Originally posted by FeceMan
Able to understand it.
One of the Ancient History lecturers I had at university is an expert in early Christian thought, and by extension the Bible - by expert I mean someone who has a doctoerate and publishes and the rest.
Now, he isn't religion. He is an Atheist, yet he certainly seems to understand it. Better even then some of the theological lecturers who have a faith stake in what they teach. I don't believe one has to be religious in order to understand a holy text.
After all - whether God inspired it or not it was written by men and intended for human consumption. And it is a text. Education is more important to understanding usually then religious faith.
Arguably the thing about history, literature and such - when it deals with a religion the person doing the study simply accepts it - because the texts he/she is using were written by people that believed it etc. Of course that doesn't mean they, the researcher/expert have to believe it to understand it. But they aren't going "hmmm talk of Ra, who doesn't exist, they are wrong" - but rather accepting, in a kind of microcosm, the existance of such things.
And then there are those experts/researchers who work to separate what happened from the religious things people thought happened (the ones who work on showing the divine things in the Bible didn't happen, or in the Koran or whatever.)
The interpretations that hold up to biblical inspection are the interpretations that are correct.
It is unfortunate then that in the near 2000 years the Bible has been around there is no cold, hard interpretation that is clearly right on Bible inspection. If there was there wouldn't be so much disagreement.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
How do you know whose intepretations truly hold up to biblical inspection ? You Christians tend to disagree a lot.... 😕
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Now, he isn't religion. He is an Atheist, yet he certainly seems to understand it.
Originally posted by FeceMan
He might understand the words, the history, but I do not believe he understands the divine behind it.
And what is the "divine behind it"? The words, it would seem, are what matter. As far as it goes as a road guide to life. I am yet to see evidence that the words of the Bible are somehow profoundly different if one believes a God inspired them as opposed to them simply being the product of men.
Really the only difference is how much liberty one takes. One understands the divine behind it and suddenly the book can do no wrong, one doesn't think there is any divine behind it and it is simply a book, subject to the same rules as any other.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And what is the "divine behind it"? The words, it would seem, are what matter. As far as it goes as a road guide to life. I am yet to see evidence that the words of the Bible are somehow profoundly different if one believes a God inspired them as opposed to them simply being the product of men.Really the only difference is how much liberty one takes. One understands the divine behind it and suddenly the book can do no wrong, one doesn't think there is any divine behind it and it is simply a book, subject to the same rules as any other.
Originally posted by FeceMan
I don't believe that he can fully understand the words, to read them and understand as one understands when one is guided by the Holy Spirit.
How come so many Christians can't agree then? No only the differences of opinion between Denominations/Sects, but within each?
Either the Holy Spirit is schizophrenic and isn't nearly a clear guide as people make out, or it is not nearly as as a potent guide as is made out -since I assume you won't say it is leading people wrong that means people aren't listening to it, or aren't hearing it or are being biased by their own ideas.
And you - being a Christian, I assume you would be guide by the Holy Spirit - do you understand the Bible correctly, even though your views undoubtably are different from other Christians who also believe they are guided?
Because once again I say - I have seen no evidence a nonbeliever reading the Bible is incapable of understanding it, or understanding it all.
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
How come so many Christians can't agree then? No only the differences of opinion between Denominations/Sects, but within each?
Either the Holy Spirit is schizophrenic
and isn't nearly a clear guide as people make out, or it is not nearly as as a potent guide as is made out -since I assume you won't say it is leading people wrong that means people aren't listening to it, or aren't hearing it or are being biased by their own ideas.
And you - being a Christian, I assume you would be guide by the Holy Spirit - do you understand the Bible correctly, even though your views undoubtably are different from other Christians who also believe they are guided?
Yes.
There are some areas, of course, where things are notably murky, such as with the Rapture and "end times." I cannot say whether or not they are correct, as John's writings in Revelation are both metaphorical and an attempt to describe things that cannot be adequately described with words.
Originally posted by FeceMan
How many of those sects aren't true to the Bible?
How many think they are? Out of the following groups which do you consider correct/Biblically true:
Mormons Y/N
Greek Orthodox Y/N
Roman Catholic Y/N
Church of England Y/N
Jehovah's Witness Y/N
Pentecostal Y/N
Presbyterian Y/N
Anglican Y/N
Methodists Y/N
Baptists Y/N
Brethren Y/N
Charismatic Y/N
Quakers Y/N
Christian Scientists Y/N
Messianic Judaism Y/N
Seventh Day Eventests Y/N
Which of course leaves out the massive variety under such umbrella headings, as well as all the others.
