Darth Vader(TESB) vs Count Dooku(ROTS)

Originally posted by Rampant ox
No, you make it sound like Dooku purposefully makes his opponent tire, and once he has done so moves in for the kill. The Count both attacks and defends throughout the duel, and the opponent tiring is just a bonus that comes with the form. However, because his opponents tire, it can help dramatically in a fight.

Fair enough, but once vader strikes he is going to have to block right? And once he blocks he is going to feel the sheer power of vaders form am i correct? What if i told you that according to RODV vaders custamised lightsaber form is unpredictable? Where on the other hand vader has fought dooku twice and knows his style? While dooku has never seen vaders lightsaber form before.

Just to let you know vaders djem so is built up with alot of other lightsaber forms.

Dooku isnt going to block Vaders attacks head on. Makashi parries oncoming attacks, thus greatly reducing the kinetic energy absorbed. So once Dooku parries Vaders strike, he should be able to hit Vader before he can mount an effetive defence. I dont doubt that Vaders strong blows will rattle Dooku, but not to the point of which you are trying to imply - and certainly not like he did in ROTS.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku isnt going to block Vaders attacks head on. Makashi parries oncoming attacks, thus greatly reducing the kinetic energy absorbed. So once Dooku parries Vaders strike, he should be able to hit Vader before he can mount an effetive defence. I dont doubt that Vaders strong blows will rattle Dooku, but not to the point of which you are trying to imply - and certainly not like he did in ROTS.

This quote proves how effective djem so is against makashi

Djem So is best represented by Anakin Skywalker in his second battle with Count Dooku toward the end of the Clone Wars. During the duel, Count Dooku is surprised and shocked when he realizes that Anakin is now a Djem So practitioner. During the battle Anakin attacks Dooku, using his entire body including his arms, shoulders, legs and forward momentum to overwhelm Dooku with brute strength. In fact, when he blocks a blow from Skywalker the sheer kinetic power in Skywalker's blow shoved Dooku back, making him stumble so that he would not fall completely to the ground

And isnt vaders mastery of djem so above anakin combined with other forms? i think so

His armour may be able to block one or two strikes. But I think you underestimate the strength of Makashi. Sure, it is one of the weakest forms in terms of kinetic energy, but Dooku was still able to chop of Anakins arm with ease in AOTC. I didnt see Yoda pressing the physical advantage in the saber lock in AOTC and the combined strength of Anakin and Kenobi couldnt over come Makashi in ROTS (I refer to the saber lock where Dooku blocks them both with one hand). Dooku's speed is going to grant him enough hits on Vader to pierce his armour, whether it be on the first hit or 5th hit.

EDIT: That quote refers to Anakin in ROTS. In that battle Skywalker had a great deal of speed to back himslef up, therefore was able to press his advantage. He wont have that luxury anymore seeing his suit greatly hinders mobility.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Or maybe just maybe your a retard who can't interpret things right the, quote is:

And maybe, just maybe, you're a retard who doesn't quite know how commas work, LOL!

"I was looking for a kind of sword fighting that was reminiscent of what was in the movies that we had already done, but a more energized version of it because we've actually never seen real jedis at work, we've only seen old men and crippled half droid half men and young boys that have learned from these people"

"crippled half droid half men"

Who in the hell does that imply that he was slow? Its implies and says what he is, a crippled half man - half machine, something that has been reiterated for the past 20 years, nothing more nothing less.

He labels Vader a 'crippled...' in direct respect to speed; just as he says that he wanted the PT fightscenes to be more energized because we've never seen real jedi before. You're a moron if you don't get this, there's only one way to interpret that, Vader's a slow piece of crap, and his fanboys are getting lamer and lamer.

The actual fighting part of the quote is simply him commenting on how as he put we've never seen "REAL" Jedi fighting, we see Obi Wan an old man, Luke a boy and Vader a Sith.

He says it in direct respect to speed, so sorry, but you fail.

THe "energized" comment really pertains to ANH, since ESB and ROTJ were 'fast" duels,

1. Don't even try and dictate what Lucas was referring to when he said that. He quite simply says that he wants the duels to be more 'energized' because we've never seen real jedi at work. Keyword = 'NEVER'! Not in ANH, and not in ESB or RotJ. Deal with it.

