Civil War Report

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
So... you say that being a vigilantee (which BTW Spider-man, Daredevil, etc. are) is the moral thing to do?

Oh, and one more thing. Just to let everybody know. I like playing Devil's Advocate. If most of the people here were FOR the SRA, I'd be posting against it. I do it just to show a fair and balaced discussion where everyone sees all the different point of view.

I respect that; it's good to have a devil's advocate out there, but it is one thing to argue for the furthering of the debate process, and another entirely just to pick the opposite viewpoint to seem more objective.

As for thinking vigilantism is a moral thing to do, no, I do not think it is right. That said, if you read my post in entirety, I made it clear that I think both sides have credit, ie: Tony's Lap/ Cap's Shield metaphor... I was tackling the issue based on its relation to current real-world issues, but if we throw that out the window, we still have men in tights battling bad men in tights, and, quite honestly, usually heroes such as Spiderman and Captain America are right in defeating power-hungry lunatics bent on world domination, but again, that's not what I was stressing.

Very good post! So... when did Franklin and Valeia die...?

franklin and valeria, as far as i know, aren't dead. i meant post-stamford, where a few hundred innocent children were killed.

when does #2 come out?

June... 14th? I think.

Wow, Spidey facing off against Iron Man!!!

"AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #535

Written by J. Michael Straczynski, pencils and cover by Ron Garney.

"The War at Home," part 4 of 6. Caught in the throes of the Civil War that's ripping apart the super hero community, Spider-Man contemplates a move that will mean new friends and new foes. In a conflict of this magnitude, three is no middle ground -- Peter Parker's move will cast him as either George Washington...or Benedict Arnold.

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 30."

In other news:

CIVIL WAR #4

Written by Mark Millar, pencils and cover by Steve McNiven, variant cover by Michael Turner.

A death! A funeral! A betrayal! And a team reborn as the war takes a deadly turn!

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 16.

CIVIL WAR: FRONT LINE #5 & #6

Written by Paul Jenkins, penciled by Ramon Bachs and Steve Lieber, cover by John Watson.

Embedded within the heart of the battle between super hero registrants and resistors you will learn the real story behind both sides of the Civil War! In any conflict there are those who want to keep the facts hidden, but on the Front Lines the truth will be told. In "The Accused," The New Warriors survivor goes on trial! Their life was spared from the Stamford Disaster. Will justice be so kind? Also featuring true tales of war in Civil War: Correspondence.

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 9 and Aug. 23.

CIVIL WAR: X-MEN #2

Written by David Hine, penciled by Yanick Paquette, cover by Juan Doe.

Bishop and the X-Men are on a collision course! Both are searching for the missing 198 and there can be only one victor. It's X-Man against X-Man! Meanwhile, the O*N*E tightens its grip, but will their power slip away in the process?

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 16.

CIVIL WAR: YOUNG AVENGERS & RUNAWAYS #2

Written by Zeb Wells, penciled by Stefano Caselli, cover by Jim Cheung.

In the cloud of Civil War the Runaways and Young Avengers find themselves at odds. Meanwhile, across the country, Iron Man puts a plan in motion that's designed to capture the last of Marvel's rogue heroes. Can the two young teams find common ground in time to save themselves?

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 30.

FANTASTIC FOUR #540

Written by J. Michael Straczynski, penciled by Mike McKone, cover by Adi Granov.

It had to happen! Amidst the tumult and tensions of Civil War, the Fantastic Four break up! Who will toe the line, who will join the resistance, and who will leave the battlefield altogether? And is this the end for Marvel's First Family?

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 23.

HEROES FOR HIRE #1

Written by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti, pencils and cover by Billy Tucci.

As CIVIL WAR rages through the Marvel Universe, an unlikely group of heroes have gathered together to hunt down and capture criminals who refuse to sign the Registration Act. In response to the overwhelming number of masked fugitives on the loose, Misty Knight and Colleen Wing use their bail bonds skills, underworld connections and government funding to lead an all-new Heroes for Hire into battle. Action, adventure, crime, beautiful women and Kung Fu chaos come together in this explosive new series. Featuring Black Cat, Shang Chi: Master of King Fu, Paladin, Misty Knight, Colleen Wing and the all-new Tarantula.

