Atheists and Theists

Started by The Wishmaster32 pages
Originally posted by Eis
How is it ignorant? I honestly can't say how anyone could possibly say there is no God.

Can you prove there IS a God?

This argument is painful.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Okay, let me make this clear, Atheists do not fully 100% believe in the non-existance of God, they don't see it as impossible. That seems to be what all people think of atheists in this thread.

An atheist refuses to accept the belief of God (or doesn't know of the belief of God -- not what I'm talking about), that doesn't mean atheists are like theists only opposite, an atheist sees God as an improbability and sees uselessness in believing in it. They don't see it as an impossibilty, that's just dumb. If you actually read atheist posts and understand what they mean, you'd know that.

Well I suppose it could depend on your definition of the word Atheist, but if what you believe is simply that the idea of a deity is unlikely then isn't it essentially the same as the belief of an agnostic? That with the present knowledge we have, we simply cannot know for certain whether God exists or not?

Also, Reading self-acclaimed atheists' post is rather useless since people often label themselves as things they don't really understand.

Originally posted by Eis
Also, Reading self-acclaimed atheists' post is rather useless since people often label themselves as things they don't really understand.

I concur. Evident throughout this thread, too.

Originally posted by lord xyz
This argument is painful.

Not to mention counter productive.

Originally posted by Eis
Well I suppose it could depend on your definition of the word Atheist, but if what you believe is simply that the idea of a deity is unlikely then isn't it essentially the same as the belief of an agnostic? That with the present knowledge we have, we simply cannot know for certain whether God exists or not?

Also, Reading self-acclaimed atheists' post is rather useless since people often label themselves as things they don't really understand.

Great post.

Originally posted by Eis
Well I suppose it could depend on your definition of the word Atheist, but if what you believe is simply that the idea of a deity is unlikely then isn't it essentially the same as the belief of an agnostic? That with the present knowledge we have, we simply cannot know for certain whether God exists or not?

Also, Reading self-acclaimed atheists' post is rather useless since people often label themselves as things they don't really understand.

Once again, it depends on what type of Agnostic we're talking about here.

That's no excuse to take the with a pinch of salt.

Originally posted by Eis
How is it ignorant? I honestly can't say how anyone could possibly say there is no God. The lack of proof is not proof by itself.

That being said, who's to say ghosts or magic doesn't exist?

The same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is a god, is the same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is no god.

Nobody knows....we just say what we beleive.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is a god, is the same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is no god.

Nobody knows....we just say what we beleive.

your rationality frightens me

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
your rationality frightens me

And why is that ?

because you are so rarely nonbeligerent and change scares me

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is a god, is the same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is no god.

Nobody knows....we just say what we beleive.

...Idiot.

I have a question: If the atheists don't believe in God, how do they think mankind or the rest of the universe came to be?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is a god, is the same mode of reasoning that goes behind saying there is no god.

Nobody knows....we just say what we beleive.

Okay, LU, you have a point there. But I have a serious query: What idea or theory do you have that holds rational support for your conviction that God doesnt exist?

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Okay, LU, you have a point there. But I have a serious query: What idea or theory do you have that holds rational support for your conviction that God doesnt exist?
1. No evidence
2. No or little logic behind the idea
3. No point in believing it
4. Believing in it gets us no where and doesn't advance us scientifically, in fact, it does the opposite

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1. No evidence
2. No or little logic behind the idea
3. No point in believing it
4. Believing in it gets us no where and doesn't advance us scientifically, in fact, it does the opposite
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1. Evidence: if you have not read that article about the Padayachee family I posted in the Atheism thread, go read it. Apart from that, Jesus Christ's existence is the evidence you should consider.

2. Point and Logic: we are all here for a purpose and life has a meaning. Even Einstein was wise enough to realise that God doesnt play dice with the world.

3. Point in believing: God made us in his image and as the object of his love. He also wants us to love him back and trust him fully. You must realise that he is loyal to us and never leaves us. The trust, security and forgiveness we receive from Him is the result of our trust in Him. He also left us a manual from which our moral standards are to be derived from and where the truth can be found: The Bible.

4. Let me tell you what the ways of world have taught us: only the strongest survive, you cannot succeed without someone else failing, there is no absolute good or evil, the more money you have the more respectful you are in society, war is the health of the state, people die everyday and there's no reason in stopping this natural process. Now, let me tell you a few attributes you would acquire if you were to fully believe and trust Him: wisdom, righteousnous, courage, endurance, and the very best of all - eternal life.

Now, you tell me what the point or purpose of atheism is.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
I have a question: If the atheists don't believe in God, how do they think mankind or the rest of the universe came to be?
Science.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
1. Evidence: if you have not read that article about the Padayachee family I posted in the Atheism thread, go read it. Apart from that, Jesus Christ's existence is the evidence you should consider.
How does a fairy tale about Jesus prove the existence of God? See, this is the kind of retarded logic you people use, one part in the Bible doesn't prove the other parts.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
2. Point and Logic: we are all here for a purpose and life has a meaning. Even Einstein was wise enough to realise that God doesnt play dice with the world.
Can you prove like has meaning?

