If you watched COTBP and got caught up in the love story part....(shame on you if you actually cared too much)....you were rooting for Will and Liz to get together and you got rewarded with the stiff sunset kiss. But in AWE, if you're still into the two of them, you are really pulling for them. Will and Liz's relationship in AWE is a major point of conflict in that movie and needs good resolution, and we think we get it when they put their differences aside and finally marry. But then the whole curse thing? WTF? It was a tease for the willabethers, which is worse than what was done to the sparrabethers. They just made sparrabeth a thing of the past and ignored it. They BUTCHERED willabeth.

how do you mean an afterthought I don't get this??

^The willabeth sex on the beach and lizzy with child scenes feel like they have been added AFTER the original script ending.

Those scenes feel rushed and out-of-place, so it makes it seem like they are more there because they HAVE to be, is what we're saying. And it's not the fact that they're willabeth. The wedding scene is actually very good and was probably an idea all along, that they would get married in the middle of a battle. The beach scene seems so...it seems out of character for both of them. I know they're both very brave and tough, but Will seems too resigned to it and the scene seems rushed, and then at the very end after the credits...why bother to show it? To say they have a kid? What's that matter if POTC4 is supposed to be a prequel of sorts?

Ah, well. Now I've got it! Yes, I do agree, especially the scene with the child, but I think they've done it without thinking that they want to do a sequel! What I hate as well is, that when Will is Captain he wears this bandana and it seems to me that he tries to be like Jack so that LIzzie will like him. I don't know, I think that was unesessary because Will is another character and person! And even Jack returning to his whores doesn't fit his character, I think he has changed so much during these films that he wouldn't leave Lizzie behind, like that he didn't care.

What I want to know is where the bandana came from in the first place.

^hahaha...funny...

There are many rumours regarding POTC 4 and the prequel one is just one of them. There's another one about the quest for the Fountain of Youth with both Jack and Barbossa fighting to get to it in a Jules Verne-type setting of fantastical creatures and machines. That would be ewwwwwww.....

Wow....I haven't been on here in like...forever. I miss the old days. I don't really have time to back read...but it seems we are talking about the crappy AWE ending. At one point I thought I had come to terms with it.....but now only because I interpret it how I want to. I tend to believe that sexual intercourse did not occur between Liz and old Eunich boy....the way I look at it....he's immortal.....he's dead for all points and purposes....can an immortal with no heart really produce offspring. I know its a fantasy movie so anythings possible. I just choose to believe that the marraige was never consumated and that they are just sharing a tender moment. I believe that Will has somehow let her know that she will look over his heart and be there on that one day every ten years..to visit like dear old friends...but that she is free to live a mortal life with a mortal man. I choose to beleive that there is some kind of unspoken understanding between Jack and Liz in the goodbye scene...."another place and another time".....

Jack is going to find Elizabeth when he leaves Tortuga. The compass points to the rum. Jack takes a swig. He's already seen the map so he knows how to find the FOY..he looks at the compass one last time and begins to sing that song ...."drink up me hearties yo-ho".....then we see a young boy singing that very song wearing a tricorn hat. I think that Jack and Elizabeth are married and the boy is their child. But that's just me. I know that's not what T and T nor Gore planned...but that's the way I see it......

and that's why I hope and pray there is no POTC4. It would totally ruin the implied Sparrabeth ending. I don't think a prequel would work unless they make it pretty fast...Johnny and crew are not getting any younger.

Tigers! I've missed you. Yes, I think the best course of action to take is for Will and Liz to sort of come to an amicable divorce. I worked for this woman and I didn't know for a long time that she was in her second marriage. She said she had married her best friend and that both of them tried to make it more than that, and when they realized that they were meant to love each other as friends, they decided to divorce so they could both find someone they could love as a spouse. I think that is what will ultimately happen for Will and Liz. After ten years, they won't be able to relate to each other at all, not at any level because it's like they're on two planes of existence. But I do think somehow the kid is Will's...

My point, is that I think within a year or two, Will and Liz will manage to see each other because she's the Pirate King and she's bound to be around when a ship goes down and there's Will to pick up the dead. He will tell her he's fallen for a girl he picked up and that he's content to sail forever with her and that he will always love Liz as a sister/friend. This frees Liz without breaking Will's heart (no pun intended) and she can go off and have adventures with her little boy and meet up with a certain pirate captain whose heart she stole a long while ago.

