What's worse: Pedophiles or Murderers?

Originally posted by ThePittman
It cost more to put a convicted killer to death then to keep them alive in confinement plus you also have the chance of killing an innocent man, there are countless cases of people that have been wrongly convicted of crimes and rarely is 100%. I have no fear of someone that is in prison for life as much as I do for the random thug on the street that wants my money or shoes.

It only costs so much becuase of the appeal process. And your right we also need to put more funding into the legal aid depatments to get these people better representation in court.

And I also feel for Captial offences the burden of proof should be stricter.

Originally posted by Starhawk
1) Why should tax dollars that can be spent on health care and other areas for law abiding people be spent on these monsters?

2) Why should we have to live in fear of them?

1) Why should we spend our tax dollars for an execution?

2) Prisoners don't get health care

3) Death Penalty will not alleviate your fear of them, they will always exist...

Originally posted by Starhawk
And agian more insults, but at least you addressed ONE point.

2nd degree crimes are crimes where you don't plan the crime ahead. an example would be a man walking in on his wife with another man and killing them both. This is a cirme fueled by such intesne emotion that nothing could deter him from doing it. But we execute him to prevent such an occurance from happening again.

1st degree crimes are ones that are planned out in advance and your right allot of times they don't fear the punishment, but if we inact capital punishment AND start giving our local police the funding and manpower they need to do the job then criminals would be less likely to think they will get away with a crime and they would definatly fear the penalties.

In my legal career I will do everything I possibly can to see the Death Penalty re-instated in Canada and I have a load of classmates who feel the same way and are ready to help.

again, more filler.
yet with all that you still have not sited any evidence that capital punishment deters criminals. a simple comparing of states with and without capital punishment, showing a pattern that those without have more occurances of crime per population of citizens would suffice.

all you have done is parrot opinion. in short, to paraphrase:

"i believe that capital punishment is the solution to reducing occurances of child rape"
only you have repeated this over and over with lots of filler and "im a law student" and "waaa you're insulting me"

an opinion based on nothing more than what you feel is fine in a forum of debate when stated once. when you monopolise the discussion by parroting that opinion you insult us all and bring a rational debate(an exchange of opinions based on deductive reasoning, and based on factual evidence) to a screeching halt. this should be left to politicians and religious fanatics, and not a public forum of debate on crime and justice.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
1) Why should we spend our tax dollars for an execution?

2) Prisoners don't get health care

3) Death Penalty will not alleviate your fear of them, they will always exist...

I don't know where your second point came from and I really don't care if they do or not.

As for points 1 &3 the awnser is the same, if we can;t stop them from murder or assulating a child the first time, we can make sure it's the only time they get the chance.

Starhawk, I am not here to insult you even though I did before...

PVS is an old lonely man, so you have to excuse his anger. Regardless, he is pretty much correct.

Starhawk, Capital Punishment only works on ISOLATED incidences. Obviously, if you kill a child rapist or murderer, he or she cannot harm another person. Yes.

But his or her execution, does NOT prevent another child rapist or murderer from committing the same crime.

You may argue, that Death Penalty is a deterrent for future crimes, but such has not been proven. So your argument that it is is factually wrong.

A better idea would be to prevent the crime from happening in the first place. Punishment always occurs after the crime has been committed. Punishment is not a preventative or deterrent.

WE should study why people become this way. What causes a person to become attracted to children, what causes a person to have the tendency to rape, and what causes a person to have no hesitation before committing a murder.

But to display the same action on someone, punishing that person for something WE are ABOUT to do to them, is 100% hypocritical, and lowers us a human beings.

It is obvious that you live in Fear and Anger of these people. You need to clear your mind, stop thinking about pure vengeance, and think how can we truly prevent these horrible things from happening the most effective way possible?

Death Penalty is not the solution....

Originally posted by Starhawk
I don't know where your second point came from and I really don't care if they do or not.

HELLO dumbass, you just said "why should we spend our tax dollars paying for thier health care"

You are so clouded and blinded by your own anger, you cannot even see what you yourself wrote.

Originally posted by Starhawk
I don't know where your second point came from and I really don't care if they do or not.

As for points 1 &3 the awnser is the same, if we can;t stop them from murder or assulating a child the first time, we can make sure it's the only time they get the chance.

Because we have tried other means of deterance (therapy and medication) and nothing has worked. And in some cases those methods can even bring about the very behavior we seek to prevent.

You seem to think, incorrectly that I enjoy the idea of someone, ANYONE dying. That isn't the case, it's just the harsh solution we need for a harsh world that growing harsher every day.

And yes I agree society can do allot to create the monsters, but that doesn't change the fact that it's nessecary to protect the ones that don't become monsters.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
HELLO dumbass, you just said "why should we spend our tax dollars paying for thier health care"

You are so clouded and blinded by your own anger, you cannot even see what you yourself wrote.

