Originally posted by jasofisc
i agree I'm just have a hard time believing that those four could beat someone who all the other teams and a few villains had a very very very very hard time with.
Marvel wanted to do the whole "Heroes Reborn" thing. That's the only reason it worked out that way.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes but Thor was just about the only significantly powerful person of note in that fight, he didn't fight to NEAR his capability.Marvel wanted to do the whole "Heroes Reborn" thing. That's the only reason it worked out that way.
I don't think that was the reason (I don't know) dr. doom, hulk, josph were there. reed was also there him and his group have been able to take out a lot higher cosmics before
Originally posted by jasofisc
I don't think that was the reason (I don't know) dr. doom, hulk, josph were there. reed was also there him and his group have been able to take out a lot higher cosmics before
Originally posted by jasofisc
I'm still saying onslaugth takes this we didn't see one tenth of his potential in the saga. plus i don't think the defenders could take the x-men, FF, Avengers, Hulk, Doctor doom and a host of others.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Exactly, POTENTIAL. He never displayed abilities that would put him over this team of heroes. Beyond what he's ACTUALLY shown, it's all just speculation. It could be easily said, that Surfer hasn't shown all of his potential as well, but that kind of thing isn't really usable in a debate. If he had shown any real mastery of Franklin's abilities, then there's a good chance that he could take it, but since he never showed that level of ability, the Defenders take it every time.
yeah but he never has even strained to do anything (in his final form) it's totaly differnt from the whole surfer thing.
Originally posted by jasofisc
yeah but he never has even strained to do anything (in his final form) it's totaly differnt from the whole surfer thing.
Originally posted by darthgoober
How much effort he put into his feats is irrelevant. Beyond what he has ACTUALLY done, it's all just speculation. I could just as easily speculate that since Surfer has shown the ability to absorb just about every form of energy he's ever tried to absorb easily, then he should be able to absorb the Psionic energy that makes up Onslaught. But doing that would just be unfounded speculation. All we can go by is what they've actually shown to be able to do, and Onslaught hasn't shown the feats to take out this team.
well i guess that's true but how are you suppost to take a character at there best when they didn't show their best in anyway or even close. i think I said earlyer that I was speculating about the extent of his powers. So yeah i just don't think they can beat him 10 out of 10. maybe 4 or 5 out of 10
Originally posted by jasofisc
Sooooo Silver surfer is abstract level now?.... Just because he's beaten people more powerfull then onslaught doesn't mean he can beat onslaught on a kmc fight. also if thor could not contain onslaught by himself how is silver going to.
yeah them "fighting off onslaughts hold on them" is on panel however them doing that and having an effect is not.
How often do you see tp blast leave smoke? that's even more lutercris then her useing a tk blast
As for the power level thing i perfer to go by they average power showings not their highest. Also I think i gave my reasoning that if they are so durible and powerful they would not be able to fight on a planet (because it would be destoied even if they were holding back) surfer and stange are beats no doubt about it but they are still able to fight on a planet and strain to beat someone with out destoying the planet.
Surfer took a punch from she-hulk and it barely moved his head and she hurt her hand. but if the supernove thing is hold true for his duriblity then her punch should be able to destoy a planet and the force of her hand hitting his head should destroy the whole nation they were in. Their power levels just don't hold though or make any since. All writers should get together and decited on the max power character should have so morons don't get carried away. (btw havok destoying a mountain is total PIS if he's ever done that)
Originally posted by jasofisc
well i guess that's true but how are you suppost to take a character at there best when they didn't show their best in anyway or even close. i think I said earlyer that I was speculating about the extent of his powers. So yeah i just don't think they can beat him 10 out of 10. maybe 4 or 5 out of 10
With Dr Strange on the team its a 10/10.
Originally posted by Roldz
Did i say SS is abstract? His won the fight because of the how his powers work, bad story line but its cannon and can be used as a feat..
Thor is written poorly in that Arc, for goodness sake check out his respect thread and you'll see why.. Heck check SS/Strange..Here's a scenario for you man; 2 people fighting for 1 power source, do you think 1 of the 2 gets full access of the power source specially if there still fighting for it? common sense man..
your basing this in 1 panel even dough Moondragoon which you probably dont know much or read about do tk blast a blast she hasnt done ever on panel but has mostly done psionic blast...
They have great control over there own powers thats why SS can manipulate on a molecular level so is Strange..
Sorry, but your not making sense here man.. How would She-Hulk punch freakin destroys the nation because of Surfers durability???
You should'nt call people morons specially the way your basing all your argumentation on speculation while ours are actual feats..
Her punch would not destroy a nation that's my point. But if surfer can withstand a freakin supernova a punch from she hulk should not even move his head. If anybody understands exactly how powerfull a supernova is then they would know that if someone could withstand one nothing short of a moon destroying hit should even get their attention. the point of my entree was that cosmics are up and down in their durability to ridiculous levels. This is due to writers of comics not passing 8th grade physical science.
My point which i made very early on is that i was speculating on onslaughts powers because we really didn't see a good repersentation on them in the saga because of his plan for the heros. The only real feat i'm basing my argument on is that it took the avengers, x-men, ff, doctor doom and other to beat him ( and they were very hard pressed to do so)
That panel showed smoke a TP attack is not physical so there would be no smoke. Also another think i would bring up that it may have been the same type of attack but that doesn't mean that it was the same intensity.
your logic is flawed about nate and fraklen fighting over the power with onslaught. It's more like two prisoners fighting to get out. they had no access to there powers while in onslaught. their is nothing to suggest that they in anyway had any control they were trying to fight it but had no success.
I can't stand it when a top tier character is acctually shown to be beat by a non abstrac level character and every body crys PIS. Not every thor arc is he shown to use every single option available to him. Just because he doesn't god blast everyone (or is shown to) doesn't mean he's not trying. How does anybody know that he was fighing to the best of his ablity and onslaught just wasn't more powerfull. you know when thor fought strange and surfer I don't remember him ever god blasting them.
Originally posted by Starhawk
With Dr Strange on the team its a 10/10.
with prep yeah but not with out. The only ways I see strange wining it for this team is the banishment thing. i don't know if the binding thing will work since onslaught isn't a spiritual entity. also as I said before the rest sacrificing themselves to give onslaught a body would also work.
Originally posted by jasofisc
I'm still saying onslaugth takes this we didn't see one tenth of his potential in the saga. plus i don't think the defenders could take the x-men, FF, Avengers, Hulk, Doctor doom and a host of others.
Well aside from Hulk being on the defenders- they did take all of them in "The Order" storyline... just not all at once
-Tim