That you did the same thing you accused me of, thus becoming a hypocrite?
That's great, keep it up, keep on proving how you really don't get it.
Where did I say that? I said he no more got caught off guard than the others, and that the defeat was just as legitimate and just as final.
Originally posted by Gideon
And "caught off guard"? Bullshit.
^ZOMG, what's that?
What the one that doesn't make sense, and essentially displayed that you don't know the difference between catching someone offguard and besting them, lol! But really, it's there in black and white, you might actually have a point if you used a word like 'except' or 'but', but you didn't. You plainly made clear that you didn't think that he was caught off guard, and labelled General Kenobi's belief as 'bullshit'.
Originally posted by The Planet
What the one that doesn't make sense, and essentially displayed that you don't know the difference between catching someone offguard and besting them, lol! But really, it's there in black and white, you might actually have a point if you used a word like 'except' or 'but', but you didn't. You plainly made clear that you didn't think that he was caught off guard, and labelled General Kenobi's belief as 'bullshit'.
Good to see that you have telepathy imbued with your "extreme debating skillz!!111", lmao. I wasn't aware you could use ESP to realize what exactly I think in the privacy of my own mind. 😉
But, anyways, let me shut this door for you. I made it plainly clear that I though - and still think - that he was no more caught off guard than the others. No one makes an issue out of them, so an issue shouldn't be made out of this. They were each finishing moves made in the heat of battle. It happens, it was legitimate, and if Kenobi were possessing "mad skillz!!11!" (like your debating ones, lmao) he would have likely expected it.
Each of these guys lost the fight because they did not anticipate their opponent's move. This is a sign of inferiority in that particular situation, though I do agree that it isn't indicative overall of superiority. But, they lost, either due to a lack of foresight, or arrogance.
In either case, the move was legitimate and proves Count Dooku's superior tactics.
Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
Especially from the point of view of the onlooker!
😛
😛
It brought tears to my eyes. No damn joke. I called a friend of mine who visits the forums, crying.
Planet, I'll be back later, lol. Going out to eat with some family, and we can continue this later if you want.
In any event, and I really don't know what's been said, but here's my prediction of the battle:
Anakin rushes at Dooku, and the two begin fighting in an instant. Obi-wan and Maul enter combat. Anakin is hacking away at Dooku while Maul, for the second time, gets his sorry @$$ cut in half. Dooku then kills or severely wounds Kenobi. Anakin then uses his anger to send Dooku, once again, to the Promised Land.
Dude, he ripped the ****ing restraints off of the metal. He didn't pick the damn thing up and throw it. It's bullshit like that that makes me lose my patience with you on this issue. Grievous dodged Force attacks in CW, not in RotS.
1.) First off, I have to re-watch that. And second of all, so what? That little restraint was holding a frickin ton and Kenobi managed to unclasp it and throw it away and bring down the metal ton on to the Magnaguards.
2.) EU Grievous is not >>>>> ROTS Grievous. Yes, the Force Crush was deadly, but how powerless do you think ROTS Grievous is man? And the point was he threw Grievous a good hundred feet away plus fifty feet into the air.
And "caught off guard"? Bullshit. Anyone who lands a move on a Jedi or a Sith, technically, caught them off guard. Mace caught Sidious off guard when he kicked him in the face, Sidious caught Yoda off guard when he blasted him with lightning, Yoda caught Sidious off guard when he Force pushed him.
Like Planet has countlessly said, you don't get it. Obi-Wan and Anakin were dueling Dooku and all three combatants were playing around with each other. Dooku gets desperate and does a Force Push that knocks Obi-Wan some twenty feet away. However, this is hardly Dooku at this best. Thus when Kenobi came at him, he at all didn't expect such a masterful Kick-Choke-Throw from Dooku. He didn't think Dooku would resort to the trump card and do a vicious combo like that. The whole fight up to that point was a lightsaber duel, and besides that Force Push that didn't do much damage, Obi-Wan had no fvcking defense to a surprise combo and a withering telekinetic blow that knocks him out cold, because up to that point Dooku didn't cut the shit, and when he did, Kenobi was totally unprepared.