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 23.

THUNDERBOLTS #105

Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencils and cover by Tom Grummett.

The T-Bolts have taken down a slew of supervillains in order to amass a supervillain army -- but will they use this force to help the U.S. Government capture the renegade heroes... or to overthrow the U.S, Government? It all leads up to a nasty battle between Captain America and Zemo...but the outcome will shock you! Part 3 of 3.

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 9.

NEW AVENGERS #23

Written by Brian Michael Bendis, pencils and cover by Olivier Coipel.

The team behind last year's mega blockbuster House of M reunites for a startling important chapter in the Civil War, the history of the New Avengers and the life of this year's break-out star Spider-Woman. Straddling the worlds of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra as a double agent for Nick Fury isn't going to fly in the middle of a war, and Jessica is going to find this out the hard way. It's the end of the road for Jessica Drew, and where she ends up will shock you. An important lead-in book for the upcoming Spider-Woman ongoing debuting after Civil War.

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 23.

CABLE/DEADPOOL #31

Written by Fabian Nicieza, pencils by Staz Johnson, cover by Roberto Campus.

"For King and Country," part 2 of 3. Deadpool vs. the renegade heroes! Can the government's newest Superhuman Marshall buff his badge and kick some butt? And what's Cable up to? Well, with two countries to run, he wouldn't have any interest whatsoever in using this whole Superhuman Registration Act for his own advantage, would he...? No, not our Cable... that would just be so... insidious...

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 30.

MS. MARVEL #6

Written by Brian Reed, penciled by Roberto De La Torre, cover by David Mack.

Ms. Marvel enlists in the Civil War. With the Super Hero Registration Act in full effect, Carol Danvers joins forces with Simon "Wonder Man" Williams and Julia "Arachne" Carpenter to police and train heroes. But there is a traitor in their midst--someone who is undermining the registration movement and endangering everyone!

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 9.

WOLVERINE #45

Written by Marc Guggenheim, with art by Humberto Ramos.

"Vendetta," part 4 of 6. Wolverine is trying to find out the secret of the Stamford Disaster, but he'll have to go through Namor the Sub-Mariner to get it. Marvel's most popular mutant throws down with Marvel's first mutant. Guest-starring Iron Man, this chapter features Wolverine and Namor's undersea kingdom of Atlantis as you've never seen them before!

32 pages, $2.99. in stores on Aug. 23.

FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD SPIDER-MAN #11

Written by Peter David, pencils by Todd Nauck, cover by Mike Wieringo.

As the groundbreaking events of Civil War erupt across the Marvel U, the shockwaves are being felt everywhere! The consequences of Spider-Man's allegiances have culminated in the ultimate showdown... with Flash Thompson? Plus, the shocking return of Mysterio!

32 pages, $2.99. in stores on Aug. 2.

SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #29

Written by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa, pencils and cover by Angel Medina.

The Deadly Foes of Spider-Man " Part 1 of 3. After the extraordinary events of Civil War, the heroes and their families try to cope with the remarkable changes in the Marvel Universe. Now, one of Spider-Man's oldest and most insidious foes--the Chameleon--decides to make his move against the wall-crawler! His first step: gathering a new super-team of Spider-Man's deadliest foes and striking him where he is most vulnerable...

32 pages, $2.99, in stores on Aug. 16.

hmmm, alright, I'm going to weight in on a few things here

I think everyone has basically touched on the major philosophical ideologies behind government involvement, be it with superheroes or anything else.

to me, please correct if I'm wrong, pro side is: more accountable and basically the idea that if society is held by the rule of law that they can't just do whatever they want.

Con: As far as i have seen is basically that there are actions and motivations that heroes have that necessitates them to be both anonymous and in some ways above legal ramifications for their actions.

Before even commenting with my opinions, I want to set some precedence. Someone more versed in American legal traditions should elaborate, but given the federalist nature of the American government and constitution (meaning states have more individual powers than the federal government) a bill calling for a national registry is huge.

Lawyers and even doctors are registered at state levels, as are all non federal law enforcement agencies. The scope of the power being asserted with the SRA by the federal government therefore is something that MOST if not ALL states in the modern united states would be against. This is not to say they would be against state lead initiatives of the same nature.

