Civil War Report

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Captain America have always been a figthing dog. He fights to the bitter finish if necessary. For him to quit in battle is just...out of character. I find hard to believe that a man like Steve Rogers whom in the past led WWII soldiers agaisn't odds just quits. Why the hell did he started the whole anti-registration if he was worried there would be civilian casualties? He fought in WWII and we all know that human lives were lost. Him crying in the end is cheesy...poorly writen...and simply...not the ending this event should have been.

Tell me, who is going to trust Captain America in the future to lead an army to battle? They just know he is going to quit on them. Simply terrible. Cap is just not going to be the same ever again.

captain america's cared about civilian lives since the very beginning. he's cared about all lives since the beginning, and was a big-time contributor to the "avengers don't kill" line being thrown out in tense situations. he isn't telling them to surrender because he thinks people will get hurt; the area's already been cleared except for the servicemen clearing the civilians. he quits because a few servicemen who forgot that captain america was on the scene with them in 'the black issue' because they've been watching the news call him an ******* for a few months decide iron man's a better hero than he is. because anyone who was considered anti-registration was automatically roped into the stamford ordeal, and considered a bloodthirsty vigilante without a conscience. and somehow that affected him so much that he decided the civil rights of the arrested superheroes were less important than whether or not those superheroes were well-liked.

run-on sentences, i know.

Idk if anyone was aware of this, but characters can evolve, de-evolve, and change, I know a lot of people on these forums fear change, but it happens, and the writers aren't going to roll over for you guys.

Originally posted by capt it up
what side was thing on it seem as if he was simply there to protect the people

Ben was pretty much there to actually be a hero and do what heroes do, protect the innocent, which apparently everyone else forgot (although at least Tony said no civilian casualties 😬)

And is it just me or did Cap NOT realize that his action were causing death and destruction for nothing in the battle of yancy street?!?

I guess it just took normal people to get Cap to realize that being a hero isn't about the guys in the masks, its about those you are fighting for

And Luke Cage is an ass for not realizing this 😛

I actually have to disagree here. Like, seriously... I'm more than a sense of humor and a pretty face.

Who were the guys who were clinging to Cap? Firemen, policemen, guys who are REAL heroes. Who fight for the people, well, serve the people anyway. I think he realized that at this point in the war, he's just fighting to prove he's right, that heroes should be free to be heroes, reguardless of registration. What he realizes is that, the people don't care abou the guy behind the mask, who he is or whatnot, they care about their own personal safety. I think Cap realizes that at some point, he lost sight about what it really means to be a hero - doing what's best for the little guy. How is "Joe Normal" going to be affected by this? Truth, he probably won't be. Cap realizes the war is kind of pointless. BUT, the one thing people seem to be missing out on here is, they arrested him as Steve Rogers. Captain America is free to live on.

Of course, Punisher realized that, and that's why he'll probably be filling in for Cap until it all gets retconned and Steve gets back his shield.

So, in my opinion, they didn't ruin Captain America by making him surrender, they made him a little deeper by saying, "hey, Mr. Captain America survived, but Steve Rogers made a good choice by choosing not to be Captain America anymore." Make sense?

But my real question, seriously, has got to be, WHERE WAS SENTRY??!!! HE PROVED BE THE MOST POWERFUL USELESS character EEEEVER in this fight.

Brilliant ending, although another issue wouldn't have gone a miss. Id like to have seen some more of Millars traditional BAD ASS moments. With Ellis in charge of T.Bolts, Tony in charge of SHIELD, Thor returning, The Surfer and other comics, in good hands the future of Marvel looks very bright indeed. Like to see some more Eternal action. 🙂

I thought it was a great issue. People are complaining about it being anti-climactic, and while I can understand where they're coming from, I have to disagree. I can't see the ending being any different and still having the same impact.