Wow you went back to the insults pretty quick,

if you feel insulted then report the insulter. dont use it as a crutch to avoid all points made against your apparent method of debate (repeat baseless opinion over and over)

Originally posted by PVS
if you feel insulted then report the insulter. dont use it as a crutch to avoid all points made against your apparent method of debate (repeat baseless opinion over and over)

You ignore my points, I address other peoples.

i know it can be disillusioning, responding to so many people at once, so i will repost my response to your avoidance of my call for evidence to your one and only point:

Originally posted by PVS
again, more filler.
yet with all that you still have not sited any evidence that capital punishment deters criminals. a simple comparing of states with and without capital punishment, showing a pattern that those without have more occurances of crime per population of citizens would suffice.

all you have done is parrot opinion. in short, to paraphrase:

"i believe that capital punishment is the solution to reducing occurances of child rape"
only you have repeated this over and over with lots of filler and "im a law student" and "waaa you're insulting me"

an opinion based on nothing more than what you feel is fine in a forum of debate when stated once. when you monopolise the discussion by parroting that opinion you insult us all and bring a rational debate(an exchange of opinions based on deductive reasoning, and based on factual evidence) to a screeching halt. this should be left to politicians and religious fanatics, and not a public forum of debate on crime and justice.

i know you wont post any evidence or even address this, but may rather just quote me and respond with irrelevance, but i just want to illustrate to everyone else just what you're doing.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Because we have tried other means of deterance (therapy and medication) and nothing has worked. And in some cases those methods can even bring about the very behavior we seek to prevent.

You seem to think, incorrectly that I enjoy the idea of someone, ANYONE dying. That isn't the case, it's just the harsh solution we need for a harsh world that growing harsher every day.

And yes I agree society can do allot to create the monsters, but that doesn't change the fact that it's nessecary to protect the ones that don't become monsters.

1) Death Penalty has not proven to be an effective deterrant

2) There are other, more effective ways to protect the innocent. Death Penalty cannot prevent someone from being murdered in the first place...does that hit home at all ?

Because we have tried other means of deterance (therapy and medication) and nothing has worked. And in some cases those methods can even bring about the very behavior we seek to prevent.

You seem to think, incorrectly that I enjoy the idea of someone, ANYONE dying. That isn't the case, it's just the harsh solution we need for a harsh world that growing harsher every day.

If we can't stop them from murder or assulating a child the first time, we can make sure it's the only time they get the chance.

Obviously I wont convince you and I garuntee you won't convince me. So I will do what I can threw the legal system and if nessecary running for office to make sure Captial Punishment is restored in Canada.

And yes I agree society can do allot to create the monsters, but that doesn't change the fact that it's nessecary to protect the ones that don't become monsters.

wow, so now you're just copy and pasting old baseless opinions? not even taking the time to type out the repeating-ad-nauseum of the same opinion?

Why bother you just spout insults and don;t take the time to address them.

Originally posted by Starhawk
Why bother you just spout insults and don;t take the time to address them.

quote a single time i called you any names or made derogatory statements against you. (unless you consider "champ" to be an insult...in which case my heart bleeds)

this copout is getting really old

Originally posted by Starhawk
Because we have tried other means of deterance (therapy and medication) and nothing has worked. And in some cases those methods can even bring about the very behavior we seek to prevent.

You seem to think, incorrectly that I enjoy the idea of someone, ANYONE dying. That isn't the case, it's just the harsh solution we need for a harsh world that growing harsher every day.

If we can't stop them from murder or assulating a child the first time, [B]we can make sure it's the only time they get the chance.

Obviously I wont convince you and I garuntee you won't convince me. So I will do what I can threw the legal system and if nessecary running for office to make sure Captial Punishment is restored in Canada.

And yes I agree society can do allot to create the monsters, but that doesn't change the fact that it's nessecary to protect the ones that don't become monsters. [/B]

If we can't stop them from murder or assulating a child the first time, we can make sure it's the only time they get the chance.

PVS may be an angry, lonely man. I don't know. I'm not lonely, but I can get angry over hot-button issues, Starhawk; I hope there are no hard feelings. Now...

Have you ever heard of a man named Ray Krone? A convicted murderer. He spent ten years in prison, and if I understand your position, you'd say that we should have executed him, so that we don't have to live in fear of him, and because we shouldn't have to absorb the cost of keeping people like him alive. After ten years, conclusive evidence surfaced that hhe was innocent; do you see why, ultimately, it was a good thing that we spent money on keeeping him around, and forced people to "live in fear of him" instead of executing him?

Or perhaps you've heard of Jennifer Thompson, a more famous case? There was no question that Ronald Cotton raped her; she stared at his face while he did it, and positively identified him. No reason to spend money keeping someone like that around. No reason that people should have to live in fear of him. But after he'd served a year of his sentence, a new inmate, Bobby Poole, admitted that he had actually commited the crime. Oops. Just as well they wasted that money, don't you think?

Murder and rape ... do you want me to try to find a case of a convicted child-mollestor who turned out to be innocent? I'd give odds that I could. In fact, I know I can; you're not American, so you probably missed out on the "Satanic ritual" nonsense that struck the USA a while ago, but a lot of innocent lives were torn appart over that. A lot of innocent lives would have ended, if you'd had your way.

Keeping these people in jail or an institution for the rest of their lives is also a "harsh solution." If we seem to think that you enjoy the idea of these people dying, you seem to think that we want to slap them on the wrist and let them go commit more crimes. Nobody is suggesting that.

Do you think someone locked up in a maximum security prison will get another chance to victimize children?