Originally posted by seaapple
Man, you are some Eddie Gordo, "Only the Strong" watching mf's. Is that your only frame of reference for capoeira? 😉There is show capoeira, contemporary sport capoeira, and then there is the real thing, which has also been used by street fighters. Study the history of capoeira angola. Capoeira angola is not a competition martial art, it is a cultural form. Probably a lot of people who practice contemporary sports commercialized capoeira are not well trained in the martial (or cultural) aspect of it. It has at least a 500 year history in Brazil and more than that in the African forms it was based on.
It is a very deceptive and trick martial art. In the history of Brazil it was recognized as a deadly martial art. Practitioners were skilled in the use of bladed weapons. Capoeiristas are very elusive. For real practitioners part of it is to appear open but to really be closed. People ignore the martial aspect of authentic capoeira because it has other dimensions besides just obvious pummeling.
Some of the naysayers should learn your history of the form before making blanket statements based on your friends' martial arts classes. Capoeiristas fought off the Portuguese for many years in the quilombos (colonies of runaway enslaved people and of Brazil. They were on the front lines in the War of the Triple Alliance. Their reputations as deadly street fighters is what's notorious, if you know to ask people who know.
I don't know why you quoted me. but i never said that Capoeira is useless. Besides I'm pretty much familliar with it's hystory.
There are multiple reasons for the handstand. It is an invitation for someone to come in think you are vulnerable for one. Capoeiristas were known for blades on the feet as well as the hands for two. Kicks can be done from that position. Also, there are cultural/spiritual reasons as well for some capoeiristas.
p.s.
Originally posted by Sam Z
I don't know why you quoted me. but i never said that Capoeira is useless. Besides I'm pretty much familliar with it's hystory.
I was responding to yours first just with some info -- since you said you weren't sure about it, then I decided to respond to someone else can cut and pasted my message. I wasn't really aiming my Eddie Gordo joke at you though. There is controversy in the history of capoeira, so I wonder which history you are familiar with. It's very political in some ways.
Originally posted by seaapple
I was responding to yours first just with some info -- since you said you weren't sure about it, then I decided to respond to someone else can cut and pasted my message. I wasn't really aiming my Eddie Gordo joke at you though. There is controversy in the history of capoeira, so I wonder which history you are familiar with. It's very political in some ways.
And one last thing. I DO like Eddie Gordo. 😒 😛
Originally posted by Sam Z
If he really didn't then he was just a bad fighter.
Saying that any thai boxer will beat any taekwondo fighter is incorrect.
As been said before it more depends on the fighter than his fighting style. My friend (TDK fighter) whiped the floor with four guys that tried to steel his car, though it doesn't mean that any trained tdk fighter can do that (I personally can't), neither it mean that any thai fighter could do that.
There isn't a single TDK master that doesn't know what to do in clinch or while ground-fighting.
I never said any boxer beats one I merely saying TKD is a terrable up close style. It really just for show not really much elses. I a good style only if combind with another style that involve grappling and yup close fighting.
Originally posted by capt it up
I never said any boxer beats one I merely saying TKD is a terrable up close style. It really just for show not really much elses. I a good style only if combind with another style that involve grappling and yup close fighting.
How is an old martial art designed especially for Korean army and used during a war against heavilly armoured warriors is just for show?🤨
Sorry Capt, but you are wrong here and I can judge about that going by my personal experience and claiming that it is ineffective in close combat is incorrect as well.
Originally posted by Sam Z
How is an old martial art designed especially for Korean army and used during a war against heavilly armoured warriors is just for show?🤨
Sorry Capt, but you are wrong here and I can judge about that going by my personal experience and claiming that it is ineffective in close combat is incorrect as well.
Originally posted by capt it up
really now? what up close fighting techinques does it teach? I mean from TKD. not just a certain master teaching some up close techniques he has learned from other fighting styles
Traditional TDK itself has technique for close-range combat, including self-degfense. So it's not certain masters that learnt it from some other style, but TDK itself.
Originally posted by Sam Z
Traditional TDK itself has technique for close-range combat, including self-degfense. So it's not certain masters that learnt it from some other style, but TDK itself.
Capoeira derives from African martial practices in the Angola region. One theory is the it came from a type of dance/fight/competition called the N'Golo dance.
The idea about low movements because of enslaved African wearing chains or of hiding a fight as a dance now seems to be a myth. That is because African cultural practices were outlawed in Brazil. So there is no point in hiding one outlawed thing as another. And it was well known that capoeiristas could fight, they were arrested, flogged, etc. for being seen practicing. Also, some try to make it seem as if there isn't a historical lineage of martial arts in Africa, when of course there are many. Capoeira did not of course exist exactly in Africa as it does in Brazil. But the martial and cultural roots have a long history.
A lot of African forms combine multiple elements into one, so the concept of play, fighting, dance, spirituality are fused in a form like capoeira.
A large part of the dance-like qualities of capoeira are designed for elusiveness and deception. The handstands also come from a belief of walking in two worlds. It is a connection to the ancestors.
The older form of capoeira looks a lot different though. Capoeira angola is more fluid and tricky and low to the ground. It is not like the contemporary capoeira you see with a lot of high kicks and flips. It's not "bouncy" like contemporary capoeira (regional). Capoeira regional was developed by Mestre Bimba to make a state sanctioned capoeira that appealed to the middle classes as well. Early capoeira regional was not so different from angola, but it has evolved into something more...standardized and with it's own aesthetic and popular appeal. It is more of a martial sport in a way.
Of course there are undoubtedly capoeira regional practitioners who are interested in culture and capoeira angola practitioners who are more commercially oriented. But I have tried to paint a general picture of a few issues here.
Actually, I was glad to see Eddie Gordo and usually played him in Tekken. The joke is just that for some people that is their entire view of capoeira. Gordo may not play traditional capoeira, but I like seeing it represented in a game nonetheless. And I just pressed down on the controller and he played more in a capoeira angola style 😉
Originally posted by Sam Z
Ok then. I heard that Capoeira used to be a martial art that was used long time ago in street fights in Brazilia and was pretty deadly, but in time learning martial arts became forbidden and Capoeira masters had to cover capoeira technique with more different moves so it'd look like dances so noone would be able to figure that it actually was a martial art. So it became a better-looking but still dangerous martial art. Not sure if it's correct but that's what I heard.And one last thing. I DO like Eddie Gordo. 😒 😛
Originally posted by capt it up
really what does it teach? My cousin a black belt in the style and has stated numerous times it is terriable for up close fighting. He study other styles as well and is current fighting at a dojo that teaches mix martial arts. He how ever states TDK is not a usefull up close fighting style and teach pritty much no up close defenses. I really would love to here a single techinque they teach for up close.
What TDK your brother studied? The problem is that in many places they only prepare students for participating in the tournaments that have dumb RULES instead of concentrating on fighting itself, making students only train according to these rules. (No low-kicks, throws etc). As for technique names, only kicks and punches have NAMES (like up chaigi, furio chaigi etc) self defense doesn't have names.
Originally posted by capt it up
really what does it teach? My cousin a black belt in the style and has stated numerous times it is terriable for up close fighting. He study other styles as well and is current fighting at a dojo that teaches mix martial arts. He how ever states TDK is not a usefull up close fighting style and teach pritty much no up close defenses. I really would love to here a single techinque they teach for up close.
Umm. Then you'd also have to say that kickboxing is a bad art in close situation which I don't personally agree with.
*Remembers the tournament held in 1963, 3 Karatekas from Japan vs 3 Thai Boxers from Thailand. Japan won 2-1* 🙂