And please, Mace and Sidious were fighting a lightsaber duel. Both of them were trying (because if they didn't, they would get killed) and Mace gets a kick on Sidious. A kick is a fighting manuever. We see Anakin use on Obi-Wan on Mustafar. It's not Mace wasn't trying and then suddenly he cut the shit and fvcked Sidious up....
Each of these guys lost the fight because they did not anticipate their opponent's move. This is a sign of inferiority in that particular situation, though I do agree that it isn't indicative overall of superiority. But, they lost, either due to a lack of foresight, or arrogance.
You're right, Obi-Wan lost because he did not expect Dooku to cut shit and not be arrogant. My point is because of that move Dooku does, it doesn't automatically equate to Dooku >>>>>>>>>> Kenobi because he surprises him with an attack Obi-Wan had no defense to.
1.) First off, I have to re-watch that. And second of all, so what? That little restraint was holding a frickin ton and Kenobi managed to unclasp it and throw it away and bring down the metal ton on to the Magnaguards.
Go right ahead, Prodigal. However, if you are assuming that merely crushing the restraint that kept the metal suspended equates to him being capable of lifting the metal itself and throwing it, you are deluded. A similar feat was performed by Count Dooku himself in Attack of the Clones. He crushed the bottom support of that massive column, during his saberlock with Yoda. That doesn't mean that he ripped the damn thing out of the ground and hurled it like a brick. He simply crushed the bottom and let gravity finish the job.
Which is precisely what Obi-Wan did. Period.
2.) EU Grievous is not >>>>> ROTS Grievous. Yes, the Force Crush was deadly, but how powerless do you think ROTS Grievous is man? And the point was he threw Grievous a good hundred feet away plus fifty feet into the air.
Irrelevent. Though General Grievous is a deadly opponent, don't mistake him for possessing the intense Force-power of a Jedi. Him chucking Grievous is like someone tossing a Super battle droid. Again, this does not indicate that he is anywhere close to Dooku on the Force totem pole.
Like Planet has countlessly said, you don't get it. Obi-Wan and Anakin were dueling Dooku and all three combatants were playing around with each other. Dooku gets desperate and does a Force Push that knocks Obi-Wan some twenty feet away. However, this is hardly Dooku at this best. Thus when Kenobi came at him, he at all didn't expect such a masterful Kick-Choke-Throw from Dooku. He didn't think Dooku would resort to the trump card and do a vicious combo like that. The whole fight up to that point was a lightsaber duel, and besides that Force Push that didn't do much damage, Obi-Wan had no fvcking defense to a surprise combo and a withering telekinetic blow that knocks him out cold, because up to that point Dooku didn't cut the shit, and when he did, Kenobi was totally unprepared.
Lmao, hysterics aside, it is The Planet who doesn't get it. When one enters a duel, one understands that there is a chance that he or she will be confronted with the unexpected. I have cited several examples of situations in which one combatant has been nearly done in or beaten by an attack that he or she did not expect.
That doesn't mean, however, that the attack wasn't legitimate, or "fair". That is what you do, Prodigal, when you fight. The combatant seeks to outfight his opponent by throwing at him something that he cannot expect or defend against.
Otherwise, duels would go on and on and on and on and on forever.
And please, Mace and Sidious were fighting a lightsaber duel.
Oh... I see... Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Count Dooku weren't fighting in a lightsaber duel. Yes, of course. It must have been Christmas wrapping paper rolls that they were using to fight one another. Must've been pretty damn hot and sharp.
Both of them were trying (because if they didn't, they would get killed) and Mace gets a kick on Sidious. A kick is a fighting manuever. We see Anakin use on Obi-Wan on Mustafar. It's not Mace wasn't trying and then suddenly he cut the shit and fvcked Sidious up....