It's DID/MPD.
I prefer to think it is convenient.
I believe in spiritual warfare, you know. Considered making a thread on it, too.
Spiritual warfare? What, God setting Christian against Christian? Possible I am on the wrong track, but that sounds less like an all loving God and more like George Bluth Sr.
Do all my views hold up against biblical text?Yes.
Or do they hold up to your interpretations? One of the things I have seen in religion is it is remarkable how well peoples views, wildly clashing views, all manage to hold up to the Bible or Koran or whatever.
I think all of them have some of the truth, none of them have all. There is no church or denomination on earth that is totally correct. That is why church may be important, but the personal relationship with the Father and Son is far more important and why we must study the Bible ourselves, so that we can identify what is of God and what is not.
Originally posted by Nellinator
I think all of them have some of the truth, none of them have all. There is no church or denomination on earth that is totally correct. That is why church may be important, but the personal relationship with the Father and Son is far more important and why we must study the Bible ourselves, so that we can identify what is of God and what is not.
So... there is no Church with a capital "C"? Doesn't it say in the Bible that the Church is the Body of Christ?
Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church, Colossians 1:24
He is the head of the body, the church; Colossians 1:18
Sounds like you're reducing it down to a mere social institution 😉
Originally posted by Nellinator
I think all of them have some of the truth, none of them have all. There is no church or denomination on earth that is totally correct. That is why church may be important, but the personal relationship with the Father and Son is far more important and why we must study the Bible ourselves, so that we can identify what is of God and what is not.
Then that would suggest simply having the Holy Spirit is not the key to understanding the Bible, otherwise there would be a standardised view - rather it seems there are many.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
But Sweety...beleif and knowledge are not the same thing ❌If you know for SURE, absolutely 100% that you are correct, and that you factually have a relationship with this diety, then it's NOT FAITH...its KNOWLEDGE.
[b]Faith
is when you strongly beleive and hope in something that cannot be proven. If it's already proven to you, then it's no longer Faith.I don't mean to sound rude, but I was once 1000% convinced that God existed and that I was close with him. I was 14-15 when I beleived that. Now, I realize that was just psychosomatic wishful thinking. The power of the MIND is awesome.
Not to mention, that as convinced as you are that you are close to God, is the SAME CONVICTION that Islamic Terrorists have about their beleifs and thier missions.
Food for Thought.... [/B]
okay... lets put it this way.
i can't see God, so you can say that i can't be sure that he exist.
but i feel him...
some people don't really regard God (that He exists) as a fact. That's why its called faith.
and i found out this is the dictionary explanation of faith: belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
sure.. i believe its true that God exists, but some people doubt that its true. so, I say its Faith.
besides.. its what the bible says. its called faith. >.< 🙂
Originally posted by Bardock42
I was wondering, for all believers who are so sure that they are right. Did you consider (since you believe in the devil and stuff) that he might just make you feel that way...and believe that some of the words are Gods words? Also did you consider that, since we all are limited being (if you believe in God or not) that your feelings and "relationship" with God might jsut be a mental disorder? I mean, can you really? Really be 100% sure, it is God you feel?
100% sure.
ever considered that 'why do many people, years before you're even born, die for God, or Christianity?'
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Then that would suggest simply having the Holy Spirit is not the key to understanding the Bible, otherwise there would be a standardised view - rather it seems there are many.
Meh - I think that the Holy Spirit is but one key, to understanding the bible(in its entirety...well at least as much as God allows one to understand it(the bible))
Still - one has to educate/train themselves a bit too, just as they do with any other subjects.
Originally posted by JaehSkywalker
okay... lets put it this way.
i can't see God, so you can say that i can't be sure that he exist.
but i feel him...
some people don't really regard God (that He exists) as a fact. That's why its called faith.
and i found out this is the dictionary explanation of faith: belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof
sure.. i believe its true that God exists, but some people doubt that its true. so, I say its Faith.
besides.. its what the bible says. its called faith. >.< 🙂
I understand completely.
But Faith is not knowledge....and our emotions often decieve us... 😉
Originally posted by m. sade
So... there is no Church with a capital "C"? Doesn't it say in the Bible that the Church is the Body of Christ?Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions [B]for the sake of his body, that is, the church,
Colossians 1:24He is the head of the body, the church; Colossians 1:18
Sounds like you're reducing it down to a mere social institution 😉 [/B]
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Then that would suggest simply having the Holy Spirit is not the key to understanding the Bible, otherwise there would be a standardised view - rather it seems there are many.