Starfire Vs Namor

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
1. Because it slit his throat doesn't mean she could've killed him. He took a similar throat slit during Loeb's run on S/B and WON the fight. The neck slit simply slowed him down long enough for her to break the mind control. If anything, Superman could've killed her when she was lying on the ground for over a page if his greif wasn't clouding his judgement and he had just went for the kill instead of standing there and making a speech. Besides which, how does her tiara cutting Superman, who's been cut by lots of magic objects, prove she's stronger?

2. DC's top tiers are not stronger than Marvel's. You can find feats between mountain smashing and planet busting for both, but on average they're even. Namor would do as well against DC's top tiers as he does against Marvel's, IMO.

wallbash

don't you get it Loeb is a Superman and batman fanboy

He had Batman take hits from Darkseid without dieing

LHe Had Superman break Wonder Woman's braclets which have withstood blasts from entire pantheons of Gods .
Loeb is a horrible writer to use his books for feats when it comes to Superman and Batman

and anyways that fight took place in anotherr reality so we don't know how powerful that Wonder Woman is compared to the DCU Wonder Woman.

Here, Namor matches Hercules until he becomes dehydrated. Note, Namor mentions he's been out of water too long, which implies that he lost his strength that quickly only because of how long he'd been out of water prior to the Herc fight:

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3564/namorfeat1173gx.gif

Once they're underwater, Namor starts owning Herc, but then returns them to the surface via the Cosmic Cube out of honor. Not the spectator says that now that they're back on land, neither can defeat the other:

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/363/namorfeat1169jx.gif

Namor matches Herc on land again, although he takes a breif dip in the water during the fight. It's unclear how long he'd been on land beforehand, but he does mention his strength was "restored" by the water. Here it is:

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/4082/namor1nj8.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6073/namor2pk3.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6093/namor3so9.jpg

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1962/namor4bf5.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1549/namor5mm5.jpg

Namor vs. The Hulk on land. The fight lasts almost the entire issue, most of which was off-panel. Also note that Namor was actually holding back at first:

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2000/hulknamorqz9.jpg

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5185/hulknamor1kp9.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/4976/hulknamor2tb9.jpg

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/7712/hulknamor3yw2.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/1403/hulknamor4bq3.jpg

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2215/hulknamor5ix3.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9139/hulknamor6jt1.jpg

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/148/hulknamor7wg3.jpg

Originally posted by Devil Lance
wallbash

don't you get it Loeb is a Superman and batman fanboy

He had Batman take hits from Darkseid without dieing

LHe Had Superman break Wonder Woman's braclets which have withstood blasts from entire pantheons of Gods .
Loeb is a horrible writer to use his books for feats when it comes to Superman and Batman

and anyways that fight took place in anotherr reality so we don't know how powerful that Wonder Woman is compared to the DCU Wonder Woman.

1. WW's bracelets have easily withstood Ares' blasts, yet it was stated that both Kronos and Ares have broken the Aegis before. With Kronos, it was a physical blow, and presumably the same held true for Ares. It seems to me that her bracelets are just much better against energy than blunt force. This is backed up by the fact that she stated they couldn't protect her forever from Kal's blows under Jiminez as well, and likewise Loeb wrote her easily blocking HV and Omega Beams with them.

2. Yeah, Loeb's a fanboy, but so is Rucka.

3. It wasn't really an alternate reality; it was an altered reality. It was the mainstream universe, but was tampered with for a time. IMO, that doesn't really invalidate the feat any moreso than it invalidates what happened in IC while Alex Luthor was mucking with the universes. Regardless, I wasn't actually referencing that. I was just making note of Superman's ability to handle a neck slit and still win a fight.

4. Logically, a neck slit shouldn't stop Superman, given how his physiology works. He was able to survive for a brief time after his heart had been ripped out by holding onto the sun. Plus he has an insane healing factor under many writers. I don't think it's fanboyish to have Superman fight through a neck slit and still win.

5. Batman had a Mother Box protecting him and DS was pulling his punches so as not to kill him. Batman said this himself.

Namor vs. a mind-controlled Hulk on land, also from DarkCrawler's respect thread:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9893/namorvsdarkhulk12uk.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/1638/namorvsdarkhulk26ft.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8523/namorvsdarkhulk33eb.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/5644/namorvsdarkhulk40yd.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8383/namorvsdarkhulk50ic.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5650/namorvsdarkhulk60vv.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/2950/namorvsdarkhulk72we.gif
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1476/namorvsdarkhulk83vd.gif
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6966/namorvsdarkhulk98ae.gif

IMO, Namor's slugfests with The Hulk, Hercules, and Thor alone pretty much establish that his strength is on par with WW's. His showings against Surfer, Strange, Iron Man, Apocalypse, The Thing, Mar-Vell, Super-Skrull, etc. just cement it further.

Originally posted by Jimmy-Chan
... Um, that's putting words in my mouth. I said people who see WW as significantly stronger than Namor likely fit into [B]one of these four categories. Not all four of them. And it's also entirely possible than DarkCrawler's knowledge of Namor's lower showings, couple with his ignorance of WW's own low showings is the reason why. Or it could just be that he's influenced by board hype. He'd have to clarify his reasoning himself.

As for me personally, I'm very familiar with both WW and Namor's high and low strength showings, and I see their strength as essentially equal. Sometimes I sway to one or the other, but it's extremely close. Both of them are strong enough to give top tiers great fights consistently, but look noticably weaker on average. [/B]

Just repeating that WW is stronger (and I won't get into speed since I'm not really into the "non-CIS/PIS realism" of this board) isnt really a valid argument. Either you think the top tiers she faced are much stronger than the ones Namor faced, or you beleive her performances were much better in terms of strength. I think both of those beleifs are obviously untrue (especially the latter if you compare the scans posted), but I'd like to see the arguments for each.