No kidding. A Force attack, too, is a fighting maneuver in Star Wars. Deal with it.
Bottom line: Sidious wasn't expecting the kick. Quit trying to throw bullshit logic into the fray to support your favorite movie character. Sidious was faced with the same sort of situation that Obi-Wan was - that is to say - he was bested by an attack that he didn't expect and likely couldn't have defended himself against even if he did.
Same situation, same outcome.
As for Dooku vs. Anakin and Obi-Wan, Dooku couldn't handle them both in a lightsaber duel for a prolonged period of time.
You're right, Obi-Wan lost because he did not expect Dooku to cut shit and not be arrogant. My point is because of that move Dooku does, it doesn't automatically equate to Dooku >>>>>>>>>> Kenobi because he surprises him with an attack Obi-Wan had no defense to.
Again, by the very same logic, Sidious lost because he didn't expect to get a kick from Mace; Yoda nearly died because he didn't expect a blast of Force lightning; Sidious was nearly bested because he didn't expect a Force push from Yoda; Mace lost because he didn't expect the "weak" Palpatine to get back up and Bar-b-que his ass; Anakin got his shit amputated because he didn't expect Obi-Wan to take a swing and dismember him; Grievous wasn't expecting a Force push; Obi-Wan wasn't expecting to get Force pushed into a melting pit.
Obi-Wan got flung like a ragdoll twice in that movie. Dooku Force pushed him out of the fight initially, and did it again, except the second time was with more finality.
Quit being such a fanboy of Obi-Wan that you have your head up your ass.
Obi-Wan's defense would allow him to be a problem to Count Dooku in a saber lock, and in that, he could last a while. Offensively? Hell no. Dooku's a far better offensive duelist. And, last, but not least, in a Force fight? No. Obi-Wan is much weaker than Count Dooku in the Force and does not possess his versatility in power or mastery of it.
Part 1:
Go right ahead, Prodigal. However, if you are assuming that merely crushing the restraint that kept the metal suspended equates to him being capable of lifting the metal itself and throwing it, you are deluded. A similar feat was performed by Count Dooku himself in Attack of the Clones. He crushed the bottom support of that massive column, during his saberlock with Yoda. That doesn't mean that he ripped the damn thing out of the ground and hurled it like a brick. He simply crushed the bottom and let gravity finish the job.
The feat is nevertheless impressive as he able to crush the restraint and then have the metal fall upon the MagnaGuards. To make sure though, I shall verify this.
Irrelevent. Though General Grievous is a deadly opponent, don't mistake him for possessing the intense Force-power of a Jedi. Him chucking Grievous is like someone tossing a Super battle droid. Again, this does not indicate that he is anywhere close to Dooku on the Force totem pole
Hardly, there is a clear difference between tossing Grievous and tossing a Super Battle Droid. Grievous is perfectly capable of dodging Force attacks. Just because he was wounded doesn't mean he incapable of dodging. The strength which Obi-Wan threw him away like a ragdoll is the impressive part.
Lmao, hysterics aside, it is The Planet who doesn't get it. When one enters a duel, one understands that there is a chance that he or she will be confronted with the unexpected. I have cited several examples of situations in which one combatant has been nearly done in or beaten by an attack that he or she did not expect.That doesn't mean, however, that the attack wasn't legitimate, or "fair". That is what you do, Prodigal, when you fight. The combatant seeks to outfight his opponent by throwing at him something that he cannot expect or defend against.
Otherwise, duels would go on and on and on and on and on forever.
Indeed, that is true to an extent. However, listen up:
My point is that had Dooku actually tried from the beginning onwards, the duel would have played out differently. Obi-Wan Kenobi would have not gotten owned in four seconds. Next, Kenobi would have a defense and he would lasted for maybe thirty or forty seconds, the correct time of survival.
