Marvel Universe: THE END Discussion Thread

Originally posted by leonidas
doh

_a

Originally posted by leonidas
or WANTS to replace it. 🙂

meh, same difference.

Originally posted by leonidas
i disagree here, only because the universe never DID die. it condensed, became dormant, whatever word you choose, and was awaiting rebirth.

I have to disagree back.

The Universe DID die, it collapsed into nothingness.

"It Implodes upon itself,
till what was once Infinite Space could be bounded by a Nutshell"

The "Nutshell" is the Earth that remained.

"The Sentient Earth waits for a New Entity to come and Waken the Cosmos around it,

It (Earth) awaits it's own inevitable Rebirth"

The Writer calling it a "Cosmos" though it's nothingness makes sense ... look:

"Into Another Universe, existing beside the one we have known"

See ... they're calling a Void ,,, Another Universe.

In any case the Watcher clarifies:

"Thus Ends one Continuum of Time & Space"

Notice one side is a Void with just the Earth, while the other is ... well look.

Originally posted by leonidas
evolutionary said it was sleeping, or implied that was the case.

"Implied?"

H.E. didn't say a word:

Originally posted by leonidas
either way, all those terms imply the departed universe was still 'existing'. but, with nothing to 'drive' the abandoned universe, to sustain it, it couldn't sustain itself.

We kinda agree here.

But just to be sure, my take is,

the M-body which contains the Sentience, which is the Life-Force of the Universe,

left and so the Universe it sustained collapsed.

Originally posted by leonidas
the mbody was depicting the departure of the sentience of the universe -- not the universe itslef.

But the Sentience of the Universe is the Life-Force of the Universe

(what makes the Universe possible)

So in a way, it is the Universe, just not literally.

Originally posted by leonidas
which is why i say their IS a distinction between essence and mbody. with that in mind, perhaps killing the essence would NOT have killed the concept, but it WOULD have deprived it of all meaning and made it essentially non-existent. it's a strange case. 😬

Strange indeed. sleepy

Originally posted by leonidas
er, it IS part of the universe, right . . .

glare

Originally posted by leonidas
but anyway, i still am not sure why you showed the scan. i don't have a problem, nor do i refute anything it is showing . . .

I was showing Eternity becoming an M-body by condensing the actual Universe.

I think it's a valid post for my case.

Originally posted by leonidas
no wonder you keep confusing me and accusing me of twisting your words! damn, bro, i can't keep up! this is what you said to illadelph:

these cats have been thinking I'm saying,

Eternity's M-body is an actual Universe as it's wandering around inside it's own Universe, that's incorrrect.

Ok.

But leon, that has nothing to do with the post you're replying to friend.

I said:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually I never said Eternity is not the whole Universe,

I said Eternity like all Abstract Entitys, is the Life-Force of their respective Concept.

What does that have to do with what I told Ills?

My post doesn't say Eternity is a Universe walking inside a Universe.

But it also doesn't reject the notion that Eternity is the Universe.

Originally posted by leonidas
so now you're saying it's only a universe when we see it from the outside?? that's exactly what I'VE been saying.

But I didn't say that, you're saying that, or you think I am, but I'm not.

Originally posted by leonidas
but if it manifests WITHIN itself it is NOT a full universe?? that means the representation of eternity varies. sometimes it IS the hwole universe, other times it is not. how is that NOT what i've been saying??

You may be saying that, but I'm not.

Eternity is the Totality of the Sentience and Life-Force ... that's it.

As the Sentience and Life-Force what happens to Eternity,

happens to the Universe, so he is the Universe, just not literally.

Originally posted by leonidas
seriously, i DO NOT MEAN TO TWIST YOUR WORDS!! BUT THEY KEEP SEEMING TO ME TO CONTRADICT THEMSELVES.

Not at all.

And an an entire sentence capped?

Shame on you 😮

Originally posted by leonidas
seriously, if any onlooker sees where i'm going wrong, jump in, cuz i'm sure mm is getting as frustrated with me as i am with trying to figure out just what he's saying!!

One already did:

Originally posted by Galan007
You're saying that if an M-Body of said character(s) is killed, then it's life-force and concept, (what it represented), are still left "alive"...... Kind of like a ghost or Spirit...

But if a being were to erase not only the M-Body, but also the concept in which that M-Body represented, then whatever it was/represented, becomes nonexistent....

Basically kill the body, kill the ghost/spirit, and nothing will remain of what the body once was, and what it represented.

Originally posted by Galan007
Actually it makes perfect sense to me....

I just wanted to make sure the idea I had in my head, was what you were really explaining. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
just because it is the life force it can pull out galaxies? it can pull out galaxies because as an mbody it IS part of eternity, and hence part of the universe. i don't see why you need to say it is the life force to do so. eternity putting a small amount of his power into an mbody could easily manifest planets and galaxies. power is what is needed, not life force . . .

The Life-Force is the Power.

The End series, was the absorption of 1 and only 1 universe.

all righty . . . you did some clarifying for me. muchos gracias. 🙂

but, just to be sure, could you please answer a couple questions/comment on a couple of points so i can say i really know where you stand:

1. you say a concept has sentience/life force/essence. we agree on that.

