Originally posted by Starhawk
When did Mags ever make a wormhole? And theres no way he could take Strange out before he casts his spell.
yess their is he could just hit strange really really hard (like he did the hulk except with the hulk he was holding back)
at the end of dissembled mags makes a wormhole and grabs wanda
Originally posted by Starhawk
But he never displayed dimension hopping power. And Big O can't speedblitz hence he couldn't stop Strange in time.
why can't he speed blitz (i'm not saying he's a speedster or anything but at least as fast as strange)
If he can make a worm hole i don't see why that worm hole can't get him out of a dimension. I asked you about that like a page ago. as for Onslaught really geting out of another dimension I don't know if he can. the best bet he will have to defend himself against that type of an attack is to get away as fast as possible or let an avatar fight them first while he is at a concelled location.
other then the deffenders cracking his shell then for silver surfer, hulk and namor to go into onslaughts psionic form then for strange to kill them and onslaught I really can't think of a way they are going to beat him. Once he's in his final form their really isn't anything they can do to him though physical means. I don't even know if psionic attacks would work on him either.
Originally posted by jasofisc
Onslaught would just blast them (telekenitik, magnitic, psionic) them untell they were unconsciences. also besides a ring out how are stange and surfer going to take out onslaught? Also what pure psionic beings have they fought? Another think if the only way the heros were able to get though onslaugt's shiled was thought the creativeness of dr. doom. now I know silver surfer and dr. stange are powerfull but are they more powerfull then the avengers, x-men, FF, and others?
(when has it been stated on panel that them fighing against his control ment anything at all to his power. )
He at first had a few problems using them but later in the saga he fully assimulted them and changed to his final form.
surfer was smoking after his attack it could have been a teleknitic attack instead of a telepathione. therefore if proff x got hit by the same attack he would be ash.
While SS speedblitz Onslaught, Strange does strange things and Hulk smashes. Namor takes pictures for the undersea version of the Dialy Bugle and goes for a swim.
Onslaught can win, but Strange will just chop his access to Franklin's powers (not as complicated as absorbing Shuma Gorath's) and then O goes down like a chump.
Originally posted by Roldz
Durability wise both have survived planetary/Nova explosion, blackholes/extreme gravity implosion.. Then theres SS speed, Onslaught posses none of the reflex to match those.. First off Strange wells time to stop (from then on there would be so much option he has at his disposal), Travel back in time and stop Onslaught from being created, possess artifact within him artifacts that nearly hold off IG, banishment, absortion.. Same w/ SS could absorb what Onslaught since his pure psionic energy, you know him being capable of absorbing soul to psionic energy and thats against a totality/presentation of reality kinda like Eternity but on a diff. reality, Binds himself to Onslaught and free both mutants his done this to Unilord, Travel back in time, or just pure destructive force, BFR him to diff. dimention or end of time.. Those are just a few option they have at there disposal that i could think off right now... For psionic being the fought well theres Umar, The Other/or manifestation of it (SS won against the manifestation but not the totality of the Other), The mind gem.. Heck they've fought abstract beings before some won and lost..Why would he have to fully assimilate them if he already fully in control of there powers on the first place?
Fully assimilated they were not, the two were rescued.. To be fully assimilated is to become one with them or them to him, yet they were able to yank them out...
If he was able to undo the block that Franklin full potential put to himself
that would mean he was above him already on the first place and would not need Franklin if his capable of that kind of power.. So many what if's, this is why i deslike dicussin about speculations...The energy you see is SS displaying his powers, notice the color of the blast differs from energy being displayed..
just because the color is differt doesn't mean anything and it was smoke from what i could see your streaching.
assemlation is differnt from comic to comic. x was rescuded too that doesn't mean he wasn't assimulated. any way that in no way suggest that he didn't have full control of his powers. once again it was never stated on panel that he didn't have full control of their powers you made that up same with most of your info on onslaught.
As for your fight senario I could see how that would work. However if onslaught goes all out and hit him with everything he has he going to do a lot of dammage and onslaught can do that while holding the rest at bay like he did in Onslaught x-men. as for SS and Strange surviving plantary explosions and supernova's that the worst kind of pis in comics for a non galactus level person to do that. Yeah I know that they have done it. But if they have that kind of duriblity then any hit they would sustain that would even move their head would destroy the the city they were in by the force of the blow. This just doesn't happen in their comics so it's inconsistent.