When Anakin and Obi-Wan go on the offensive against Dooku, they pretty much figure out that the Count is not trying by his lazy blocks and such. I’m just saying that Obi-Wan wasn’t aware of Dooku cutting the shit and actually 100% trying. This is why he just goes on the offensive again with that saber hit, because he’s expecting another prolonged lightsaber fight. This backfires and he gets thrown away.
This is a sign of inferiority but nevertheless; catching somebody off guard doesn't mean automatically better. For example, remember when Padawan Kenobi cuts Maul up. Maul was caught off guard by Obi-Wan's Jump behind him. He has no defense to Kenobi's strike and thus gets owned. However, you cannot say Obi-Wan >> Maul because of that.
Oh... I see... Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Count Dooku weren't fighting in a lightsaber duel. Yes, of course. It must have been Christmas wrapping paper rolls that they were using to fight one another. Must've been pretty damn hot and sharp.
Wow, please stop the hedging. Seriously, stop trying to make me look bad, because fyi: it's embarrassing you. Did I ever say the Duel in the Invisible Hand wasn't a lightsaber fight? Please tell me if you do.
Bottom line: Sidious wasn't expecting the kick. Quit trying to throw bullshit logic into the fray to support your favorite movie character. Sidious was faced with the same sort of situation that Obi-Wan was - that is to say - he was bested by an attack that he didn't expect and likely couldn't have defended himself against even if he did.
First off, prove that I use bullshit logic. Second, you’re wrong again Escape. Sidious and Mace were fighting their hardest against one another. Nobody was holding back. Finally, Mace prevails in lightsaber combat because he drove a Kick in. A Kick is an offensive attack which Sidious should have been able to defend, but couldn’t due to Mace’s speed which he directed the attack and the Kick’s aim.
In the case of Kenobi, he never noticed Dooku stop cutting the shit. The whole duel was a lightsaber fight, and so when he goes back to join Anakin, he again goes on the offensive. This indicates that he still thinks Dooku is toying around foolishly and that Obi-Wan was again trying to dupe Dooku even more since Obi-Wan goes on the offense, even though he sucks at that. Thus Kenobi was suddenly bombarded upon this spasm of power increase that Dooku just did. He was unable to do jackshit, and ergo he gets owned.
In the case of Mace vs. Palpatine, nobody was holding back. Mace didn’t suddenly cut shit and fvck Sidious up. That’s why it was a legitimate duel. For Obi-Wan, it’s ridiculous to say that he loses in four seconds. I mean, seriously, what?!
Again, by the very same logic, Sidious lost because he didn't expect to get a kick from Mace; Yoda nearly died because he didn't expect a blast of Force lightning; Sidious was nearly bested because he didn't expect a Force push from Yoda; Mace lost because he didn't expect the "weak" Palpatine to get back up and Bar-b-que his ass; Anakin got his shit amputated because he didn't expect Obi-Wan to take a swing and dismember him; Grievous wasn't expecting a Force push; Obi-Wan wasn't expecting to get Force pushed into a melting pit.
For Sidious, see above.
And again, it’s the same reasoning for Yoda vs. Sidious. Both were fighting as hard as hell and it was inconclusive. Obi-Wan going on offensive mainly faced an arrogant Dooku who wasn’t even trying (excluding when he Pushed Kenobi away due to being desperate). That’s why he charges in and gets owned.
Obi-Wan got flung like a ragdoll twice in that movie. Dooku Force pushed him out of the fight initially, and did it again, except the second time was with more finality.
Explanation time brother. During both times of the duel when Obi-Wan was thrown away, it was when Dooku was desperate. Let us examine the first time Kenobi got Pushed.
Watching the scene once again, you see Dooku driving his hand forward in a direct Force Push aimed right at Obi-Wan. Kenobi was thrown fifteen feet back. However, this hardly affected Obi-Wan as he wasn’t injured at all.