2. when an mbody is manifested by an abstract, it is MY contention that they do so to interact with physical beings, so that physical beings can perceive them. do you agree with this reasoning?

3. when an mbody IS manifested, it is my contention that the abstract takes a variable portion of its essence and places it into the mbody. (that's why an eternity mbody could only muster power enough to blow up a planet, for example) an mbody can be destroyed and that destruction can have no impact at all on the abstract concept itself. in some cases though, where the mbody clearly DOES represent the entirety of a concept (eternity's mbody viewed from outside the universe, for example) then the destruction of THAT mbody WOULD mean the destruction of the abstract as a whole.

now, i had thought you claimed the mbody was the entirety of an abstract, but that doesn't seem to be the case, because you say that if you "Kill the M-body = Kill the Sentience (even if it's momentary) but Not the Life-Force" now, that is very close to my definition. what i don't get is why you feel the sentience needs to reside completely within the mbody, and why the distinction between 'sentience' and 'life force'? what exactly IS the difference between sentience and life force and where have you seen this distinction made apparent?

you also draw a line between erasing and killing. how do you see the 2 instances being different? beyonder erased death, but where did you see a concept 'killed'? personally, i don't see the difference. again, imo, kill the mbody and the 'death' is meaningless because the mbody is merely a powerful representation of the concept -- the ACTUAL essence of the concept is not necessarily contained in the mbody. (kill anomaly's mbody, no big deal, it just reforms a new one).

and the reason for all this about mbodies, the onlookers ask? 😄

i still contend it was just a universe thanos absorbed. imo it was mbodies of eternity and infinity and lt that he absorbed. after he absorbed them, there was still 'universe' around them. after absorbing the mbodies, he went on to absorb the ACTUAL universe -- ie -- the ACTUAL infinity and eternity.

my respected opponent mr.m sees things differently. 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok.

But leon, that has nothing to do with the post you're replying to friend.

I said:

What does that have to do with what I told Ills?

My post doesn't say Eternity is a Universe walking inside a Universe.

But it also doesn't reject the notion that Eternity is the Universe.

how i read it? i had been under the impression that you thought the mbody was the totality of the universe. in the PAST you said eternity WAS the whole universe even WITHIN the universe, saying that -- illogical as it was -- that was simply the way it was.

but THEN you told ill you DIDN'T believe that to be the case anymore -- at least not in 'that' way.

regardless, my previous post tries to ensure that i am no longer in doubt about just exactly what your position is. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Good and fair question,

What I can't answer I don't.

I don't think it's happened before, that I know of.

But Eternity was inside the Universe when Thanos defeated him, and that resulted in Thanos becoming the entire Universe.

So hm

hehe. but it HAS happened before . . .

where?

in marvel universe: the end. and what happens when THAT mbody is destroyed by thanos with the hoti? there is still a universe left behind. the only way you can explain it is to speculate that thanos absorbed everything so fast that no void was left behind after he absorbed eternity and that he went on to absorb the whole MULTIVERSE. a multiverse that is NEVER mentioned in the series.

my idea is simpler -- asbord mbody, go on to absorb the ACTUAL universe. 🙂

i know, i know, you disagree. 🙂 that of course is what is making this fun. 😄

for those still interested in keeping this (at least my interpretation) straight:

imo, the mbody is just a representation of the essence of any abstract -- the essence expressed as a representational, physical form so beings like us (physicals) can interact and see them. the abstract has direct input regarding the nature of this representation. to me, that implies they have control over MORE than simply the physical appearance they are granted, it is control over the entire representational form. that would include appearance, power and anything else you can think of.

imo, it also means if an mbody is destroyed the essence remains intact, fully capable of creating a new mbody. now, depending on the power manifested in the mbody, it could be quite harmful to the essence, and take time to reform an mbody, but regardless, the essence WILL remain and reform a new mbody in time.

it also means that at times the essence CAN completely inhabit an mbody (ie -- if eternity's mbody is viewed OUTSIDE the universe, like when death was slain by the beyonder) but that is not NECESSARILY the case all the time, as with the destruction of the anomaly mbody, the destruction of eternity's OWN mbody in gotg, the dispersion of the mbodies in last planet could even fall under this definition.

oh, there was one point i wanted to add, mm, regarding that insane what if:

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=et5kx6.jpg

"It [the universe from which the entity departed] implodes upon itself til what once seemed infinite space could be bounded by a nutshell."

the universe DID NOT cease to exist. it collapsed, deprived of the essence represented by the entity. 🙂

"the sentient earth waits for a new entity to come and waken [as in the universe around it is sleeping] the COSMOS AROUND IT . . .

again, the cosmos/universe AROUND the sentient earth is simply dormant, waiting to be awakened. IT STILL EXISTED, only in a condensed, 'meangingless' form.

"it [the cosmos surrounding the sentient earth] awaits its OWN inevitable rebirth."

how could it 'await' anything if it was non-existent? again, the universe STILL EXISTED. it was condensed, and lacked meaning because the entity left and deprived it of the life force that granted it meaning.

🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
all righty . . . you did some clarifying for me. muchos gracias.

🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
1. you say a concept has sentience/life force/essence. we agree on that.

Yes.

Originally posted by leonidas
2. when an mbody is manifested by an abstract, it is MY contention that they do so to interact with physical beings, so that physical beings can perceive them. do you agree with this reasoning?

Yes, but ...

the Abstract transfers it's Full power to the M-body aswell. (imo)

Originally posted by leonidas
3. when an mbody IS manifested, it is my contention that the abstract takes a variable portion of its essence and places it into the mbody. (that's why an eternity mbody could only muster power enough to blow up a planet, for example)

I disagree with this,

because there's no proof that the power that goes into an M-body varies.

As far as the Eternity destroying a Planet scenerio, Eternity wasn't trying to blow up half the Universe, he was directly attacking Thanos.

Thanos could have absorbed the major blunt of the attack, resulting in just the Planet being destroyed.

Or should we say that Eternity is so naive and unknowing that he will appear with an M-body that at most can destroy a Planet to thwart a being he believes possesses the power Supreme?

He should of just sent a Herald Level being to battle Thanos 😉

Originally posted by leonidas
an mbody can be destroyed and that destruction can have no impact at all on the abstract concept itself.

(imo) There's only one incident that's valid where that took place.

The Anomaly, (you know my stance on the M-body Protege and B destroyed)

"which obeys no physical laws and is the exception to all rules"
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/AnomalyI.htm

The interesting observation I just noticed is NONE of the other Abstracts have in their bios,

"destroying the M-body will not destroy the Concept" except for the Anomaly's.

Be my guess and check it out.

Originally posted by leonidas
in some cases though, where the mbody clearly DOES represent the entirety of a concept (eternity's mbody viewed from outside the universe, for example) then the destruction of THAT mbody WOULD mean the destruction of the abstract as a whole.

(imo)

The M-body always represents the entirety of the Concept (sentience/life force/essence)

Originally posted by leonidas
now, i had thought you claimed the mbody was the entirety of an abstract, but that doesn't seem to be the case, because you say that if you [b]"Kill the M-body = Kill the Sentience (even if it's momentary) but Not the Life-Force" now, that is very close to my definition. what i don't get is why you feel the sentience needs to reside completely within the mbody, and why the distinction between 'sentience' and 'life force'? what exactly IS the difference between sentience and life force and where have you seen this distinction made apparent? [/B]

In the Anomaly (special circumstances imo) and Eternity case.

Anomaly was seemingly killed, but Maelstrom was still able to usurp the Concept, so that tells me,

"M-body = Kill the Sentience (even if it's momentary) but Not the Life-Force"

Eternity's Sentience wasn't exactly killed I think, but it was definitely rendered pointless, Thanos usurped the Concept.

Originally posted by leonidas
you also draw a line between erasing and killing. how do you see the 2 instances being different? beyonder erased death, but where did you see a concept 'killed'? personally, i don't see the difference.

I didn't see a Concept killed.

I saw an M-body that housed the Concept Erased from existence and so the Concept followed.

Originally posted by leonidas
again, imo, kill the mbody and the 'death' is meaningless because the mbody is merely a powerful representation of the concept --

I agree.

That's been my stance.

Originally posted by leonidas
the ACTUAL essence of the concept is not necessarily contained in the mbody. (kill anomaly's mbody, no big deal, it just reforms a new one).

I disagree, and I bet that's the only viable source of proof you have brother leon.

My only plausible answer as to the Anomaly case is here:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/AnomalyI.htm

The interesting observation I just noticed is NONE of the other Abstracts have in their bios,

"destroying the M-body will not destroy the Concept" except for the Anomaly's.

Don't mean to write this again, but it fits.

Honestly check out the Bios of the Concepts, none of them make this claim except for the Anomaly's bio.

Coincidence?

hm

Originally posted by leonidas
and the reason for all this about mbodies, the onlookers ask? 😄

i still contend it was just a universe thanos absorbed. imo it was mbodies of eternity and infinity and lt that he absorbed. after he absorbed them, there was still 'universe' around them. after absorbing the mbodies, he went on to absorb the ACTUAL universe -- ie -- the ACTUAL infinity and eternity.

As you already know I disagree 😂 (come on, you know you're giggling with me)

In order to convince me of this you must comprehensibly answer these questions:

After Thanos absorbed

the Living Tribunal - Eternity/Infinity - ALL the Abstracts - the entire Race of Celestials - the "gods" that were left - nearly every Hero and EVERY mainstream Hero.

"For IF this BAND Could Defy Me ... might not OTHERS be equally Foolish?"

"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?

"NO ... So I CONTINUED to Absorb ALL that MIGHT Threaten my Reign ... Until

"Nothing Remained"

Here are the questions:

"For IF this BAND Could Defy Me" (the Living Tribunal - Eternity/Infinity - ALL the Abstracts - the entire Race of Celestials - the "gods" that were left - nearly every Hero and EVERY mainstream Hero)

What Others from this One Universe could be equally Foolish?