I say this only to point out that, in the real non-super-powered world, this bill is already VERY intrusive onto constitutional rights, though not the ones that have already been discussed.

Being philosophically on the anarchist side of libertarian, to me this is obviously a huge intrusion of the federal government into the lives of citizens. But, philosophical ideologies don't necessarily answer questions.

The real issue that must be addressed when looking at something like this would be: Will making heroes register prevent something like the 500 kids dying from happening again?

Historically, I can't think of a time that government involvement into something made it work more efficiently. The best example that comes to mind was the gun registry in Canada that was only supposed to cost millions that ended up costing billions and is still not even operational.

Continuing that comparison (given that both registries are similar in motivation) the only people that registered their guns were the ones who were already using them properly. For the heroes, this will instantly turn any dissenters into criminals. Basically, spider-man and captain America become defacto super-villians.

Then, how will they ever implement a binding law over people with incredible powers. Authority and law is only effective so long as those in power have the might to enforce their will, even if it is only the threat of might (you don't break the law for fear of punishment <yes, very simplistic>😉. The power necessary to bring down those who descent from the registry will require tremendous manpower, not to mention the fiscal side of it.

The final thing i will bring up is what i will call the "hero/villain balance". For instance, say, spider-man wont reveal his identity. He now must avoid any type of confrontation, possibly even go into hiding. Other super powered individuals must now go find him. That leaves the armada of REAL villains, (not the new defacto ones like spidey) who will not register anyways, to completely run amok over people.

lol, anyways, sorry for the long post... hope it is coherent

Y'what?

inamilist

Just how does the SRA infringe on the rights of anyone. What, they have the right to put on a mask on go out on the streets dispensing justice?

If the SRA required all superpowered people to register themselves, then yes I'd agree it infringes on civil rights. But that's not the case. The SRA requires all superpowered people who decide to put on a mask and go out to fight crime to register themselves.

Picture this: I decide to go out and beaqt up bad guys. I grab a mask and a gun and start to patrol the streets. What right do I have to do this? It's not self protection, I'm out there looking for trouble. I'm disregarding the law and police force and creating my on militia.

As for individual states being against it, that's highlyt doubtful. Although many of these heroes operate in certain locations, a lot of them operate on a larger scale than one specific state. If they were registered only on the state level, when they went to another state to apprehend a bad guy, they couldn't. They'd have no authority to do so.

You asked the question: "Will making heroes register prevent something like the 500 kids dying from happening again?" Well if the heroes in the Stanford Incident had been registered, it likly would not have happened. Why? Because there would have been other people who would've told them how to better handle the situation. That they were out-gunned and the risk for collateral casualties was too high. As we saw, their major concern was doing something that would get them ratings.

A few months ago, the Young Avengers accidentally altered the timeline and nearly destroyed the Earth. They're a bunch of teenagers who decided they know enough about right and wrong to enforce the law. I won't even start on the Runaways.

"Historically, I can't think of a time that government involvement into something made it work more efficiently. The best example that comes to mind was the gun registry in Canada that was only supposed to cost millions that ended up costing billions and is still not even operational.

Continuing that comparison (given that both registries are similar in motivation) the only people that registered their guns were the ones who were already using them properly. For the heroes, this will instantly turn any dissenters into criminals. Basically, spider-man and captain America become defacto super-villians."

That's apples and oranges. It's one thing to have a gun, it's another to go out and activly look for people to help or hurt by using your gun.

"Then, how will they ever implement a binding law over people with incredible powers. Authority and law is only effective so long as those in power have the might to enforce their will, even if it is only the threat of might (you don't break the law for fear of punishment <yes, very simplistic> ). The power necessary to bring down those who descent from the registry will require tremendous manpower, not to mention the fiscal side of it."

Actually, you don't break the law, because it's the right thing to do. That's the difference between children and adults. Children are taught to do what they're suppose to because they fear punishment. Adults are taught to do what they're suppose to because it's the right thing to do.

And with Sentry, Iron Man, and a host of other backing up SHIELD; the government HAS the power to enforce the law.