2. The ESB and RotJ duels were not fast, don't be ridiculous.

and the point that Im bringing across is: yeah we've never seen real Jedi at work because we've never actually seen Vader TRY in the movies.

He tried in ANH, don't be ridiculous.

Vader was very force full with his strokes? When is he not, even when he is toying with foes he has you know that involuntary cyborg strength that lends him tremendous power. He is aggressive? You could tell that how? By the look in his eyes? By the strain on his face? 🙄 He could have just as easily been smiling and giving a quiet yawn to himself under his mask.

Provide a reason why he wouldn't have tried his hardest.

Obviously the POINT flew over your head (as usual) the point was that Vader NEVER took his duels in the OT to a serious degree that he had to truly exert himself in a life or death duel like he did with Maul. The skill of Luke is regardless, reading comprehension...

You do realise that you're not addressing my actual point Mr Strawman. You see, the problem here is that you believe that Vader must have been holding back in ANH because he displays more skill in ESB and RotJ. What you don't seem to understand is that it is easier to display more skill against a lesser opponent than it is against a stronger one.

Um what the f*ck are you talking about? Its pretty clear you've never been in an actual fight or even a play fight, as said before, if me and my friends are wrestling around, Im not gonna take him down mount him and start raining blows down on his face tyring to kill him as I would do someone actually trying to kill me. In turn, I become less skilled since Im not fighting to the fullest of my ability.

Hell, have you never wrestled around with a younger sibling and "let" them take you down, is that nor holding back, is that not voluntarily becoming less skilled? But again what can I expect your an idiot and you have no clue what your talking about.

To compare wrestling to swordfighting is ridiculous, it's a bad analogy, and by rules of debate, I don't even need to reply to this. But I'm a nice guy, so I will. Wrestling is much more physical, it's direct contact, mostly consisting of grapples. There's really not much more to wrestling than simply overpowering your opponent, it's not like there is a solid offence and defence to the sport. Swordfighting is much different

Now the fact that Vader was refraining from killing his son wouldn't make him fight or move any slower, that's ridiculous, he would fight as skilled as he can, just not go in for the kill. It's really not that hard to grasp, quit being foolish.

Admittedly I exaggerated, but really when the body count was described as "scores of bodies" and they where entrenched, with bow casters and blasters, shooting at Vader, what do you think happened. Its by far NO stretch of logic.

Whatever, the fact is, they were wookies, they weren't force sensitives.

Again, you have missed the POINT (you do this alot) the point was they were entrenched, and shooting and Vader singlehandedly up rooted them deflected every shot and decapitated them. SAnd your trying to say he's slow? Thats completely ridicules, if he was slow he'd have been raped when he jumped into the fray.

I didn't miss any point, I'm just seeing the feat for what it is. Now if that's truly what you believe, you have to prove that speed is required to pull something like that off.

Point? Their actual skill is regardless its the narrators comments on Vaders speed that are the point. And FYI Roan was no random Jedi, he was so skilled he was given an opportunity to be on the council and was noted for his bladework, but again thats regardless.

All that sis aid is h's faster and more agile than he was before, that does not equate to fast and agile, reading comprehension much?

No, it contradict your idiotic baseless assumption.

Sure thing! You do realise that the PotJ video isn't the only source for Lucas claiming that Vader is slow, just look at pretty much every interview he's done, it's a well known fact among fans that GL considers Vader slow, just ask Ushgurak.

The fact that he was able to put Vader in a situation where he was forced to damn near kill himself to kill Maul, speaks VOLUMES for his power. If that wasn't the TPM Maul he was sure as hell stronger then him.

This argument is logically incorrect, I'll explain why.
You're claiming that this bit of evidence speaks highly for Vader because he defeated Maul. Then, when asked to prove that this Maul was comparable in power to how he was in TPM, your proof is because he did so well against Vader.
^ Seeing the faulty logic?
The premise for your argument is dependant on the argument being solely correct without the premise. In short, your argument has no meaning.