"Who could question his divine Authority?"

Who MIGHT Threaten his Reign that Forced Thanos to "Continue to Absorb?

In this ONE Universe?

Originally posted by leonidas
my respected opponent mr.m sees things differently. 😄

As does my very respected opponent leon swank

Originally posted by leonidas
how i read it? i had been under the impression that you thought the mbody was the totality of the universe. in the PAST you said eternity WAS the whole universe even WITHIN the universe,

The dreams of youth, are the regrets of maturity.

Even if it's only been months.

Originally posted by leonidas
saying that -- illogical as it was -- that was simply the way it was.

glare

Originally posted by leonidas
but THEN you told ill you DIDN'T believe that to be the case anymore -- at least not in 'that' way.

Correcto ...

Originally posted by leonidas
regardless, my previous post tries to ensure that i am no longer in doubt about just exactly what your position is. 🙂

hug2

Originally posted by leonidas
in marvel universe: the end. and what happens when THAT mbody is destroyed by thanos with the hoti? there is still a universe left behind. the only way you can explain it is to speculate that thanos absorbed everything so fast that no void was left behind after he absorbed eternity and that he went on to absorb the whole MULTIVERSE.

That's exactly what happened.

Brilliant. euro

Originally posted by leonidas
a multiverse that is NEVER mentioned in the series.

Because it was the Marvel Universe = The Multiverse.

Tell me if you see the Multiverse mentioned here:

Epiphany:

"Can't you see he's blaiming himself for failing to kill you and save the Universe?"

Captain Marvel:

"think of all the times you saved the Universe"

"Truth is. the Universe was living on borrowed time"

"the truth is, the Universe did END with a whimper, Eternity didn't want to keep going"

no2

And yet it is the Multiverse

Backside Front Page:

"ENTROPY is the Son of,

Eternity, the Cosmic Being whose Essence Encompasses the ENTIRETY of the MULTIVERSE ...

Entropy has enlisted Captain Marvel in a Quest to Destroy His Father,

... Eternity and End All Creation"

Originally posted by leonidas
my idea is simpler -- asbord mbody, go on to absorb the ACTUAL universe.

It's a simple explanation with several loopholes.

Starting with my questions.

Originally posted by leonidas
i know, i know, you disagree. that of course is what is making this fun. 😄

cheers

Originally posted by leonidas
for those still interested in keeping this (at least my interpretation) straight:

imo, the mbody is just a representation of the essence of any abstract -- the essence expressed as a representational, physical form so beings like us (physicals) can interact and see them. the abstract has direct input regarding the nature of this representation. to me, that implies they have control over MORE than simply the physical appearance they are granted, it is control over the entire representational form. that would include appearance, power and anything else you can think of.

imo, it also means if an mbody is destroyed the essence remains intact, fully capable of creating a new mbody. now, depending on the power manifested in the mbody, it could be quite harmful to the essence, and take time to reform an mbody, but regardless, the essence WILL remain and reform a new mbody in time.

it also means that at times the essence CAN completely inhabit an mbody (ie -- if eternity's mbody is viewed OUTSIDE the universe, like when death was slain by the beyonder) but that is not NECESSARILY the case all the time, as with the destruction of the anomaly mbody, the destruction of eternity's OWN mbody in gotg, the dispersion of the mbodies in last planet could even fall under this definition.

I don't agree with several points here, so I'll overlook it's specifics since it was addressed to the onlookers concerning your opiniated stance on the matter.

Then again I addressed most of what I disagree with.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh, there was one point i wanted to add, mm, regarding that insane what if:

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=et5kx6.jpg

"It [the universe from which the entity departed] implodes upon itself til what once seemed infinite space could be bounded by a nutshell."

Ok ... that's what happened.

Originally posted by leonidas
the universe DID NOT cease to exist. it collapsed, deprived of the essence represented by the entity.

"the sentient earth waits for a new entity to come and waken [as in the universe around it is sleeping] the COSMOS AROUND IT . . .

I disagree, (imo)

Awaken as in Create a New Universe in the Void around the Earth.

The neighboring Void was labeled "a Universe" in plain english when it was a Void.

Why should I not think it's doing the same thing with this terminology?

Originally posted by leonidas
again, the cosmos/universe AROUND the sentient earth is simply dormant, waiting to be awakened. IT STILL EXISTED, only in a condensed, 'meangingless' form.

I disagree, the Watcher clarifies it:

"Thus Ends one Continuum of Time & Space"

Notice one side is a Void with just the Earth, while the other is a living Cosmos.

Originally posted by leonidas
"it [the cosmos surrounding the sentient earth] awaits its OWN inevitable rebirth."

how could it 'await' anything if it was non-existent? again, the universe STILL EXISTED. it was condensed, and lacked meaning because the entity left and deprived it of the life force that granted it meaning.

"Existed?"

Again, the neighboring Void was a Universe also ...

a DEAD (sleeping) Universe = a Void.