"The final thing i will bring up is what i will call the "hero/villain balance". For instance, say, spider-man wont reveal his identity. He now must avoid any type of confrontation, possibly even go into hiding. Other super powered individuals must now go find him. That leaves the armada of REAL villains, (not the new defacto ones like spidey) who will not register anyways, to completely run amok over people."

Wrong. As long as Spidey isn't activly going out to fight crime, he won't be hunted. Heroes who want to fight can either register or retire. The heroes that want to fight w/o registering are being hipocrites. Deciding which laws they like to enforce, and which ones they'd prefer to ignore and pretend doesn't apply to them. They are saying to the world that that don't need to comply because they are above and beyond the law.

so i'm gonna be able to follow pretty much everything as long as i have read, house of m, the first severa issues of new avengers, and the illuminate one-shot, right?

god why are there so many tie-ins!?!?! no comic book fan has that kind of money!

✅

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
so i'm gonna be able to follow pretty much everything as long as i have read, house of m, the first severa issues of new avengers, and the illuminate one-shot, right?

god why are there so many tie-ins!?!?! no comic book fan has that kind of money!

I do 😮‍💨

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
inamilist

Just how does the SRA infringe on the rights of anyone. What, they have the right to put on a mask on go out on the streets dispensing justice?

the rights infringement is achually more complicated than that and in many ways does not even involve the heroes, it was more of setting my argument.

In the american constitution, states are given a large ammount of power, and less is given to the federal government. A federal regestry of this nature could theoretically infringe on the rights of states to govern atonomously.

I dont know a whole lot about the american right to privacy, so i didnt really hit on that, but im not even sure its an issue in this scenario. I dont think that the law is wrong because its unconstitutional, its wrong because it doesnt make logical sense given the normal happenings of the Marvel Universe

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
If the SRA required all superpowered people to register themselves, then yes I'd agree it infringes on civil rights. But that's not the case. The SRA requires all superpowered people who decide to put on a mask and go out to fight crime to register themselves.

compleatly, i agree with the rights issue, and i dont like how marvel is trying to push that side of this issue. There are plenty of good reasons for people to want the regestry, my argument is that in any situation government control of something will create unnecessary problems. I think this especially true for heros.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Picture this: I decide to go out and beaqt up bad guys. I grab a mask and a gun and start to patrol the streets. What right do I have to do this? It's not self protection, I'm out there looking for trouble. I'm disregarding the law and police force and creating my on militia.

correct. and, there already exist a plethora of laws that prevent that behaviour from occuring on a mass basis. Human nature as well im sure, as most of us would be unwilling to put ourselves in that kind of needless risk.

hell, for most of his career spider-man has had to avoid the cops just as much as he has had to avoid criminals.

We compleatly dont disagree that vigilantism leads to VERY tricky legal conundrums, but that isn't the crux of my argument. The fact that heroes are given anonimity and are somewhat above the law allows them to opperate properly. Given that in the marvel U, there is a neverending line of villians trying to ruin something, heroes need the ability to act in extra-legal ways without the accompanying legal responsability to deal with threats that there is no way police or army personale could deal with.

Think of it this way, how sucessful do you think the government would be at regulating the black market?

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
As for individual states being against it, that's highlyt doubtful. Although many of these heroes operate in certain locations, a lot of them operate on a larger scale than one specific state. If they were registered only on the state level, when they went to another state to apprehend a bad guy, they couldn't. They'd have no authority to do so.

As i said, its not that they would disagree with the SRA, its that these things are normally dealt with at the state level, and most states are very touchy about their rights.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
You asked the question: "Will making heroes register prevent something like the 500 kids dying from happening again?" Well if the heroes in the Stanford Incident [b]had been registered, it likly would not have happened. Why? Because there would have been other people who would've told them how to better handle the situation. That they were out-gunned and the risk for collateral casualties was too high. As we saw, their major concern was doing something that would get them ratings. [/B]

I dont see your logic. The New Warriors were a television show, their quest being for ratings. Unless this regestry just turns heroes into glorified cops they are still going to have free will.

The new warriors fighting 4 supervillians will always have generated ratings, the more powerful the villains the more ratings. Would shows like this not exist under the regestry? THAT would be an incrochment of free speech.

The problems that seem to exist with heroes dont even seem to be addressed by the regestry, it is just a simple way for the federal government to appear to be in control of a situation that they can't control.