Something you need to understand rtard, is that YOU =/= LUCAS, YOUR assumption =/= Lucas's words. So enough of trying to take his words out of context and trying to spread mis information as fact. Your wrong, Im right plain and simple. So quit trying, you can't win, especially against me.

Are the italics really necessary? I could understand if you were Advent, or Lightsnake, or Gideon, but you? Please, stick to the Revan arguments, the whole concept of swordfighting seems to be too much for you.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
His armour may be able to block one or two strikes. But I think you underestimate the strength of Makashi. Sure, it is one of the weakest forms in terms of kinetic energy, but Dooku was still able to chop of Anakins arm with ease in AOTC. I didnt see Yoda pressing the physical advantage in the saber lock in AOTC and the combined strength of Anakin and Kenobi couldnt over come Makashi in ROTS (I refer to the saber lock where Dooku blocks them both with one hand). Dooku's speed is going to grant him enough hits on Vader to pierce his armour, whether it be on the first hit or 5th hit.

EDIT: That quote refers to Anakin in ROTS. In that battle Skywalker had a great deal of speed to back himslef up, therefore was able to press his advantage. He wont have that luxury anymore seeing his suit greatly hinders mobility.

And you are saying vader is slow which he isnt? When did we see vader actually fightning a real jedi in the movies? None at all, Its the EU where he demonstrated his incredible skills with the lightsaber, and it doesnt contradict G-canon thus it is declared C-canon, Vader has been proven fast. Again if he sucks that bad, how was he able to wtf pwn 20 wookies and be able to parry the attacks of 3 jedi swordsman?

It was a taunt. Nothing more, nothing less. You're looking too far into it, and it's out of fanboyism.

Again, you are wrong. And again, you use an Ad Hominem attack on me. And the Ad Hominem doesn't even make sense. My username is General Kenobi, shouldn't it be then that I should say ANH Obi-Wan > Vader by fanboyism. No, you discredit yourself again.

You've already proven that you suck at interpreting swordfighting, your opinion on the matter means jack. And hold up, you're basing your argument off of pictures of the duel? Go figures.

Number one, tell me how I suck at interpreting swordfighting? Two, it's not my opinion, it's fact. And yes, I am basing part of my argument by watching the movies.

Don't even try and act as if you are in a position to explain swordfighting to me, because you are not.

Well since you're clearly unable to understand the technicalities of the duel, I felt it was my duty to explain some basic concepts of fighting through your heavily thick skull.

Clearly, you're not able to understand that it's easier to display more skill against a lesser opponent than it is a stronger one. Again, you're ignorance is astounding.

Maybe so, but if your opponent is not trying and not putting the effort to show more skill, then it clearly shows that the person is going easy on you. Vader wasn't even going all out on Luke. When Luke hit him in the arm, it took Vader seconds to finish off Skywalker.

Terrible analogy. The fact that you'd even compare wrestling (btw, is that naked wrestling, gladiator style?) to swordfighting is hilarious. And your Dooku analogy is plain wrong too, as he was never holding back against Obi-Wan. Here's a proper analogy, let's say you get into a fight with someone, but you don't want to hurt them. It doesn't mean you're going to be fighting slower, blocking slower, making yourself less skilled etc. You would still fight at your best, you just wouldn't deliver any powerful blows that would hurt the guy. It's simple to understand Kenobi, how you don't get it is ludicrous.

Very funny man, naked wrestling? LOL! AC has argued about the wrestling part very well, so I'll leave at that.

And your analogy is what people consider holding back. Vader was obviously fighting slower, blocking slower, making himself look lesser than he was. That's holding back. If Vader did went for the kill and all out, then he would finished off Luke in a quarter of a time he took against him in ESB.

All I said was that Ad Hominem doesn't make you any lesser a debater, so pointing it out in a debate just makes you look like a girl. But please Prodigal, don't pretend that you even properly understand these logical fallacies. I remember the days when you used to call them 'illogical fallacies', LOL!