"Into Another Universe, existing beside the one we have known"

Got cha. 😎

Originally posted by Mr Master I disagree with this,

because there's no proof that the power that goes into an M-body varies.

As far as the Eternity destroying a Planet scenerio, Eternity wasn't trying to blow up half the Universe, he was directly attacking Thanos.

Thanos could have absorbed the major blunt of the attack, resulting in just the Planet being destroyed.

could have but that it never mentioned. in fact, he even goes on to say he was fond of his hq and planet that eternity destroyed. if he was gonna 'blunt' the attack, as you say, why not simply absorb ALL of it?

there was another part of that scene that ALSO adds merit to the notion that it was ONLY a universe thanos absorbed. while he is talking to eternity, thanos says:

"Your lord and master has abandoned you, Eternity, to a dismal fate. Before you sits your only hope for survival."

again, further evidence, imo, that it was only a UNIVERSE that was put at risk by the crisis thanos was trying to rectify.

Or should we say that Eternity is so naive and unknowing that he will appear with an M-body that at most can destroy a Planet to thwart a being he believes possesses the power Supreme?

i could answer that, knowing the power thanos had, eternity would well have known it wouldn't MATTER what level of power he brought to bear. in that case, why RISK placing all his power in an mbody? if thanos got too po'd, he could have killled him and everything right there. i could also add that while it may be true i have only indirect evidence regarding my idea of mbodies NOT encompassing the totality of the concept, you have no definitive proof to substaniate your claim either. 😄

this is a battle of opinion! boxing

He should of just sent a Herald Level being to battle Thanos 😉

then he would be lt? 😄

(imo) There's only one incident that's valid where that took place.

The Anomaly, (you know my stance on the M-body Protege and B destroyed)

"which obeys no physical laws and is the exception to all rules"
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/AnomalyI.htm

The interesting observation I just noticed is NONE of the other Abstracts have in their bios,

"destroying the M-body will not destroy the Concept" except for the Anomaly's.

Be my guess and check it out.

😂

i trust you. i'm just remembering back to a time just a couple months ago when you would rather have suffered this:

giljotiini

then used bios as proof. 😄

meh, calling the anomaly a 'special case' doesn't work well for me. it's an abstract like any other. i see no need for a special case because, as you're well aware by now, frankly what happened makes perfect sense to me. 🙂

(imo)

The M-body always represents the entirety of the Concept (sentience/life force/essence)

In the Anomaly (special circumstances imo) and Eternity case.

Anomaly was seemingly killed, but Maelstrom was still able to usurp the Concept, so that tells me,

"M-body = Kill the Sentience (even if it's momentary) but Not the Life-Force"

Eternity's Sentience wasn't exactly killed I think, but it was definitely rendered pointless, Thanos usurped the Concept.

and here is where we differ. to me, what happened to anomaly is exactly what happened to eternity. mbody defeated, a more powerful force usurped the conceptual position. had malestrom NOT become the anomaly, had he just tossed the mbody into oblivion and left it at that, what do you think would have happened? i think anomaly would simply have reformed and retaken its position again -- as it ultimately did anyway, after it was vacated by malestrom. exactly as eternity regained HIS position after it was vacated by thanos. i truly see no difference between the 2 scenarios.

i'll get to the other posts later. i look forward to the challenge of getting you to admit it really WAS just a universe. 😄

okay, let's see what can be done about this:

Originally posted by Mr Master
In order to convince me of this [that it was a universe and not the multiverse that thanos absorbed] you must comprehensibly answer these questions:

[B]What Others from this One Universe could be equally Foolish?

"Who could question his divine Authority?"

Who MIGHT Threaten his Reign that Forced Thanos to "Continue to Absorb?

In this ONE Universe?

[/B]

all righty. Who indeed . . .?

well, looking back at that climactic battle against thanos in the end, I was surprised at the lack of MANY of the universe’s biggest guns.

Obvious by their lack of presence were both death and oblivion in the battle, though it was later shown that apparently universal death exists in a realm . . . outside the multiverse . . .? 😕 unless your contention is that was MULTI-death we saw. An odd contention because no proof exists to support such a thought. Anyway, I can see death (universal) not being absorbed because it exists outside the universe, or maybe it sensed what was happening and got outta dodge, but to simply exist in a place outside the multiverse? Beyond the multiverse would be beyond all time and space. No time, no space, no death. 😬 besides, we’ve SEEN a multi-death summoned by the beyonder. Clearly is DOES exist within the multiverse, so even MULTI-death SHOULD have been absorbed under your theory. It wasn’t. To me that means death was simply outside the universe (easy enough to understand) which thanos absorbed. Atleza’s realm ALSO must exist outside the multiverse based on your conjecture. Using your new fave bio-site ( 😄 ) it clearly states that atleza anchors ONLY a universe. So, were the multiverse truly absorbed, atleza’s realm would have gone with it. Clearly it didn’t because that’s where warlock was holed up when he missed the end of the ‘universe’ – according to thanos.