What if a super powered person who isnt on the regestry goes nuts and does something horrible? There are so many flaws with the actual implmentation of the bill, not necessarily the intent.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
A few months ago, the Young Avengers accidentally altered the timeline and nearly destroyed the Earth. They're a bunch of [b]teenagers who decided they know enough about right and wrong to enforce the law. I won't even start on the Runaways. [/B]

ok

so why arent they being arrested?

Why would the government knowing their identity stop this?

If the regestry tells them how they can and can't use their powers they become unable to properly handle the threats that they alone are capable of dealing with.

There are many arguments being made, and i am not saying that teenagers are the best people to be out beating people up, but the regestry is not the solution. What if these young avengers and runaways wont regester and keep doing what they are doing? Suddenly you have teams of supervillian teenagers who HAVE to be dealt with in order to have the regestry be effective (no use in having an unenforced law)

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
That's apples and oranges. It's one thing to have a gun, it's another to go out and activly look for people to help or hurt by using your gun.

again, you miss my point

im showing a real world example of another regestry that would seemingly be easier to implement that failed miserably. That is my argument with this regestry.

The problems it creates are worse than the current situation.

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Actually, you don't break the law, because it's the right thing to do. That's the difference between children and adults. Children are taught to do what they're suppose to because they fear punishment. Adults are taught to do what they're suppose to because it's the right thing to do.

well, to begin with, since we are demeaning the opinions of eachother now, let me just say how nieve and immature/ignorant it is to associate legeslation with morality. Would you assume then that it was moral for the erradication of jews by the nazi regeme since it was legal?

not to mention you are approaching the issue of morality as black or white, trust me son, there is only grey. Nothing is either entirely right or wrong, even victimless actions, since wrong and right are based on our own interpretations of responsability to society.

about the law and authority thing, i would suggest looking up the Milgrim experiment and the Stanford university experiment to see how people respond to authority. I'll elaborate if you want, but this is already like 4 essays

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
And with Sentry, Iron Man, and a host of other backing up SHIELD; the government HAS the power to enforce the law.

ok, so you are saying that the federal government will have to use superheroes against eachother. Basically creating the same conflict scenarios they are attempting to avoid by pitting their most powerful citizens against eachother in a city full of people.

wow, what a good solution

Originally posted by BlaqChaos
Wrong. As long as Spidey isn't activly going out to fight crime, he won't be hunted. Heroes who want to fight can either register or retire. The heroes that want to fight w/o registering are being hipocrites. Deciding which laws they like to enforce, and which ones they'd prefer to ignore and pretend doesn't apply to them. They are saying to the world that that don't need to comply because they are above and beyond the law.

as i said above, morality and legality arent tied into the same vein.

Not every superhero has a punisher complex, they do what they do because they feel it is right, not because they feel it is legal.

Is that hippocritical, maybe. For the punisher, yes, because he feels that he is enforcing the law and not jsut helping people.

It is splitting hairs, but the motivation of most heroes has little to do with the law, in fact it is common for them to be disgusted with the pace and corruption of the legal system. They are trying to make the world a better place to live through the gifts that they have, they ARENT trying to arrest people that they see breaking the law.

Is what they do still illegal, yes.

Originally posted by Quick Freeze
so i'm gonna be able to follow pretty much everything as long as i have read, house of m, the first severa issues of new avengers, and the illuminate one-shot, right?

god why are there so many tie-ins!?!?! no comic book fan has that kind of money!

i just read the illuminate special. thats all you really need.

Originally posted by inamilist
the rights infringement is achually more complicated than that and in many ways does not even involve the heroes, it was more of setting my argument.

In the american constitution, states are given a large ammount of power, and less is given to the federal government. A federal regestry of this nature could theoretically infringe on the rights of states to govern atonomously.

I dont know a whole lot about the american right to privacy, so i didnt really hit on that, but im not even sure its an issue in this scenario. I dont think that the law is wrong because its unconstitutional, its wrong because it doesnt make logical sense given the normal happenings of the Marvel Universe

compleatly, i agree with the rights issue, and i dont like how marvel is trying to push that side of this issue. There are plenty of good reasons for people to want the regestry, my argument is that in any situation government control of something will create unnecessary problems. I think this especially true for heros.

correct. and, there already exist a plethora of laws that prevent that behaviour from occuring on a mass basis. Human nature as well im sure, as most of us would be unwilling to put ourselves in that kind of needless risk.

hell, for most of his career spider-man has had to avoid the cops just as much as he has had to avoid criminals.