A logical fallacy does not make a lesser debater, but it ruins the credibility of the argument you are trying to make. By pointing out a logical fallacy in your opponent's debate, they are unable to continue with their line of argument, because the entire thing is a fallacy. And please, even now you are using Ad Hominem. Ever heard of a word called "learning" Planet? Maybe it's something you should add to your limited dictionary inside the feeble mind of yours. I learned fallacies from one of my classes. And about the "illogical fallacies", I have only mentioned that word in one thread for a couple of posts. I never even pointed out fallacies. But now that I do, I can easily ruin my opponent's arguments. Quite helpful!

This feat has been blown way out of proportion. The only decent jedi there was Tsui Choi, and Vader actually needed the help of his clone troopers at the end to kill him, as well as two other jedi. One of the jedi also actually turned to the darkside and killed one of the other jedi, so Vader's only actually responsible for the death of 4 of them; and they mostly just ran at him in an uncontrolled frenzy without protecting themselves. He also had to use the force for some of his kills, so this feat really doesn't speak much for his dueling skills, not as much as people like to say anyway. And he barely escaped with his life, he struggled badly with a task that really wasn't that hard.

I know what happened in that fight. The fact was Vader had very limited experience in that suit. Emphasis on "very limited experience". By TESB, Vader has twenty years of Jedi hunting and mastery within the suit. Think about it? He was able to take on 8 Jedi with a monthes experience Think about how powerful he is unleased with 20 years of experience.

His suit really didn't give that much room for improvement, technically he couldn't improve physically one bit with all his limbs being mechanical.

Umm, yes it did, Wookiepedia and Lucas both said that "As Darth Vader, Anakin was believed to have had roughly eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor". His potential to be twice as powerful as Sidious was gone, but he still became 80% of his master.

Under the conditions that Vader beat those 8 jedi, so would have Maul, and he would have done it with more grace, and without getting his hand cut off.

Really, but that's TPM Maul with years of experience. That was Purge Vader with a month of experienece. See the difference?

1. It hasn't been proven.
2. I've already made it clear that I'm not arguing this.
3. You didn't do shit.

1. Yes it has, but certain individuals cannot accept this.
2. Well then, don't tempt me to argue back.
3. Yes I did for your information. I remember even in one thread where you said "Ani got lucky" and then I gave a brief summary paragraph proving why you are wrong. I clearly remember after posting that paragraph, that line of debate wasn't responded in your next post. LOL!

The problem here is, you don't understand that the 80% was referring to force potential. In terms of dueling ability, he was likely about 5% of Sidious, or something like that.

Yep he was 5% of Sidious even though he killed dozens of Jedi Knights, all who are much stronger than that (including if I remember, Clone Maul, 8 Jedi on Kessel, Dark Woman, Roan Shryne, etc).

No, it's his potential.

"Sigh" A leopard can never change its spots.

That's great, he still sucks.

Ahh, anti-fanboyism at its finest.

it's a well known fact among fans that GL considers Vader slow, just ask Ushgurak

Just a random fact, it's Ushgarak, not Ushgurak.

And maybe, just maybe, you're a retard who doesn't quite know how commas work, LOL!

I'm getting grammar lessons from a guy who uses "and" at the beginning of a sentence and thinks adding LOL! makes him right. If you don't have perfect grammar, which you don't, do not critique others.

He labels Vader a 'crippled...' in direct respect to speed; just as he says that he wanted the PT fightscenes to be more energized because we've never seen real jedi before. You're a moron if you don't get this, there's only one way to interpret that, Vader's a slow piece of crap, and his fanboys are getting lamer and lamer.

No, there's not. This is your ridicules assumption. I've already broken the comment down, Vader was a crippled half man half droid. Fact. Did that deny him speed? No. Really being more energized compared to what? Luke v Vader? Oh course all of the PT duels are gonna be better since, they feature an experienced Jedi vs Jedi or Sith not, a boy vs a Sith Lord toying with him.

Use common sense, I know its a stretch for you...If were going by your ingenious logic then all those included in that little comment: Old Ben, Vader, and LUKE are in fact slow pieces of shit as you so eloquently put it. And that simply is not true:

Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader ROTJ- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqS5x-PiHpw&NR

Now this means one of two things, Lucas was simply dissing his OT characters for what they were, an old man, a half machine, a boy and he wanted fights between Jedi who were fully trained and no one was holding back. Or it could mean that your right and Lucas has contradicted himself once again and because Obi Wan and Anakin vs Dooku AOTC don't move much faster than the ROTJ duel, Mace Windu vs Sidious is actually SLOWER then that and Anakin and Obi Wan v Dooku pt1 ROTS is SLOWER then that. So which is it? I'm going to go with mine.

