Abraxas VS Lucifer Morningstar

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Changes nothing.

Abraxas' power erodes the dimensional barriers that maintains the multiversal structure, the independence of the alternate realities of the multiverse.

He affected the structural integrity of the multiverse as he hopped from reality to reality killing alternate Galactus' because his power attacks the dimensional walls that separate realities.

Its akin to removing the keystone from a bridge thereby compromising its structural integrity making the whole bridge collapse. I could go up to a bridge and chisel away at its keystone, causing it to crumble. I could go around doing that to many bridges, one at a time.

Would it be in my power to make the entire bridge crumble at once in one sweep?

All the bridges i've gone around collapsing, could i make them all simulatenously crumble with a single exertion?

When Abraxas has been shown to be able to manipulate the matter of an entire universe at any given time, or destroy a reality in an outburst of power as opposed to attacking its foundations triggering its eventual collapse then you can equate him to the likes of Eternity and beyond.

When Abraxas has shown that he can reach out and simultaneously cause all multiversal realities to crumble as opposed to hopping from universe to universe weakening the structure, then you can count him a multiversal power.

Theres A BIG difference between role and power level. Someone can be labelled a multiversal destroyer, but that doesnt make them a multiversal power. Someone can be a universal scale power but travel from reality to reality causing destruction across the multiverse. They'd be very much universal, they'd just operate on a bigger scale.

If that same person could destroy or manipulate the matter of several universes simulatneously, THEN they would be a multiversal power.

I only reply for the onlookers lest one gets mixed up in your web of fallacies.

Meh, whatever. 🙂 Enjoy yourself.

I'll leave this thread with the facts!

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Abraxas ... his purpose if to erase the infinite Prime Multiverse from existence:

Franklin says about the Omniversal Guardian:

"That's Roma, she's gonna help us fight the dark man" (Abraxas)

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Roma (Omniversal Guardian) makes it clear:

"And if we do not act soon ... All of Time will be lost to us"

Abraxas is a Multiversal power of Omniversal significance.
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Here are Nine Universes that would later be destroyed by Abraxas:

"Imagine each of those Worlds like sand in an hourglass ...
an hourglass which Abraxas will shatter"

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This is aside from these UniverseS Abraxas collapsed:

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Meh,

And Abraxas only needs to approach UniverseS to collapse them:
(he doesn't even need to attack or enter said Realities) 🙂

(the Multiverse in fact)

"creatures of the Multiverse Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself

This ... is what brings Abraxas" (like I said, just by approaching)

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continues in the nest post ...

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Here are some Bio excerpts,
to confirm my posts which only contain the On Panel evidence:

(reference-Official Marvel Handbook 2006 - Abraxas bio)

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How Abraxas folds/collapses Universes:

"While Abraxas drew near,
the walls of dimensional space began to blur" (fold/collapse)

It goes on to explain the ramifications of Abraxas approaching Realities.

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We shouldn't be surprised ... it's his Job:

Occupation: "Dimensional Destroyer"

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Evidently, only a power UN-like can defeat Abraxas:

"Realizing the danger Abraxas posed,
the FF went on a Dimension-hopping journey to recover the UN,
the One weapon that could destroy him"

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Indeed, Roma (Omniversal Guardian) stated the same thing On Panel:

Roma: "It will be a weapon of unimaginable power that will WIN This day"

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Here Galactus says it, and Reed realizes this truth:

Galactus: "But This Time, This Day can end ONLY one way"

Reed: "Yes .... God help me, I can see that now"

Abraxas secondary bio:

"He can restructure matter and convert physical matter into pure energy ...
he has destroyed entire PLANES of Reality"

On Panel confirmation:

"We're dealing with a being of Godlike powers,
BENDING Reality means nothing to him"

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As presented above,
entire Universes were being warped by Abraxas' presence,
heck, the ENITRE Multiverse was collapsing under Abraxas' power.

whistling

Abraxas was collapsing the entire Multiverse,
and it's in his powerset to manipulate reality:

Here Reed says,

"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"...

Because the Multiverse is misaligned due to Abraxas

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Here Nova says,

"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"

Again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart.

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Finally what does this lead to?

Reed,

"In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

==============================

What was MISALIGNED that NEEDED to be REALIGNED?

The MULTI-VERSE!

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Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse:

UN Destroys the Multiverse:

UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

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UN is a Multiversal weapon ... Reed says,

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

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Originally posted by Mr Master
The usual spin/twist/warp of the truth, even with the proof in your face,
which is why debating with you is pointless, I'm done.

I only reply for the onlookers lest one gets mixed up in your web of fallacies.

Meh, whatever. 🙂 Enjoy yourself.