Now let us see the second case. We see Dooku using a sidearm swipe, which sends Kenobi flying twenty feet away right into the platform, knocking him out cold. But this seems peculiar, does it not? Think about it: Dooku using a side attack does more damage than a direct slam into Obi-Wan. This makes no sense. When Kenobi had his defenses up, he was able to survive a direct Push aimed at right him by a Dooku in desperation and not even be injured. Yet, when he surprised and his defenses laid bare open, he was fvcked by a sidearm Push (which is weaker than a direct blow).
What does this mean? It proves my point above Obi-Wan being in an unfair position, and that’s the reason he got owned. In addition, it proves Obi-Wan’s strength against Force attacks. When Dooku in desperation puts energy into a Push right at Kenobi, Obi-Wan’s defenses allows him to get flown only fifteen feet away onto the ground. Yet, it doesn’t affect him. He is easily able to get up and destroy the Super Battle Droids. This proves that Kenobi cannot get easily owned as you claim and it proves every argument saying “Dooku pwns Kenobi via Push in 4 seconds!!!111” wrong.
Obi-Wan's defense would allow him to be a problem to Count Dooku in a saber lock, and in that, he could last a while. Offensively? Hell no. Dooku's a far better offensive duelist. And, last, but not least, in a Force fight? No. Obi-Wan is much weaker than Count Dooku in the Force and does not possess his versatility in power or mastery of it.
Lightsaber Duel: Lasts for a while, but loses.
Force Fight: Lasts for a little bit, but loses.
Overall: Lasts an okay time. Around 40 seconds to 100 seconds is the net time of survival for Kenobi.
Quit being such a fanboy of Obi-Wan that you have your head up your ass
Ad Hominem at its finest. Please get your facts straight. I used to think the same way as you did, believing that Dooku is >>> Obi-Wan Kenobi. But I realized how stupid that is. It took Sidious 7 seconds to kill Agen Kolar, so how Dooku kill Kenobi in 13 seconds huh??
Part 2:
ROTS Obi-Wan Kenobi’s Feats:
Presented by Prodigal Knight,
Lightsaber Combat:
Obi-Wan Kenobi was a master of the highly defensive form of Soresu. Many Jedi of the time, including notables such as Mace Windu, have declared Kenobi to be one of the finest (if not the best) exemplars of Soresu. Kenobi’s mastery in this form has made him able to do many feats:
-By Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan Kenobi is stronger than Asajj Ventress. Ventress was one of the strongest Jedi during the whole Clone Wars. She has been able to kill many Jedi and even defeated Jedi Master Kit Fisto in combat.
-During the Clone Wars, Obi-Wan was able to defeat the bounty hunter Durge in single combat. Durge was one of the most feared Confederacy enemies. He was a well-known Jedi killer, but Kenobi outclassed him.
-Defeated General Grievous in Revenge of the Sith. Despite sustaining an injury, the droid general was still as deadly as he was during the Clone Wars. Grievous has slaughtered dozens and dozens of Jedi. However, within 34 seconds of engaging a duel with Obi-Wan, he was already defeated.
-One of the greatest Jedi Generals of all time, General Kenobi led many sieges and battles during the Clone Wars. The Separatist Droid Army was a deadly opponent against the Republic, but wherever Obi-Wan went, victory was certain. With his amazing Soresu, Kenobi not only survived the wars, but his endurance and strength increased tenfold by the time Revenge of the Sith occurred.
Force:
Obi-Wan Kenobi is one the most powerful Force users during the Clone Wars. Only few Jedi were greater than he was in the use of the magical energy that Jedi could harness. Kenobi used the Force exquisitely, and some of his moves were:
1. Force Push
2. Force Pull
3. Master Speed
4. Jedi Mink Trick
5. etc.
Notable uses of the Force by Obi-Wan were as such:
-Was able to send General Grievous literally “flying”. When watching the scene, a rough estimate is that GG was sent 100 feet across and 50 feet high. Clearly an impressive task against a droid general capable of dodging Force attacks.
-Was able to crumble a retainer that held a ton of metal. Obi-Wan disintegrated the retainer and then directed the ton onto the Magnaguards coming at him.