He says it in direct respect to speed, so sorry, but you fail.

Sorry, I've broken this now TWO times.

1. Don't even try and dictate what Lucas was referring to when he said that. He quite simply says that he wants the duels to be more 'energized' because we've never seen real jedi at work. Keyword = 'NEVER'! Not in ANH, and not in ESB or RotJ. Deal with it.

Did I dispute that? We have NEVER seen real Jedi at work because we've seen an old man, a Sith Lord and a Half trained kid. That was the point.

2. The ESB and RotJ duels were not fast, don't be ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqS5x-PiHpw&NR

http://www.youfail.org/

Provide a reason why he wouldn't have tried his hardest.

Ah lets see he had lost his burning desire to "RAWR wheres Obi Wan Ima kill hims!!!!" after 20 years or so, he doesn't even speak to him as if he hated him truly,he speaks in a calm "I'm better then you" attitude, not the "I ahte you for what you did to me ims kills joo!" He had just after ROTS.

You do realise that you're not addressing my actual point Mr Strawman. You see, the problem here is that you believe that Vader must have been holding back in ANH because he displays more skill in ESB and RotJ. What you don't seem to understand is that it is easier to display more skill against a lesser opponent than it is against a stronger one.

Are you seriously trying to say hermit Obi Wan was some kind of god? That he could push Vader? Obi Wan could have never beaten Vader, he knew it, even in the ANH novel he says if he could have beaten Vader he would have. At that point Obi Wan was a shell of a shell of his former self.

To compare wrestling to swordfighting is ridiculous, it's a bad analogy, and by rules of debate, I don't even need to reply to this. But I'm a nice guy, so I will. Wrestling is much more physical, it's direct contact, mostly consisting of grapples. There's really not much more to wrestling than simply overpowering your opponent, it's not like there is a solid offence and defence to the sport. Swordfighting is much different

Wow you just proved you have no clue what your talking about. There's no defense or offense to the sport? Have you ever heard of you know "shooting" and the defense to that which is "sprawling". When your in a grapple there's the defense called a "cross-face" thats only tapping the surface, this is 5th grade level wrestling here.

Now the fact that Vader was refraining from killing his son wouldn't make him fight or move any slower, that's ridiculous, he would fight as skilled as he can, just not go in for the kill. It's really not that hard to grasp, quit being foolish.

No, you not knowing the definition of holding back is whats ridicules
Hold back: to set aside; reserve or retain
Now toying with some one in sword fighting is simply, parrying there blows, mocking them, displaying little skill, all the while dominating them at the same time. Thats what Vader did.

Look at Boxing, look at Floyd Maywhether (Vader) vs Carlos Baldomire( Luke) Floyd dominated the fight, dodging everything Carlos threw, taking pop shots, punching not as fast as he usually does, not throwing combinations all the while maintaining the air of superiority, and he could have knocked him out at ANY time had he dug in and started throwing combos, but he choose not to and still looked like he was a godly fighter without actually doing much.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bVQux75Wf_4

Now look at his fight with Jose Luis Castillo, who pushed Floyd to actually fight and exert himself. Showing his skill.

Whatever, the fact is, they were wookies, they weren't force sensitives.

Are you retarded? A rhetorical question. Force sensitivity doesn't matter, this was to show Vaders speed, when people are shooting at you and you can simultaneously dodge, parry and decapitate them and you want me to believe he's slow?

I didn't miss any point, I'm just seeing the feat for what it is. Now if that's truly what you believe, you have to prove that speed is required to pull something like that off.

Again, are you a RETARD. Its self explanatory. If it didn't take speed to dodging blaster bolts, EVERY Jedi would have survived Geonosis, EVERY Jedi would have survived the clone wars. Ulic Qel Droma would have lived longer, Since when is tremendous hand speed and foot work NOT required to charge ENTRENCHED foes, you do know what that means right? They were dug into the ground shooting from a top the mounds built from the digging.