We compleatly dont disagree that vigilantism leads to VERY tricky legal conundrums, but that isn't the crux of my argument. The fact that heroes are given anonimity and are somewhat above the law allows them to opperate properly. Given that in the marvel U, there is a neverending line of villians trying to ruin something, heroes need the ability to act in extra-legal ways without the accompanying legal responsability to deal with threats that there is no way police or army personale could deal with.

Think of it this way, how sucessful do you think the government would be at regulating the black market?

As i said, its not that they would disagree with the SRA, its that these things are normally dealt with at the state level, and most states are very touchy about their rights.

I dont see your logic. The New Warriors were a television show, their quest being for ratings. Unless this regestry just turns heroes into glorified cops they are still going to have free will.

The new warriors fighting 4 supervillians will always have generated ratings, the more powerful the villains the more ratings. Would shows like this not exist under the regestry? THAT would be an incrochment of free speech.

The problems that seem to exist with heroes dont even seem to be addressed by the regestry, it is just a simple way for the federal government to appear to be in control of a situation that they can't control.

What if a super powered person who isnt on the regestry goes nuts and does something horrible? There are so many flaws with the actual implmentation of the bill, not necessarily the intent.

ok

so why arent they being arrested?

Why would the government knowing their identity stop this?

If the regestry tells them how they can and can't use their powers they become unable to properly handle the threats that they alone are capable of dealing with.

There are many arguments being made, and i am not saying that teenagers are the best people to be out beating people up, but the regestry is not the solution. What if these young avengers and runaways wont regester and keep doing what they are doing? Suddenly you have teams of supervillian teenagers who HAVE to be dealt with in order to have the regestry be effective (no use in having an unenforced law)

again, you miss my point

im showing a real world example of another regestry that would seemingly be easier to implement that failed miserably. That is my argument with this regestry.

The problems it creates are worse than the current situation.

well, to begin with, since we are demeaning the opinions of eachother now, let me just say how nieve and immature/ignorant it is to associate legeslation with morality. Would you assume then that it was moral for the erradication of jews by the nazi regeme since it was legal?

not to mention you are approaching the issue of morality as black or white, trust me son, there is only grey. Nothing is either entirely right or wrong, even victimless actions, since wrong and right are based on our own interpretations of responsability to society.

about the law and authority thing, i would suggest looking up the Milgrim experiment and the Stanford university experiment to see how people respond to authority. I'll elaborate if you want, but this is already like 4 essays

ok, so you are saying that the federal government will have to use superheroes against eachother. Basically creating the same conflict scenarios they are attempting to avoid by pitting their most powerful citizens against eachother in a city full of people.

wow, what a good solution

as i said above, morality and legality arent tied into the same vein.

Not every superhero has a punisher complex, they do what they do because they feel it is right, not because they feel it is legal.

Is that hippocritical, maybe. For the punisher, yes, because he feels that he is enforcing the law and not jsut helping people.

It is splitting hairs, but the motivation of most heroes has little to do with the law, in fact it is common for them to be disgusted with the pace and corruption of the legal system. They are trying to make the world a better place to live through the gifts that they have, they ARENT trying to arrest people that they see breaking the law.

Is what they do still illegal, yes.

...learn to spell "registration" dammit, "regestry" isn't a word!

Registry is a word though... the meaning was clear, let's not act like we're in fifth grade here, unless you are.

Originally posted by Black Adam
i just read the illuminate special. thats all you really need.

mk cool

the idea that spider-man's problems would end, his moral conflict averted, if he simply stopped fighting crime is stupid. he wouldn't be breaking the law, and he wouldn't need to register, so whoop dee doo. there's two bonuses. but he also wouldn't be following his primary philosophy since day one of becoming spider-man. so, you know, there's that. which do you think he'd rather do; break the law, or repress his conscience for the rest of his life?

Do you think Logan will get his showdown with Nitro?