-Was able to get a stalemate in the use of the Force against Anakin Skywalker, who was one of the strongest Knights during the Clone Wars. Anakin, with his Force Rage, was able to collapse an entire room. Kenobi equaled him.
-See the following:
The source for this comic depiction is Clone Wars 7: When They Were Brothers. Obi-Wan is able to move an entire space fighter towards him to crush several droids patrolling the spacecraft. Clearly this is quite impressive.
The feat is nevertheless impressive as he able to crush the restraint and then have the metal fall upon the MagnaGuards. To make sure though, I shall verify this.
Go. Right. Ahead.
The feat is impressive? No. Sidious playing tennis with Senate pods and Yoda catching lightning with his bare hands is impressive. The metal was suspended by the restraint. Obi-Wan did not do anything other than remove the restraint. It was gravity that performed this so-called impressive feat.
This delusion that you have is an example of you having your head up your ass when it comes to Obi-Wan vs. Dooku.
Hardly, there is a clear difference between tossing Grievous and tossing a Super Battle Droid. Grievous is perfectly capable of dodging Force attacks. Just because he was wounded doesn't mean he incapable of dodging. The strength which Obi-Wan threw him away like a ragdoll is the impressive part.
CW Grievous =/= RotS Grievous. Understand that. Anyways, lol, "he was caught off guard!". Sound familiar? 🙂
Indeed, that is true to an extent. However, listen up:My point is that had Dooku actually tried from the beginning onwards, the duel would have played out differently. Obi-Wan Kenobi would have not gotten owned in four seconds. Next, Kenobi would have a defense and he would lasted for maybe thirty or forty seconds, the correct time of survival.
Lol. I didn't realize that you were George Lucas, now. Please. It's not your place to tell me how the fight would have gone, when you've got nothing to base it on.
When Anakin and Obi-Wan go on the offensive against Dooku, they pretty much figure out that the Count is not trying by his lazy blocks and such. I’m just saying that Obi-Wan wasn’t aware of Dooku cutting the shit and actually 100% trying. This is why he just goes on the offensive again with that saber hit, because he’s expecting another prolonged lightsaber fight. This backfires and he gets thrown away.
[sarcasm] Of course, George Lucas. [/sarcasm]
This is why I lose my patience with you on this issue. You don't know what Obi-Wan was thinking. Or Dooku. So quit trying to say "oh, well, Obi-Wan knew that Dooku wasn't trying - so he went on the offensive...", 'cause you don't know. Period.
He gets chucked by Dooku twice. Why? Because Dooku is a better Force user.
This is a sign of inferiority but nevertheless; catching somebody off guard doesn't mean automatically better. For example, remember when Padawan Kenobi cuts Maul up. Maul was caught off guard by Obi-Wan's Jump behind him. He has no defense to Kenobi's strike and thus gets owned. However, you cannot say Obi-Wan >> Maul because of that.
Yeah. Except that Maul dominated Obi-Wan before that little incident. Or did you conveniantly forget why Obi-Wan was in the pit in the first place?
They fought on even ground; Obi-Wan lost. Maul held off Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon at the same time for an extremely long amount of time. If that's not a sign of superiority, I don't know what is, especially when he killed Qui-Gon and the only reason Obi-Wan did anything noteworthy was because of his brief touch with his inner dark side.
Wow, please stop the hedging. Seriously, stop trying to make me look bad, because fyi: it's embarrassing you. Did I ever say the Duel in the Invisible Hand wasn't a lightsaber fight? Please tell me if you do.
Pardon? This was posted by you:
And please, Mace and Sidious were fighting a lightsaber duel.
Put two-and-two together. You said this in response to my remarks about Obi-Wan and Dooku, implying that Mace didn't catch Sidious off guard because they were fighting in a lightsaber duel.