All that sis aid is h's faster and more agile than he was before, that does not equate to fast and agile, reading comprehension much?

That was in regard to Vaders LIGHTNING fast speed, referred to by the narrator in his fight with Roan Shyne. Hooked on Phonics much?

Sure thing! You do realise that the PotJ video isn't the only source for Lucas claiming that Vader is slow, just look at pretty much every interview he's done, it's a well known fact among fans that GL considers Vader slow, just ask Ushgurak.

Post them. And the fact that he moves faster then Mace Windu does and Dooku, contradicts this. Baseless and idiotic.

This argument is logically incorrect, I'll explain why.
You're claiming that this bit of evidence speaks highly for Vader because he defeated Maul. Then, when asked to prove that this Maul was comparable in power to how he was in TPM, your proof is because he did so well against Vader.

What an idiot. My argument implied that Vader is stronger then Qui Gon and Obi Wan who Maul tooled, and because its Vader, who is one of the most powerful Sith ever, the fact Maul pushed him to damn near kill himself is enough.

Are the italics really necessary? I could understand if you were Advent, or Lightsnake, or Gideon, but you? Please, stick to the Revan arguments, the whole concept of swordfighting seems to be too much for you.

Yes because, I'm your superior, and I view myself better then mostly everyone here. But thats regardless, its the fact that YOU are a idiot. That YOU can't logically and coherently debate. That YOU make no sense half the time. That you try to pass of half assed assumptions as fact. That YOU misquote and exaggerate feats. That YOU are generally considered the worst debater here. That YOU are in all actuality a joke. That YOU are even an insult to all the retards and idiots here.

Just one thing:

" My argument implied that Vader is stronger then Qui Gon and Obi Wan who Maul tooled, and because its Vader, who is one of the most powerful Sith ever, the fact Maul pushed him to damn near kill himself is enough."

Actually, you have no proof that Vader>Qui-gon or Obi-Wan at full power (not the one he killed because this one was simply a weak version of the ROTS' Obi-Wan; Vader even said "your powers are weak old man"😉. Actually, i always thought Cyber Vader was good with powers but so good with the saber. Also, the ROTJ fight, well, Vader was not that fast, in fact he seems pretty slow...

Anyway, this is a tough match. Just one question, vader killed anyone especially good as cyber vader?

I'm getting grammar lessons from a guy who uses "and" at the beginning of a sentence and thinks adding LOL! makes him right. If you don't have perfect grammar, which you don't, do not critique others.

No, there's not. This is your ridicules assumption. I've already broken the comment down, Vader was a crippled half man half droid. Fact. Did that deny him speed? No. Really being more energized compared to what? Luke v Vader? Oh course all of the PT duels are gonna be better since, they feature an experienced Jedi vs Jedi or Sith not, a boy vs a Sith Lord toying with him.

Use common sense, I know its a stretch for you...If were going by your ingenious logic then all those included in that little comment: Old Ben, Vader, and LUKE are in fact slow pieces of shit as you so eloquently put it. And that simply is not true:

Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader ROTJ- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqS5x-PiHpw&NR

Now this means one of two things, Lucas was simply dissing his OT characters for what they were, an old man, a half machine, a boy and he wanted fights between Jedi who were fully trained and no one was holding back. Or it could mean that your right and Lucas has contradicted himself once again and because Obi Wan and Anakin vs Dooku AOTC don't move much faster than the ROTJ duel, Mace Windu vs Sidious is actually SLOWER then that and Anakin and Obi Wan v Dooku pt1 ROTS is SLOWER then that. So which is it? I'm going to go with mine.

Sorry, I've broken this now TWO times.

Did I dispute that? We have NEVER seen real Jedi at work because we've seen an old man, a Sith Lord and a Half trained kid. That was the point.

Ah lets see he had lost his burning desire to "RAWR wheres Obi Wan Ima kill hims!!!!" after 20 years or so, he doesn't even speak to him as if he hated him truly,he speaks in a calm "I'm better then you" attitude, not the "I ahte you for what you did to me ims kills joo!" He had just after ROTS.