Anyway, other characters/beings who could cause grief to thanos and his new station – especially if they actually act in character, like true uber-powerful abstracts and use their brains rather than simply attack en masse like a bunch of pis-induced morons ( 😄 ):

a prime problem may be anomaly, who showed itself capable of withstanding the IG. Backed again by oblivion, anomaly alone could be a problem. Factor in along with oblivion and anomaly other characters like full-power meggan, all the magical beings working in concert (vishanti, mephisto, satannish, dormmamu who was once powerful enough to challenge eternity on 2 separate occasions, nightmare who also challenged and briefly imprisoned eternity – if one of them gathered all the artifacts strange used to stave off the IG for a time, THEY could also be enormously powerful). The cube beings all working together, or perhaps some of the remaining cosmics gather separate cubes – you know well what they could do – thanos would know better. 🙂 the whole RACE of the watchers might help some as well.

jim jaspers could be viewed as a problem, especially if he is present at the same time as the phoenix force (who usually makes some appearance when the universe is in jeopardy). If they work together, they are MORE then clever enough to find the ultimate nullifier to use against thanos – tyrant may know where to find it. Odd characters like origin and the unbeing are still out there, siseneg and molecule man who once threatened the multiverse. Then too, if he went on to try and absorb the MULTIVERSE he would STILL be threatened. The likes of the cap britain corps, the sword and amulet, merlin. And what about the omniverse? Why stop at the multiverse? Threats aplenty would STILL exist out in the omniverse. Other versions of eternity, lt, etc . . . He really would certainly NOT gain the all-encompassing peace you say he was after bby simply stopping at the multiverse.

Anyway, there are lots of reasons that he may have still have NOT felt completely comfortable leaving the universe as it was, lots of power STILL out there, and lots of highly intelligent beings to USE that power. Not to mention his OWN penchant for losing power. With lt out of the picture, perhaps some of the beings could have worked together to get the gems again. Without lt to uphold his decision, would the ban on the gems still be in effect? Why take the chance – finish absorbing the totality of the universe and be done with it.

i'm sure there are some i've missed -- your the 'cosmic guy' ( 😄 ) you probably know a couple i missed. but, those aforementioned alone, with possible weapons and schemes and plans COULD be as much a threat as the group that attacked him to begin with. only lt is missing, but he didn't exactly stand out from the others ANYWAY in terms of displayed power.

so, there you have it. you asked for an answer, there it is.

swank

😂

(always wanted to use that smilie! 😄 )

Originally posted by leonidas
could have but that it never mentioned. in fact, he even goes on to say he was fond of his hq and planet that eternity destroyed. if he was gonna 'blunt' the attack, as you say, why not simply absorb ALL of it?

there was another part of that scene that ALSO adds merit to the notion that it was ONLY a universe thanos absorbed. while he is talking to eternity, thanos says:

"Your lord and master has abandoned [b]you, Eternity, to a dismal fate. Before you sits your only hope for survival."

again, further evidence, imo, that it was only a UNIVERSE that was put at risk by the crisis thanos was trying to rectify. [/B]

"Further evidence?"

You haven't even gotten the ball rolling to move it further. 🙂

It was a Universal Flaw, that would spread to the rest of the Omniverse.

Thus:

"For in the Absence of Life there can be NO Death"

Originally posted by leonidas
i could answer that, knowing the power thanos had, eternity would well have known it wouldn't MATTER what level of power he brought to bear. in that case, why RISK placing all his power in an mbody? if thanos got too po'd, he could have killled him and everything right there. i could also add that while it may be true i have only indirect evidence regarding my idea of mbodies NOT encompassing the totality of the concept, you have no definitive proof to substaniate your claim either.

this is a battle of opinion!

Or common sense.

Eternity came to relinquish the Power, you say he didn't want to put to much energy into his M-body so he came with an M-body that's MAX capacity is to destroy ONE Planet. 😂

Come on leon, come on.

He would've atleast put the Power of ONE Galaxy destroying being, so as to not be SO beneath even Odin. 😆

Of course I'm being funny.

There's absolutely NO way that Eternity who houses Trillions upon Trillions of Galaxies, is coming with the Power of ONE Planet to usurp Thanos with the Supreme Power.

Originally posted by leonidas
i trust you. i'm just remembering back to a time just a couple months ago when you would rather have suffered this:

then used bios as proof.

I'm not using Bios as proof.

I'm combining Bio and On Panel Facts to build an concrete case.

If it happens in a bio, but Not On Panel it's UN Acceptable to me.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, calling the anomaly a 'special case' doesn't work well for me. it's an abstract like any other. i see no need for a special case because, as you're well aware by now, frankly what happened makes perfect sense to me.

I feel you, I'm just letting it be known, that NO other Abstract Bio makes that claim except for the Anomaly's.

Originally posted by leonidas
and here is where we differ. to me, what happened to anomaly is exactly what happened to eternity. mbody defeated, a more powerful force usurped the conceptual position. had malestrom NOT become the anomaly, had he just tossed the mbody into oblivion and left it at that, what do you think would have happened? i think anomaly would simply have reformed and retaken its position again -- as it ultimately did anyway, after it was vacated by malestrom. exactly as eternity regained HIS position after it was vacated by thanos. i truly see no difference between the 2 scenarios.