Captain America realized that the he had gotten so entrenched in the war that he had lost sight of the fundamental idea of being a hero: protecting and serving innocent people. When the firemen, police officers, etc., tackled him, he finally truly understood what the public wanted, or needed. He had become the villain. Why continue fighting, when the people you are supposed to be fighting for don't want you standing up for them, and instead have already chosen the "good guys"?

Anyway, some of the finer points:

- Thing had a good return. Glad to see he was included.
- I appreciated the "Flyers! Grab a friend!" line.
- Finally! Spider-Man getting the credit he deserves. The first worthy feat since his upgrade.
- Sue kicked some ass, although her interaction with Reed became a bit played out.
- Loved the "Dig the outfit." And then, "Thanks." Can't wait for some black suit action.

Overall, I felt Namor could have been shown more, and Captain Marvel just appearing was terrible. I'm glad, however, to see that Sentry wasn't featured much (and I'm a fan of him!). Civil War has primarily been about the street-levellers, no reason to watch the Golden Guardian come in and wipe the floor with everyone.

The ending was good. The status quo has really changed in Marvel. Writers have got a chance to write some fresh new stories, so we'll see what happens...

I think this whole issue portrayed Captain America as an imbecile. He was heading a rogue opperation to save the rights of a group of people who were being labeled as potential threats to the country. Thusly, he's fighting against the safety of the country. Yes, he had his own reasons, but how could he NOT have realized that? He had to stage a full-on war between literal super powers to realize that people feared him?

To me the end of the arc was like:

Cap: Oh.... sh!t. Guys, stop fighting.
Anonymous super-hero: Why?
Cap: Well... this should be kind of embarassing... but its occured to me that people might not like us having a war in the middle of their street just so that we dont have to get SHIELD training... damnit.

Yeah, he's the real brilliant tactician there.

Overall, the issue was good. The ending, however, seemed to be a bit of a cop-out. They couldn't have either side win, so rather they would have Captain America realize the obvious, surrender because of it, and everybody go home with a black eye and a band-aid on their knee.

Also, it seems to me that the whole surrendering thing really highlighted the difference between 616 Captain America and Ultimate Captain America.

[QUOTE=8430903]Originally posted by Spunks
I think this whole issue portrayed Captain America as an imbecile. [/QUOTE

So ? No one perfect. ?Humanising comic book characters is a good thing !

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The problem is that some of you are failing to see how Marvel just completely wrecked a great character.

Captain America have always been a figthing dog. He fights to the bitter finish if necessary. For him to quit in battle is just...out of character. I find hard to believe that a man like Steve Rogers whom in the past led WWII soldiers agaisn't odds just quits. Why the hell did he started the whole anti-registration if he was worried there would be civilian casualties? He fought in WWII and we all know that human lives were lost. Him crying in the end is cheesy...poorly writen...and simply...not the ending this event should have been.

Tell me, who is going to trust Captain America in the future to lead an army to battle? They just know he is going to quit on them. Simply terrible. Cap is just not going to be the same ever again.

I was hoping for something like this.

Cap: "I *sniff* I quit...*sob*"

Namor looks at Cap with WTF look on his face and raises his hand...

*SLAP!*

Cap: "Argh!"

Namor: "Rogers, what the f*ck?! I can't be loooking at the eyes of the same man who killed hundreds of enemy soldiers during the WWII! We were winning for Neptune's sake! The Avengers have obviously pussified you for some reason. Honestly man, get ahold of yourself!"

*WHACK!*

Cap: "You...you are right. I can't give up on the cause now. The people who attacked me are obviously misguided by propaganda. I mean, they made a Thor clone that is only few weeks old and had him kill Bill! That's like forcing a newborn to kill a man! And what about that prison then!? We are going to win this war, but to show that WE are the good guys, we are going to do it without shedding..."

*Namor snaps the neck of Iron Man*

Cap "...blood."

Namor: "Well...technically, he isn't bleeding. I snapped his pathetic surface-man neck with surgical precision. I have had harder time breaking twigs, really. Alright then guys, lets take over Manhattan! Again!"

Atlantean Soldiers: "Steal! Break! Kill!"