Which is pretty stupid on your part, considering how Obi-Wan was, too. 😉
First off, prove that I use bullshit logic. Second, you’re wrong again Escape. Sidious and Mace were fighting their hardest against one another. Nobody was holding back. Finally, Mace prevails in lightsaber combat because he drove a Kick in. A Kick is an offensive attack which Sidious should have been able to defend, but couldn’t due to Mace’s speed which he directed the attack and the Kick’s aim.
Oh, yeah, lmao. Sidious should have been able to defend a kick against an opponent who is much more physically capable than him? And, no, you are wrong, Prodigal. Didn't you just get done saying that Dooku's Force attacks were out of desperation? He was going all out. And, just to be sure, the movies don't support the whole "faking it" conclusion. None of them were screwing around at that point. The only one being anything close to restrained was Anakin, due to Obi-Wan's presence - and Count Dooku's arrogance prevented him from using his superior Force powers until it was too late, or extremely desperate.
The lightsaber portion of the fight seemed to be both fast paced and extremely epic. Neither side was faking. The script and movies don't support that conclusion.
In the case of Kenobi, he never noticed Dooku stop cutting the shit. The whole duel was a lightsaber fight, and so when he goes back to join Anakin, he again goes on the offensive. This indicates that he still thinks Dooku is toying around foolishly and that Obi-Wan was again trying to dupe Dooku even more since Obi-Wan goes on the offense, even though he sucks at that. Thus Kenobi was suddenly bombarded upon this spasm of power increase that Dooku just did. He was unable to do jackshit, and ergo he gets owned.
Like I said, psuedo-George, don't tell me that "Obi-Wan wasn't expecting shit!!!11", because you don't know. 😉
And, furthermore, even if he was - then it's just like Dooku's arrogance. An extreme psychological disadvantage. If Obi-Wan tried to toy with Dooku, and couldn't tell when Dooku stopped "cutting the shit" as you so eloquently put it, then what's to say that he would in a regular duel, and that would somehow miraculously prevent him from getting owned again?
Answer: It wouldn't.
In the case of Mace vs. Palpatine, nobody was holding back. Mace didn’t suddenly cut shit and fvck Sidious up. That’s why it was a legitimate duel. For Obi-Wan, it’s ridiculous to say that he loses in four seconds. I mean, seriously, what?!
Lmao.
a.) Where were Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Dooku "holding back"? As far as the lightsaber fight is concerned, they seemed quite clearly to be going full out on one another. Anakin was restrained by Obi-Wan, and Dooku may have been restrained by his own ego. What's Obi-Wan's excuse?
b.) Bullshit as far as Mace vs. Sidious. You say that Sidious wasn't caught off guard and he could have stopped the kick? Then, he would have done so - regardless if Mace was stronger.
Hypothetically speaking, if Sidious wasn't caught off guard, he would have put up a defense. If Mace were stronger regardless, and the kick would have ended the fight, it would've broken through his defenses or he would have landed it anyway, regardless if Sidious tried to avoid it.
Bottom line: By your logic, Sidious was caught off guard no more than Obi-Wan, and no less. Still doesn't change the fact. Dooku overpowered him in that situation (simultaneously combating Anakin) while Sidious was overpowered by Mace in their duel.
And again, it’s the same reasoning for Yoda vs. Sidious. Both were fighting as hard as hell and it was inconclusive. Obi-Wan going on offensive mainly faced an arrogant Dooku who wasn’t even trying (excluding when he Pushed Kenobi away due to being desperate). That’s why he charges in and gets owned.
Yoda and Sidious did go full out. Again, Yoda got owned by Force lightning in the beginning, and Sidious then got owned by a Force push. Both reasons were simple: both were caught off guard and both went in overconfident. Then, of course, you have the fact that they both landed blows on one another during their duel.
Where did Obi-Wan best Dooku, or come close? Answer: he didn't, except in a prolonged lightsaber duel - but that was with Anakin, as well.
Explanation time brother. During both times of the duel when Obi-Wan was thrown away, it was when Dooku was desperate. Let us examine the first time Kenobi got Pushed.
Which means what? I have already said that Dooku can't handle them both in a prolonged saber fight.