Eternity wasn't killed, he placed in suspended animation:

The Anomaly is a special case IMO, due to what I read in it's UNIQUE Bio.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, looking back at that climactic battle against thanos in the end, I was surprised at the lack of MANY of the universe’s biggest guns.

Obvious by their lack of presence were both death and oblivion in the battle,

Death was Outside the influence of Space and Time.

Oblivion I'm sure enjoyed the show.

It's in Oblivion's interest for Thanos to make everything a Void.

Oblivion is the Void.

Originally posted by leonidas
though it was later shown that apparently universal death exists in a realm . . . outside the multiverse . . .?

You're confused cause your picturing the Multiverse like a long line, with Universe after Universe standing like dominos.

But in fact this is how it's shaped:

Atleza's Realm is Outside of Time & Space aswell.

Step Outside ONE Sphere and your beyond Space and Time, regardless of whether your towards the top or bottom of this Vortex.

All are equally OUTSIDE the Influence of Time and Space if they are OUTSIDE the Blue Ball.

Originally posted by leonidas
unless your contention is that was MULTI-death we saw. An odd contention because no proof exists to support such a thought.

My explanation right above addresses this.

Originally posted by leonidas
Anyway, I can see death (universal) not being absorbed because it exists outside the universe,

If you exist Out side the Space/Time Continuum of a Universe, you exist Outside the Space/Time Continuum of every Universe.

There is Space between Universes, when you stand in that Space, you are disconnected from ALL Time and Space in existence.

Originally posted by leonidas
or maybe it sensed what was happening and got outta dodge, but to simply exist in a place outside the multiverse?

Death couldn't escape the FLAW, only Thanos.

Originally posted by leonidas
Beyond the multiverse would be beyond all time and space. No time, no space, no death.

Beyond the Universe would be the same, No time, no Space, No death.

Originally posted by leonidas
besides, we’ve SEEN a multi-death summoned by the beyonder. Clearly is DOES exist within the multiverse,

Incorrect, that was Universal Death.

And regardless

Originally posted by leonidas
so even MULTI-death SHOULD have been absorbed under your theory. It wasn’t.

By my theory Death survives.

Death's Realm is Outside the Space & Time, so you can absorb the Multiverse, and Death will still survive.

Thanos ONLY absorbed Time & Space:

Originally posted by leonidas
To me that means death was simply outside the universe (easy enough to understand) which thanos absorbed.

By your theory Universal Death should have been absorbed just aswell.

You're funny.

Multi-Death has to die if you absorb the Multiverse,

but Universal Death survives if you absorb the Universe? dontgetit

Originally posted by leonidas
Atleza’s realm ALSO must exist outside the multiverse based on your conjecture. Using your new fave bio-site ( 😄 ) it clearly states that atleza anchors ONLY a universe. So, were the multiverse truly absorbed, atleza’s realm would have gone with it. Clearly it didn’t because that’s where warlock was holed up when he missed the end of the ‘universe’ – according to thanos.

Again, you don't know how the Reality is configured so your using logic to understand.

Atleza's Realm like Death's is SEPARATED from Time & Space.

Anything OUTSIDE of Time and Space SURVIVED Thanos's absorption. 🙂

Vishanti could care less about the demise of Eternity

If Doctor Strange (who was absorbed with the rest) doesn't call on them to help,

they ain't coming.

Mephisto was absorbed.

Satannish exists in a Pocket Realm outside 616

and Dormmamu's Dark Dimension is a Universe unto itself.

Nightmare? 😂

Originally posted by leonidas
if one of them gathered all the artifacts strange used to stave off the IG for a time, THEY could also be enormously powerful).

If they gathered ALL of Strange's Artifacts like Strange did against Warlock,

they would get stomped just like Strange got Stomped against the POWER GEM ALONE.

"stave off the IG for a time"

Not on Strange's best day, (with ALL of his Talismans COMBINED)

"But Knowing in ADVANCE that Warlock Possessed it" (Power Gem)

"I had Arranged for ALL My TALISMANS to Act TOGETHER to COUNTERACT it"

"Which even I KNOW, almost at once, CANNOT LONG ENDURE" (and this is ONLY the Power Gem)

"Warlock STILL has NOT used his Sixth and Final Weapon" (

SEE, Warlock was USING the Gems SEPARATELY!

Soul Gem:

Strange reaches Warlock through his Soul Gem to communicate with him

Strange tells Warlock of the Future, and Warlock sees that it is true

This is Strange talking:

"He sees himself Victorious over me, DESTROYING Me, as must certainly happen ANY moment Now"

Warlock ALWAYS Knew the outcome of this drama

Originally posted by leonidas
The cube beings all working together,

Kubik = pocket dimension Warper

Shaper of Worlds = Global Warper

No other Cubes.

Originally posted by leonidas
or perhaps some of the remaining cosmics gather separate cubes –

They would have to go to other Universes to find them,

again giving Thanos a reason to absorb the Multiverse.

Originally posted by leonidas
you know well what they could do – thanos would know better

Without getting their hands on them, nothing.