In the thanos run (actully i don't remember what comic this happened in) where the cosmic hero's were fighing omega (a thanos clone that also had the dna of galactus) Thanos whose energy beams have bested surfer in one blow were said to be able to destroy mountains. That's really cool but if surfer is able to surive a supernove without so much as sweating those beams from thaons shouldn't do anything. So what i'm saying is surfer and strange (in fact anybody besides galactus) Should go down with a force that can destroy mountains. which I beleve onslaught has at his disposal.
Originally posted by Starhawk
The fact that he can travel all over earth with these 'holes' doesnt mean it works accross dimensions.Thor tried to attack Strange and got banished. I don't see Big O going faster then Thor.
true enough and your right it doesn't mean he can do that accross dimensions he's only done it once and that was across the world. I just think that it might work since no one really know much about worm holes an in event horizon that ship could dimentional hop thanks to a worm hole.
Originally posted by jasofisc
just because the color is differt doesn't mean anything and it was smoke from what i could see your streaching.assemlation is differnt from comic to comic. x was rescuded too that doesn't mean he wasn't assimulated. any way that in no way suggest that he didn't have full control of his powers. once again it was never stated on panel that he didn't have full control of their powers you made that up same with most of your info on onslaught.
As for your fight senario I could see how that would work. However if onslaught goes all out and hit him with everything he has he going to do a lot of dammage and onslaught can do that while holding the rest at bay like he did in Onslaught x-men. as for SS and Strange surviving plantary explosions and supernova's that the worst kind of pis in comics for a non galactus level person to do that. Yeah I know that they have done it. But if they have that kind of duriblity then any hit they would sustain that would even move their head would destroy the the city they were in by the force of the blow. This just doesn't happen in their comics so it's inconsistent.
In the thanos run (actully i don't remember what comic this happened in) where the cosmic hero's were fighing omega (a thanos clone that also had the dna of galactus) Thanos whose energy beams have bested surfer in one blow were said to be able to destroy mountains. That's really cool but if surfer is able to surive a supernove without so much as sweating those beams from thaons shouldn't do anything. So what i'm saying is surfer and strange (in fact anybody besides galactus) Should go down with a force that can destroy mountains. which I beleve onslaught has at his disposal.
Hit him with everythin like what Solar/Galaxy destorying blast? Even if he could do it how in heck is he going to hit them, both are SOFL faster than him.. I quess you're calling majority of SS and Strange comics Piss then, Kinda funny considering your argument of a char's is only based on speculation of own power not actual feat like what SS/Strange done..
And yeah SS/Strange has taken Planetary to Solar destroying blast before not unscathe but survived..
You mean desame Thanos that challenge and put up a good fight against Odin/Tyrant/Maker/WMThor w/ power gem/and all the heroes of Earth...
Originally posted by Roldz
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=surfervsmoondragon2nu2.jpg
I was reffering to the bottom panel not the middle but it really doent matter his taken out telepathic attacks before..
He was born from the minds of prof. X differ than assimilation, and i could say desame, its was never stated he had full control of both the mutants power.. Again your speculating about the full powers of Onslaught basing it to the potential that both mutant were capable off, feats that they themselves accomplish way after the Onslaught saga which alot of char. development on there part happened after that event.. The only way i can debate against that is through speculation and my own view on that event (Onslaught arc).. This is how i see it, unless you can prove me otherwise then am not wrong..Hit him with everythin like what Solar/Galaxy destorying blast? Even if he could do it how in heck is he going to hit them, both are SOFL faster than him.. I quess you're calling majority of SS and Strange comics Piss then, Kinda funny considering your argument of a char's is only based on speculation of own power not actual feat like what SS/Strange done..
And yeah SS/Strange has taken Planetary to Solar destroying blast before not unscathe but survived..
You mean desame Thanos that challenge and put up a good fight against Odin/Tyrant/Maker/WMThor w/ power gem/and all the heroes of Earth...
my thanos comment was to show the inconsistancy of the power of cosmics. If they can survive at all a supernova then nothing less then a plantary explostion scale attack should even get their attention. But thanos whose beam are stated as mountain destroying is able to take out quite a few cosmic (people belove skyfather level like ss) with one blow. The point of this comment is that cosmic level battles are not as planet shattering as people make them out to be. And quite a few comics of both surfer and strange they don't destroy planets and attacks that are far less then supernova's have taken them out.