No spin at all. So i see you've gone for your usual ploy of posting the same scans again despite the fact that they show nothing new? 😕

Abraxas' power attacks the dimensional walls that are the structure of the multiverse. When he nears a reality that wall begins to blur.

Abraxas hopped from reality to reality, therefore walls across the multiverses were attacked. He never did it simultaneously, therefore your argument regarding him being a multiversal power is unfounded.

For example, Thanos barely posesses enough power to devastate a single planet in a single outburst of power, however because he travels all over the 616 reality and his schemes encompass and affect the reality as a whole he is classed as a universal threat, despite him far from being a universal power.

Galactus is a planet eater, however if he decided to hop around multiple realities eating planets as he saw fit then he would be classed as a multiversal threat.

Role and threat level do not necessarily equate to power level. 🙂

Abraxas did the equivalent of removing the keystone from a bridge. He affected the structural integrity of universal structures, not all at once, but one by one as he travelled taking out alternate Galactus'.

Abraxas has no high level energy manipulation feats to his name. He has done nothing to place him on a level ranking with the likes of Eternity.

What he has done however is proven himsel fto be a threat on a multiversal scale, because his schemes extend beyond a single reality. 😄

And dozy doe your partner - durznuts

I'm done.

Originally posted by Mr Master
And dozy doe your partner - durznuts

I'm done.

Cool.

Out of the two, Lucifer is the only one who has demonstrated matter/energy manipulation abilities(when he manipulated Michaels demiurgic matter into his own creation) on a universal scale.

Lucifer FTW. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Out of the two, Lucifer is the only one who has demonstrated matter/energy manipulation abilities(when he manipulated Michaels demiurgic matter into his own creation) on a universal scale.

Originally posted by Galan007
On a Multiversal scale, actually. 🙂

Sorry Galan, thats a big misconception.

The Lucifer series along with GM's New X-men run and Preacher is my fave comic series of all time. I'm not just a Marvel boy 😬

Behold 😱

"He has never made a universe before, but he watched while it was done and he is a quick study"

"He has no authority to permit or proscribe in my universe"

One fansite( a well made one but a fansite nontheless) said it was a multiverse and ever since then comic fans internet wide have being saying it as well. On panel that is NOT the case.

"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

🙂.

Originally posted by Galan007
"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

🙂.

In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?

It would be good to have this matter cleared up. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007

"What I've created is not a realm. It is a totality, a Multiverse."

🙂.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?

It would be good to have this matter cleared up.

Its funny how some people post perfect proof with scans, and others still reject it. Its one thing to fight where there is barely any proof, and if the 2 fighters are close in level.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
In the main title it makes several other references to it being a universe as well. That was a spin off i believe.

Furthermore Elaine Belloc in the end absorbs both Lucifers universe and the Yahwehs into her own, making them one.

Any other on panel references to the scale of Lucifers creation, because throughout the main title on half a dozen occassions it referred to as a universe?

It would be good to have this matter cleared up. 🙂

But that is the 'most current' information we have on Lucifer's creation, [ie. him calling it a Multiverse] -- so logically speaking, that's the information we should accept as fact.

It would be no different than if a comic were released today, which had Superman himself saying K-Nite no longer has any affect on him...

Would we just disregard that statement simply because there are statements pre-dating it, which say K-Nite has an affect on Superman? Not imo, [because the 'more current' info says otherwise]. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
I see where you're coming from...

But that is the 'most current' information we have on Lucifer's creation, [ie. him calling it a Multiverse] -- so logically speaking, that's the information we should accept as fact.

It would be no different than if a comic were released today, which had Superman himself saying K-Nite no longer has any affect on him...

Would we just disregard that statement simply because there are statements pre-dating it, which say K-Nite has an affect on Superman? Not imo, [because the 'more current' info says otherwise]. 🙂

The Lucifer title only ended in Summer 2006, so it is a recent source and it was the main title. Throughout the title Lucifers creation was referred to as a universe. On top of that, Lucifers creation was eventually joined with Yahwehs and Elaines own, so during which timeframe is your scan set and what title is it? 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

The usual spin.

Spin? Dont be so bitter Emmie 😬

The main title says "universe" consistently for 60 issues. Ive posted two instances of the universe reference. No spin present im afraid 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Lucifer title only ended in Summer 2006, so it is a recent source and it was the main title. Throughout the title Lucifers creation was referred to as a universe. On top of that, Lucifers creation was eventually joined with Yahwehs and Elaines own, so during which timeframe is your scan set and what title is it? 🙂

Lucifer takes him apart.

The one shot is also collected in the final trade of Lucifer, as part of the series.