Originally posted by Up In Flames
3. Point in believing: God made us in his image and as the object of his love.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
He also wants us to love him back and trust him fully.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
You must realise that he is loyal to us and never leaves us.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
The trust, security and forgiveness we receive from Him is the result of our trust in Him.
Prove it.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
He also left us a manual from which our moral standards are to be derived from and where the truth can be found: The Bible.
Prove it. The Bible was written by man, God was made up by man. Until it is proven, it's nothing but a fairy tale.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
4. Let me tell you what the ways of world have taught us: only the strongest survive, you cannot succeed without someone else failing, there is no absolute good or evil, the more money you have the more respectful you are in society, war is the health of the state, people die everyday and there's no reason in stopping this natural process.
I'm impressed. Did you work that out by yourself? Because I did, and I agree with you. For once, you've said something smart.
Originally posted by Up In Flames
Now, let me tell you a few attributes you would acquire if you were to fully believe and trust Him: wisdom, righteousnous, courage, endurance, and the very best of all - eternal life.
Is that why Darwin was wise, righteous, courageous and endure, whereas Fitzroy was the opposite. And what's this about immortality? If you find me an immortal christian, even one that lives past the age of 150, then I will gladfully admit my defeat, until then, stop making shit up.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Now, you tell me what the point or purpose of atheism is.
To find the truth.

Theist: God = answer to everything.
Atheist: God = not answer to everything.
Theist: So what is the answer to everything?
Atheist: Lets find out, who knows, maybe the cause of the sky has a different answer than why we don't fly off in space.
Theist: Nah, God did it, it says so here [shows holy text written by someone who died ages ago]
Atheist: What does that prove? For all you know he could be lying.
Theist: Not if you have faith.
Atheist: (walks away to find the answer using scientific tests)

Later

Theist: You got the answer then?
Atheist: Yes, it seems we don't fly off into space because the Earth, like everything else, has gravity, (a special force that pulls things towards it) it is so strong we can't escape it.
Theist: Well that's good, but you're saying Gravity, I'm saying God, so it's the same argument, neither can be proven.
Atheist: But I can here [proof of gravity]
Theist: Oh yah, well I have this [religious text]
Atheist: Didn't I already say that could be a lie?
Theist: Yeah well, so can that. There.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by Up In Flames
Okay, LU, you have a point there. But I have a serious query: What idea or theory do you have that holds rational support for your conviction that God doesnt exist?

I have pretty much stated why I do not beleive in the Ahramaic version of God numerous times on every single thread, to the point where I have been accused of bashing Christianity. So I'd rather not go into it with detail, but I will explain.

Lord xyz has pretty much given enough of an argument, but he has only spoken for himself, not for me.

You have to understand, I grew up Christian. I was Christian for 18 years of my life....I grew up beleiving in your God, i was raised and taught to beleive, but i just don't at this point in my life.

Logically, I can not see how the Biblical God can be the true creator of the universe. This universe is such a balance of order and chaos, routine and randonmess, cycles and all, I cannot see how a sexist, conservative, prejudice, uptight God created all of this.

Why would the creator of the Universe give a shit who I have sex with, or give a shit what you or I beleive, or ne thing with such superfical value at all ?

Why would creator care about our little traditions and "values" when this creator makes blackholes, planets explode, stars explode, etc.

I have hundreds of more reasons, and I am tired of arguing the same shit over and over.

I just don't beleive.

Not because I don't want to....It would be so much easier for me to live my life If I beleived that an all powerful being was watching over me. But that's a dramatic fairy tale...i dont buy it.

Plus the multitude of hypocrits who represent him, the criminals who claim to know God's will, the biblical contradictions, the hypocrite and sexist that God is in the Bible, the murderer....how many people has God himself killed according to the bible ?

I refuse to worship a violent and immature being.....

How can a Loving God create a place of eternal torment, it's such bullshit to me......

Why is it that only men wrote the bible ?

Why is it that there are so many Pagan concepts in the Bible when Christianity condemns paganism ? why are there so many parallels to Greek mythology, Egyptian mythology, Zoroastrianism, etc ?

There are too many questions, contradictions, and irrationalities that arise within the Bible, Quran, Torah, and all that mainstream monotheistic text....

It doesn't work for me.....and after 18 years of dedicating my life to the beleif in this God, I refuse to waste ne more time on something that does not fit for me.....on something that has no proof, something that I just grew not to like...

Now, you may judge me and say how sinful I am, or how the devil has corrupted my soul, or some bullshit like that, but the Truth is you know nothing about me, and you could never truly understand why I am a non beleiver, unless you lived my life, seen through my eyes, and lived in my mind.

That was a brilliant post Urizen, it really speaks to me and shows you're not just some show off atheist, I realise that, you do care about christianity and have thought it through. Thank you for that post, and may your life be long and happy.

(I even feel like saying God bless you now.)

Originally posted by lord xyz
That was a brilliant post Urizen, it really speaks to me and shows you're not just some show off atheist, I realise that, you do care about christianity and have thought it through. Thank you for that post, and may your life be long and happy.

(I even feel like saying God bless you now.)

It really means a lot to me that you think that. Thanks a lot 😄

*knock knock*

HOUSEKEEPING!