Cap: "...what made me team up with you in WWII in the first place?"

Namor: "Oh, you haven't seen nothing, wait 'till Hulk gets back. Tony is going to be happy that I snapped his laughably thin air-breathing neck. "

And then the Marvel Earth is taken over by Namor and Hulk.

Originally posted by Black Adam
not rly

Yes Really

Random Superheroes , battling each other , destroying their surroundings and almost getting casualties. Sound Familiar ?

Yup , it's the beginning to Kingdom Come.

Originally posted by Black Adam
Blame whedon he came up with the ending.

Though this has me wondering what millar would have done...

Heres a quick promo of Millars 'ending'

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
I was hoping for something like this.

Cap: "I *sniff* I quit...*sob*"

Namor looks at Cap with WTF look on his face and raises his hand...

*SLAP!*

Cap: "Argh!"

Namor: "Rogers, what the f*ck?! I can't be loooking at the eyes of the same man who killed hundreds of enemy soldiers during the WWII! We were winning for Neptune's sake! The Avengers have obviously pussified you for some reason. Honestly man, get ahold of yourself!"

*WHACK!*

Cap: "You...you are right. I can't give up on the cause now. The people who attacked me are obviously misguided by propaganda. I mean, they made a Thor clone that is only few weeks old and had him kill Bill! That's like forcing a newborn to kill a man! And what about that prison then!? We are going to win this war, but to show that WE are the good guys, we are going to do it without shedding..."

*Namor snaps the neck of Iron Man*

Cap "...blood."

Namor: "Well...technically, he isn't bleeding. I snapped his pathetic surface-man neck with surgical precision. I have had harder time breaking twigs, really. Alright then guys, lets take over Manhattan! Again!"

Atlantean Soldiers: "Steal! Break! Kill!"

Cap: "...what made me team up with you in WWII in the first place?"

Namor: "Oh, you haven't seen nothing, wait 'till Hulk gets back. Tony is going to be happy that I snapped his laughably thin air-breathing neck. "

And then the Marvel Earth is taken over by Namor and Hulk.

lol...

I'm just picturing the ghost of Jack Kirby haunting Mark Millar.

"bOoooOOOOOhhhhhh....you made Captain America surrender...booOOohhh"

Speaking of which I was thinking...people keep saying Capt. had to quit....but in military strategy and tactics...a retreat would have worked better. A soldier can fight another day. Why quit? I missed those days with Capt. and Bucky in the frontlines.

Cap surrendering cements him as a pussy.
I had high hopes for that character, and his resolve and tactics in this series.
I knew IM was gonna win, but why'd Cap go like a punk?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
lol...

I'm just picturing the ghost of Jack Kirby haunting Mark Millar.

"bOoooOOOOOhhhhhh....you made Captain America surrender...booOOohhh"

Speaking of which I was thinking...people keep saying Capt. had to quit....but in military strategy and tactics...a retreat would have worked better. A soldier can fight another day. Why quit? I missed those days with Capt. and Bucky in the frontlines.

Well if he retreated then what? He didn't quit cause he was losing (frankly his side was winning). He quit cause he realized that he had lost sight of what he was fighting for. In the end he realized that he didn't care so much about the people as he did about winning the fight. If he had retreated all we would have had was a disheartened Captain America crying while on the run. That would have been no fun.

Wow, so many of you guys wouldn't recognise a great ending if it slapped you across the face with a wet haddock. I haven't come online since before yesterday for fear of seeing spoilers (Civil war 7 came out today in the UK) and I am shocked at how many didn't like it.

I mean seriously how can you criticise Cap's ending? Him buckling doesn't make him a worse character, it was a great moment of realisation and character development. In casualties of war, Iron-man mentioned how when things get hard Cap always just digs in and carries on anyway. Newsflash folks!!! If you read the issue instead of moaning you would notice that the Anti-reg's won the last battle but Cap realised that it was pointless as the cost was too high.