Are you seriously trying to say hermit Obi Wan was some kind of god? That he could push Vader? Obi Wan could have never beaten Vader, he knew it, even in the ANH novel he says if he could have beaten Vader he would have. At that point Obi Wan was a shell of a shell of his former self.

Wow you just proved you have no clue what your talking about. There's no defense or offense to the sport? Have you ever heard of you know "shooting" and the defense to that which is "sprawling". When your in a grapple there's the defense called a "cross-face" thats only tapping the surface, this is 5th grade level wrestling here.

No, you not knowing the definition of holding back is whats ridicules
Hold back: to set aside; reserve or retain
Now toying with some one in sword fighting is simply, parrying there blows, mocking them, displaying little skill, all the while dominating them at the same time. Thats what Vader did.

Look at Boxing, look at Floyd Maywhether (Vader) vs Carlos Baldomire( Luke) Floyd dominated the fight, dodging everything Carlos threw, taking pop shots, punching not as fast as he usually does, not throwing combinations all the while maintaining the air of superiority, and he could have knocked him out at ANY time had he dug in and started throwing combos, but he choose not to and still looked like he was a godly fighter without actually doing much.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bVQux75Wf_4

Now look at his fight with Jose Luis Castillo, who pushed Floyd to actually fight and exert himself. Showing his skill.

Are you retarded? A rhetorical question. Force sensitivity doesn't matter, this was to show Vaders speed, when people are shooting at you and you can simultaneously dodge, parry and decapitate them and you want me to believe he's slow?

Again, are you a RETARD. Its self explanatory. If it didn't take speed to dodging blaster bolts, EVERY Jedi would have survived Geonosis, EVERY Jedi would have survived the clone wars. Ulic Qel Droma would have lived longer, Since when is tremendous hand speed and foot work NOT required to charge ENTRENCHED foes, you do know what that means right? They were dug into the ground shooting from a top the mounds built from the digging.

That was in regard to Vaders LIGHTNING fast speed, referred to by the narrator in his fight with Roan Shyne. Hooked on Phonics much?

Post them. And the fact that he moves faster then Mace Windu does and Dooku, contradicts this. Baseless and idiotic.

What an idiot. My argument implied that Vader is stronger then Qui Gon and Obi Wan who Maul tooled, and because its Vader, who is one of the most powerful Sith ever, the fact Maul pushed him to damn near kill himself is enough.

Yes because, I'm your superior, and I view myself better then mostly everyone here. But thats regardless, its the fact that YOU are a idiot. That YOU can't logically and coherently debate. That YOU make no sense half the time. That you try to pass of half assed assumptions as fact. That YOU misquote and exaggerate feats. That YOU are generally considered the worst debater here. That YOU are in all actuality a joke. That YOU are even an insult to all the retards and idiots here.

Pwnt Planet

Script:
"The two Galactic warriors stand perfectly still for a few
moments, sizing each other up and waiting for the right
moment. Ben seems to be under increasing pressure and strain,
as if an invisible weight were being placed upon him. He
shakes his head and, blinking, tries to clear his eyes.
Ben makes a sudden lunge at the huge warrior but is checked
by a lightning movement of The Sith. A masterful slash stroke
by Vader is blocked by the old Jedi. Another of the Jedi's
blows is blocked, then countered. Ben moves around the Dark
Lord and starts backing into the massive starship hangar. The
two powerful warriors stand motionless for a few moments with
laser swords locked in mid-air, creating a low buzzing sound."

settled?

Dear God, why would you resurface this demonic thread?

cause I was gone for a few days and saw outright blatant bullshit, and had to come back and put it on top so i could easily find it to rebut that shit...

lets just let it die, i think this vader vs dooku thing is the biggest debate in KMC so lets all drop it because it will never die, god this is like what the 3rd time?

yea i know...just the ignorance provided as "proof" astounds me and pisses me off to the point i want to beat the shit out of something...but damn, if kadesh is trying to drop a Vader fight, then may as well, lol.

Amen to that.

Amen, i mean this is the 3rd time some one start this kind of thread, never ends and im tired,

Im more intrested in the vader vs bane match

more horseshit over there too...

Alot, but i think its fun that Acs ruling out vader > bane after a long hell fight