Watching the scene once again, you see Dooku driving his hand forward in a direct Force Push aimed right at Obi-Wan. Kenobi was thrown fifteen feet back. However, this hardly affected Obi-Wan as he wasn’t injured at all.
Who said it was to injure him?
When have Force pushes been known to cause debilitating injuries in the movies? The only case that came close was with Grievous, but he was slammed, very hard, into a wall, and then fell from a great height. Even then, all it did was put distance between them (which was what Obi-Wan did) - but it didn't injure him. At best, it stunned him.
The same went for Sidious.
Likely, Dooku just wanted to separate them - hence the follow up attack from the Battle Droids.
(con't)
Now let us see the second case. We see Dooku using a sidearm swipe, which sends Kenobi flying twenty feet away right into the platform, knocking him out cold. But this seems peculiar, does it not? Think about it: Dooku using a side attack does more damage than a direct slam into Obi-Wan. This makes no sense. When Kenobi had his defenses up, he was able to survive a direct Push aimed at right him by a Dooku in desperation and not even be injured. Yet, when he surprised and his defenses laid bare open, he was fvcked by a sidearm Push (which is weaker than a direct blow).
Please. You're judging the effort and damage of the attack merely from the gestures that follow? Obi-Wan was choked by Dooku - it wasn't merely a Force push. Dooku kept him suspended in mid air long enough to back kick Anakin into the wall - and then he used the "sidearm swipe" to fling Obi-Wan into the wall.
a.) The choking factor must have helped.
b.) The distance Obi-Wan was thrown the second time was much greater than the first.
c.) Obi-Wan hit a metal wall.
d.) Obi-Wan bounced off the wall and fell.
e.) Obi-Wan was then buried under a balcony.
What does this mean? It proves my point above Obi-Wan being in an unfair position, and that’s the reason he got owned. In addition, it proves Obi-Wan’s strength against Force attacks. When Dooku in desperation puts energy into a Push right at Kenobi, Obi-Wan’s defenses allows him to get flown only fifteen feet away onto the ground. Yet, it doesn’t affect him. He is easily able to get up and destroy the Super Battle Droids. This proves that Kenobi cannot get easily owned as you claim and it proves every argument saying “Dooku pwns Kenobi via Push in 4 seconds!!!111” wrong.
Like I told you. Sidious and Grievous recovered extremely quickly from their Force pushes quite easily as well. Maul's Force push to Obi-Wan in TPM didn't injure him insofar as put distance between them - coupled with the near tumble into the melting pit. The push itself did jack. Then, of course, Anakin and Obi-Wan both recovered from their Force pushes quite easily, despite being slammed into consoles.
Force push isn't Force lightning. It's not damaging in itself.
Lightsaber Duel: Lasts for a while, but loses.
Obi-Wan's defense makes him a problem. But, lol, he's got no chance of winning due to a poor offense.
Force Fight: Lasts for a little bit, but loses.
No.
Overall: Lasts an okay time. Around 40 seconds to 100 seconds is the net time of survival for Kenobi.
Take the Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Dooku fight (which ends when Obi-Wan is knocked unconscious, divide it by two, and that's about it.
Ad Hominem at its finest. Please get your facts straight. I used to think the same way as you did, believing that Dooku is >>> Obi-Wan Kenobi. But I realized how stupid that is. It took Sidious 7 seconds to kill Agen Kolar, so how Dooku kill Kenobi in 13 seconds huh??
Please. Seven seconds? Are you sure about that, because I'm not. In any case, lmao, it took one second to kill Agen. The rest was Sidious flipping over the desk, growling, then lunging forward and stabbing him.
Originally posted by Advent
Pwnt.And the other post, "Part 2" is feat wars which, in regards to Gideon's post, is irrelevant. Feat Wars mean precisely dick when not put into context. What did that post have to do with anything anyways (aside from the fact that we already know, that he's an able fighter)?
You do still love me. 😄