And yeah I agree with Marvell's return. it was unnecessary and the editors will regret it in like 6 months down the line.

However that was more than made up for with a great scene with namor (I was convinced that he would help out until ish 6 when it appeared contrary).

My only criticism was that we didn't see much sentry or Thing ownage, but that was more than made up for with Thing's actual involvement at the end and Spidey and Cap owning everyone and their mothers, plus it was understandable that there wasn't too many feats from the others as this had to be a issue to end it and space was limited for the sake of the plot. ✅

Overall a great issue IMO and a great end to a great storyline. I cannot wait to see where Marvel takes us now in a world where there is virtually no such thing as a secret I.D. The face of the MU has definitely changed ✅

1. I hope Iron man enjoys his peace while it lasts, cuz there's still a not so little green problem, and he's not gonna care what gets smashes.

2. Only thing i don't like about the ending is that cap kind of leaves namor and BP out to dry. they risked war with the U.S. for him and he quits on them? This begs the queastion. How come BP is on the fantastic 4...?

3. Iron man did all of this for that one lady? Damn! talk about being whipped.

p.s. where the heck is thor? and who the heck is ronin in the new avengers? any thoughts?

Originally posted by willRules
Wow, so many of you guys wouldn't recognise a great ending if it slapped you across the face with a wet haddock. I haven't come online since before yesterday for fear of seeing spoilers (Civil war 7 came out today in the UK) and I am shocked at how many didn't like it.

I mean seriously how can you criticise Cap's ending? Him buckling doesn't make him a worse character, it was a great moment of realisation and character development. In casualties of war, Iron-man mentioned how when things get hard Cap always just digs in and carries on anyway. Newsflash folks!!! If you read the issue instead of moaning you would notice that the Anti-reg's won the last battle but Cap realised that it was pointless as the cost was too high.

And yeah I agree with Marvell's return. it was unnecessary and the editors will regret it in like 6 months down the line.

However that was more than made up for with a great scene with namor (I was convinced that he would help out until ish 6 when it appeared contrary).

My only criticism was that we didn't see much sentry or Thing ownage, but that was more than made up for with Thing's actual involvement at the end and Spidey and Cap owning everyone and their mothers, plus it was understandable that there wasn't too many feats from the others as this had to be a issue to end it and space was limited for the sake of the plot. ✅

Overall a great issue IMO and a great end to a great storyline. I cannot wait to see where Marvel takes us now in a world where there is virtually no such thing as a secret I.D. The face of the MU has definitely changed ✅

You left out the greatest owned moment in the series, Hercules vs Clor. How could you?

you know WHAT? i say

Spoiler:
aunt may doesn't die

i think that he/she'll be in the hospital for a few *insert either issues, or months, or whatever* and then be fine....

and i bet Fallen Son will be about the death of

Spoiler:
Captain America, no, not the man, but the idea

not too sure about the last thing, but it's my guess

Originally posted by NiñoAraña
you know WHAT? i say

Spoiler:
aunt may doesn't die

i think that he/she'll be in the hospital for a few *insert either issues, or months, or whatever* and then be fine....

and i bet Fallen Son will be about the death of

Spoiler:
Captain America, no, not the man, but the idea

not too sure about the last thing, but it's my guess

I agree on both, Nino.

I wont believe

Spoiler:
shes dead

Spoiler:
a grave

...

And then I'll just count the days till

Spoiler:
the editors bring her back

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I agree on both, Nino.

I wont believe

Spoiler:
shes dead

until I see

Spoiler:
a grave

! 😒

...

And then I'll just count the days till the editors bring her back. 😊

Originally posted by "V"
You left out the greatest owned moment in the series, Hercules vs Clor. How could you?

that was great ✅ When I first read the issue I was trying to work out which pieces made up which parts of his head, then I realised His head didn't so much shatter as turn to a mush 😆

Edit : After reading CW #7 I cannot wait for Cap #25. The series has been awesome so far and I have high hopes for that issue ✅