I was think you ment the middle panel that was my fault. But my point is still valid as far as it being a different attack (telekinitic instead of telepathic)
yes you could say the same and your opinion would be as vaild as mine. but you said earlyer that it was on panel which it was not.
As far as this fight goes what are the diffenders going to really do to onslaught (expect for battle field removal) If strange goes back in time then he's removing himself from the battle. they can blast him with all the energy they have and it's not going to make a difference the best they can hope for is to crack his shell. Then what? they blast him some more that's not going to do anything. Their telepathic attacks are not going to help either he is living psionic energy. the only way I can see them wining is the one i stated above.
Originally posted by jasofisc
my thanos comment was to show the inconsistancy of the power of cosmics. If they can survive at all a supernova then nothing less then a plantary explostion scale attack should even get their attention. But thanos whose beam are stated as mountain destroying is able to take out quite a few cosmic (people belove skyfather level like ss) with one blow. The point of this comment is that cosmic level battles are not as planet shattering as people make them out to be. And quite a few comics of both surfer and strange they don't destroy planets and attacks that are far less then supernova's have taken them out.
I was think you ment the middle panel that was my fault. But my point is still valid as far as it being a different attack (telekinitic instead of telepathic)
yes you could say the same and your opinion would be as vaild as mine. but you said earlyer that it was on panel which it was not.
As far as this fight goes what are the diffenders going to really do to onslaught (expect for battle field removal) If strange goes back in time then he's removing himself from the battle. they can blast him with all the energy they have and it's not going to make a difference the best they can hope for is to crack his shell. Then what? they blast him some more that's not going to do anything. Their telepathic attacks are not going to help either he is living psionic energy. the only way I can see them wining is the one i stated above.
Originally posted by Roldz
Thats probably the only issue youll see someone mentioned Thanos blast equals to leveling a mountain, heck Havok blast are capable of doing that.. Depending on the writer, Chars varies in power say SS being brought down by a block of cement then a little later he takes a planetary blast from the like of Korvak.. Or how bout taken a barrage of hit from a savage Hulk (No banner) and is unscathe, this guy broke Onslaughts armor.. Tell me somethin other than Thanos theres not many that even remotely hurt SS, dont even get me started w/ Strange.. You can protest all you want but its been shown on consistant bases that this Chars are capable of withstanding those kind of attack and also capable of dishing it as well... Whats the point of writing them that way it would be over too soon, thats why you always see them writin holding back, specially in cases of SS...How often do you see Moondragon do TK blast ive never even seen her do it, Ive read Warlocks IW/Chronicles series and shes always done psionic attacks, so why would she suddenly change her tactics to TK attacks... Strange..
I was referring to Both Franklin/Nate fighting off Onslaughts hold on them and thats on panel and from there on i speculated about Onslaughts level of power..
Living psionic energies as i say whats to stop them from absorbing/bind him Strange has done that to the likes of IB or Shura.. SS could also absorb him his done that this absorb enough psionic energies to lay waste a Universe against an Abstract, way beyond Onslaught..
Sooooo Silver surfer is abstract level now?.... Just because he's beaten people more powerfull then onslaught doesn't mean he can beat onslaught on a kmc fight. also if thor could not contain onslaught by himself how is silver going to.
yeah them "fighting off onslaughts hold on them" is on panel however them doing that and having an effect is not.
How often do you see tp blast leave smoke? that's even more lutercris then her useing a tk blast
As for the power level thing i perfer to go by they average power showings not their highest. Also I think i gave my reasoning that if they are so durible and powerful they would not be able to fight on a planet (because it would be destoied even if they were holding back) surfer and stange are beats no doubt about it but they are still able to fight on a planet and strain to beat someone with out destoying the planet. Surfer took a punch from she-hulk and it barely moved his head and she hurt her hand. but if the supernove thing is hold true for his duriblity then her punch should be able to destoy a planet and the force of her hand hitting his head should destroy the whole nation they were in. Their power levels just don't hold though or make any since. All writers should get together and decited on the max power character should have so morons don't get carried away. (btw havok destoying a mountain is total PIS if he's ever done that)
Originally posted by darthgoober
I say the team takes this. Onslaught may be POTENTIALLY as powerful as Franklin, but he lacks the feats to prove it, and Franklin's powers are the only thing that would give Onslaught a chance to win this IMO.
i agree I'm just have a hard time believing that those four could beat someone who all the other teams and a few villains had a very very very very hard time with.