On a sunnier note: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOjpn9RVuI0&feature=related

Think you know everything about the kiss? I beg to differ. There is a TON of stuff going on here, so many little things. I couldn't believe it. I thought I had the thing memorized when I wrote it into my fic but I had to watch it again and again to get every little nuance. I don't care if Johnny thought it the most awkward kiss of his career. It's his best.

First of all, it doesn't show the long prelude when they're debating whether or not to abandon ship, but if you can find that, check out Jack's reaction when Liz says they have to head for land. Is it just me, or does he seem suspcious? And is it just me, or does he keep looking at her after she's done talking?

Anyways...

3:45 His eyes drop from her eyes straight to her lips. It makes me think that had she not had a scheme up her sleeve, he might have kissed her first.

3:48 Her eyes drop from his to his lips.

3:52 Notice both her hands have clenched his back, forcing him closer to her...

4:07 Okay, I think he's touching her with the hand we can't see. His arm is bent awkwardly and he's just thrown his head to the side in ecstasy...(sigh) so I think he's really getting into it. It almost looks like his arm is bent so he can touch her hip. I wonder.

4:09 My favorite part. Even though his eyes are closed, Jack's eyes have rolled back. Watch it slowly.

4:18 Has anyone noticed just how slowly Liz's hand breaks away from his? It's such a great contrast from the determined look on her face. Such angst.

4:25 Her eyes are back on his lips again, even after she's chained him. Who thinks she did this just to save herself, Will, and the crew? Anyone? Hmm.

4:30 Look how close they are! Look how close they are! Look how close they are! Look how close they are! Look how close they are! Look how close they are!

4:41 Locked eyes. I think this parallels that part in COTBP when he tells her they are peas in a pod. He's pretty much telling her the same thing here, and even though that fact scares her a little, she can't look away from him.

4:46 I was right! His arm drops down when she leaves. It was touching her waist/hip in some way. Who says Jack was too passive in this kiss? He was feeling her up on the other side! That's how it got past the censors!

Okay, I'm bumping this up because how the hell did it get so far down the page? This is like the heart of our forum! Doesn't anyone have any sparrabeth-related stuff to gush about? I'd even take someone bashing it right now so we can have a debate.

Sparrabeth is the hottest ship in the Caribbean!

wow...I haven't been on here in the longest time. I'm so glad to see that the forum is still going!

I probably don't have much to add, but I agree with Tigers about interpreting the ending the way we want. It's taken me awhile to get over the fact that it's not a direct Sparrabeth ending, but when I look at the little things...the expressions of the characters, their actions...it looks like we can think what we want. The directors had a tough decision to make. It was either JE or WE, and one group had to end up disappointed. Although I would have loved a Sparrabeth ending, I have to give the directors credit for at least leaving it open for interpretation.

As for my interpretation...it's definitely Sparrabeth! I agree with Tigers again; there was a sort of unspoken agreement between Jack and Elizabeth. Maybe not now, but we'll meet again someday. They didn't say goodbye, not really.

On a more practical note, while Will is immortal, Elizabeth is not. She ages, and he doesn't (no proof of this, but it seems implied). Thinking realistically, could you remain faithful to someone who you would only see maybe six or seven times more in your lifetime, with ten year gaps between each meeting? Although I'd like to believe it, it's not likely, especially for Elizabeth who realized her potential with Jack.

And has anyone ever thought about her child? The probability that he'll accept Will as a father is very small. After all, he will only see the man for the first time when he is 10, and then once every ten years after that. He might need a father figure, and although Jack isn't the best role model in some ways, Elizabeth looked up to him and respects him, so her son is likely to do so in turn.

I can't tell at this point if that made any sense. Basically, I have high hopes for a Sparrabeth future. If I can't have it onscreen, at least I can have it in my mind!

Wow, I've been away for so long! I've missed my precious Sparrabeth. *sighs* Willo, I watched the kiss and referred to your notes, and I just about died when I saw his arm!! I've seen the Sparrabeth kiss literally hundreds of times, but it never loses its thrill. I love watching it in slow motion. It's so dirty... 😛 My favorite part is when his mouth opens the tiniest bit when she goes to kiss him again. And, of course, how he keep his eyes on her mouth the entire time...😍