What remaining Cosmic anyway?

They were all absorbed.

Originally posted by leonidas
the whole RACE of the watchers might help some as well.

Who never interfere and were wiped out anyway before this arc.

Originally posted by leonidas
jim jaspers could be viewed as a problem,

The End: took place in 2003.

HOM where Jaspers' resurfaced was in 2005.

Originally posted by leonidas
especially if he is present at the same time as the phoenix force (who usually makes some appearance when the universe is in jeopardy).
If they work together, they are MORE then clever enough to find the ultimate nullifier to use against thanos –

Inconsequential, Jaspers wasn't around, and Jean was Obliterated by Ahkenaten.

Originally posted by leonidas
tyrant may know where to find it.

Tyrant was destroyed before this.

Originally posted by leonidas
Odd characters like origin and the unbeing are still out there,

The Un-being would love for the Universe to be destroyed.

Originally posted by leonidas
siseneg

I haven't seen Sisneg in a Comic since the early 80's

Originally posted by leonidas
molecule man who once threatened the multiverse.

Owen Reece is a passive individual, living an incognito life, the last thing on his mind if Thanos, we've only seen all powerful Molecule Man once, and he only hates the Beyonder.

Thanos was definitely NOT threatened by him.

Originally posted by leonidas
Then too, if he went on to try and absorb the MULTIVERSE he would STILL be threatened. The likes of the cap britain corps, the sword and amulet, merlin.

ALL outside the 616 Universe.

Originally posted by leonidas
And what about the omniverse? Why stop at the multiverse? Threats aplenty would STILL exist out in the omniverse. Other versions of eternity, lt, etc . . . He really would certainly NOT gain the all-encompassing peace you say he was after bby simply stopping at the multiverse.

There are NO Other Eternity's Outside the Multiverse.

The Prime hierarchy exist only in the Multiverse.

"Realms LACKING this Hierarchy of Power are OUTSIDE the Multiverse"

Originally posted by leonidas
Anyway, there are lots of reasons that he may have still have NOT felt completely comfortable leaving the universe as it was, lots of power STILL out there, and lots of highly intelligent beings to USE that power. Not to mention his OWN penchant for losing power.

You haven't named one viable threat.

Originally posted by leonidas
With lt out of the picture, perhaps some of the beings could have worked together to get the gems again. Without lt to uphold his decision, would the ban on the gems still be in effect? Why take the chance – finish absorbing the totality of the universe and be done with it.

Unfortunately, the Gems were in the Rune Universe.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'm sure there are some i've missed -- your the 'cosmic guy' you probably know a couple i missed. but, those aforementioned alone, with possible weapons and schemes and plans COULD be as much a threat as the group that attacked him to begin with. only lt is missing, but he didn't exactly stand out from the others ANYWAY in terms of displayed power.

so, there you have it. you asked for an answer, there it is.

You wasn't successful but I can't say the attempt wasn't valiant swank

Originally posted by Mr Master
"Further evidence?"

You haven't even gotten the ball rolling to move it further. 🙂

It was a Universal Flaw, that would spread to the rest of the Omniverse.[

now it's omniverse . . .? 😕 that's the problem with making things more complicated than they NEED to be. how do the complications get resolved? but EXPANDING the complexity. saying it was simply a universe keeps things a lot simpler.

Or common sense.

Eternity came to relinquish the Power, you say he didn't want to put to much energy into his M-body so he came with an M-body that's MAX capacity is to destroy ONE Planet. 😂

Come on leon, come on.

He would've atleast put the Power of ONE Galaxy destroying being, so as to not be SO beneath even Odin. 😆

Of course I'm being funny.

There's absolutely NO way that Eternity who houses Trillions upon Trillions of Galaxies, is coming with the Power of ONE Planet to usurp Thanos with the Supreme Power.

actually i thought it WAS pretty sensical. why run the risk of being COMPLETELY obliterated when he know doubt knew what was coming for thanos later? either way he'd have known regardless of his power, that he could not win. if he uses SOME power he makes his point and if the body is destroyed, no harm done. to use ALL his power and be destroyed . . . when lt and the others are planning an assault makes no sense.

your only alternative to this scenario is to say:

eternity could muster power enough only to destroy a PLANET, or to say thanos absorbed a 'little' of the attack but didn't bother to absorb enough of it to save the hq and planet he was fond of. problem with that is it was never mentioned at all that that happened. i just try to rationalize why eternity's on-panel attack wasn't very strong. we're BOTH speculating. you prefer your opinion, i like mine. 🙂

Eternity wasn't killed, he placed in suspended animation:

exactly. but anomaly was NOT "killed" either. its position was usurped by a superior force. it's mbody was killed. the concept remained. had thanos tossed eternity's mbody into oblivion, the mbody would be gone, eternity's position would be forfeit UNTIL thanos was beaten than a new mbody would have reformed and eternity would have taken back its rightful place. anamoly was just waiting in abstract form (the form that is its NATURAL state) for a chance t take back its position.

exactly the same as eternity did. 🙂