Darth Vader(TESB) vs Count Dooku(ROTS)

The ROTS novelisation is bullsh*t in my opinion. I honestly cant see how Anakin could have beaten Dooku so easily, it doesnt make sense when you look at the grand scale of things. Dooku could pwn Kenobi, yet Anakin got his limbs tossed around Mustafar by his blade. Dooku can hold his own against Yoda, and had even beaten Mace, yet people seem to think that Anakin would lose against them. Which would imply a huge power gap between people like Mace and Dooku.

But you cant argue canon. Anakin is leagues above Dooku apparently - but thats hardly to say OT Vader is above Dooku.

vader might be equal to mace in the force i think but jedi skills meh i guess he might be stronger but of course this is 20 years later after he gets put in the suit he should be only stronger then dooku if they put the fact that he's trained for so long, but yeah anakin shouldnt have beat him it made no sense, like i said maybe he tapped into hidden power, or maybe sidious made dooku lose those are just speculations but they are possibilities.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Just because Vader has seen Dooku perform the lightning hardly means he knows how to effectively counter it. Especially taking into account then nature in which he saw it (Dooku raises his hand a second later he gets blasted by it, not much time to observe details). All Vader has to do to block it anyway is by channeling it into his blade. However, because of Dooku's superior speed and precision, I find it more than reasonable to beleive he will be able to manouvre himself into a position to maximize the lightning and eliminate Vader with it.

Originally posted by Rampant ox

Perhaps, but the 8 Jedi you refer to absolutely pwned Vader. Vader [b]would have lost had his precious Stormtroopers not made an appearance. Besides, those Jedi were weak in comparison to the Count. Because Vader could perform the technique then does not mean he can perform it on Dooku now.[/B]

Originally posted by Rampant ox

Has Vader ever used a force crush in a lightsaber duel? Not that I can remember (although please correct me if im wrong). However, for some strange reason you think he is going to be able to perform it on Dooku like its some sort of Godly, unstoppable technique. I highly doubt that Vader would be able to crush Dooku, for several reasons. The first, he has never used it in a duelling situation. Secondly, he is up against an esteemed Jedi Master come Sith Lord who is going to be one of the toughest battles Vader has ever experienced. If Vader hasnt used it before in a fighting situation I dont see how he could do it now. Lastly, Dooku is a far faster fighter than Vader. I can hardly see how Vader is going to keep up with the Counts attacks as it is, let alone pulling of a crush as well..

Originally posted by Rampant ox

Fair enough. I dont really care which is stronger. This is Dooku vs Vader, not Vader vs Anakin.

Originally posted by Noob_Krueger
Well IMO...

Anakin > Dooku

But...

Anakin > Darth Vader

Cause...

Lost Limbs, Lost Skin, Lost Organs, Slowed down because of suit, and less Force...
[/i]

According to Memorable Quotes from Star Wars (1977) from IMDb

Darth Vader says the following line to Ben Kenobi:

"Your powers are weak, old man."

Obviously Darth Vader is aware of weak Kenobi is in terms of lightsaber combat when he confronts him. That is why he lazily slams his lightsaber into him. We've seen Darth Vader trying harder in Empire Strikes Back (even though he wasn't going all out), and in ANH, Darth Vader is able to kill Kenobi fast and efficiently. By Vader mentioning the line to Obi-Wan, we've seen how Vader finds Obi-Wan very weak in dueling skills. That's why Vader does not even half try and manages to finish old Ben Kenobi, because the movies clearly as well (apparent difference in lightsaber skills from ANH to ESB for Vader, which makes no sense if Vader was going all out).

Your point is moot. Abandon this point of discusion. It is useless. General Kenobi out...

Did the whole concept of taunting go way over your head or something? Right, so because Vader said 'your powers are weak old man' he was therefor taking it easy. 🙄

And IIRC, Vader didn't defeat Ben, Ben became one with the force.

[sarcasm]But yeah, sure, you've perfectly explained why my point is moot.[/sarcasm]

sexyback why you changed your name, i liked it when it was captain planet lmao

If PT Jedi > Vader, he would have been replaced by one (Jerec?). He wouldn't have been able to beat them (actual battles are in EU, but the reference is in ANH). Lastly, a lot of his feats are far beyond that of PT Jedi. Planet, try not to be completely ridiculous.

Indeed. ^

I mean, he took on 8 jedi at once, and at that moment he wasn't at his best in the suit for what I know!

STFU, you.

Did the whole concept of taunting go way over your head or something? Right, so because Vader said 'your powers are weak old man' he was therefor taking it easy.

Yea, so apparently you believe ANH Vader was going all out. Then what's your excuse of ESB Vader fighting harder and better than in ANH against Luke Skywalker since Vader was not obviously going all out?

Please, unless you are going to say Vader was going all out on Luke, then that should make Luke pretty close to Vader. I guess Luke then could pwn the 8 Jedi on Kessel (because if Luke was close to TESB Vader, and TESB Vader has years experience in fighting Jedi, while Purge Vader had only several monthes, then TESB Vader could pwn the 8 Jedi back then).

So once again, don't make up random excuses.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Thats some nonsense you made up, obviously vader would know what dooku is going to attack with, ever heard of the force? It tells you what your oponent would do and that is how kenobi was able to block dookus lightning.

I dont see what point you are trying to make. Vader might be able to sense if dooku is going to use lightning through the force, but it works both ways. Dooku could just as easily sense if Vader is going to choke him, and therefore manouvre himself to an appropritae position to either stop the technique, or counter it.

Vader WTF pwned 4 of them before getting BACKSTABBED and losing his arms, and considering the fact that he is weaker than OT vader i find that pretty amusing, And again didnt vader blow a blast door and shredded it like it was nothing by just screaming obi wans name?

Feat Wars are irrelevant. You cant say that because Vader and his troops barely survived an onslaught from these 8 Jedi, that Vader will therefore be able to beat Dooku.

Um but vader has used it on the battlefield, taking down a tank the size of an AT-AT and performing a force feat in the battlefield is far more risky than doing so in a dueling match,

I highly doubt that a battlefield is more risky than a lightsaber duel with a Jedi Master come Sith Lord with 80 years of experience under his belt. Besides, Vader has used crush once. I see absolutely no reason to beleive he is going to use it in a lightsaber duel, for the simple reason he never has. If crush is a s godly and 'instant', as you make it out to be, why didnt Vader kill Sidious with it? According to you it cant be blocked or countered and it is instantaneous - therefore by your logic Vader could have easily overthrown Sidious with it (which he was planning to do anyway, in case you post bullsh*t like "z0mg he wouldnt want to kill Sids!!"😉

every heard of a saber lock?

Yes.😐

Dont even start by saying dooku would do lightning during a lock because he wont,

Really, and how do you know he wont? If I recall Dooku has used lightning in a duel before, and besides, he fights with one hand. Therefore he leaves the other hand open for force manouvres.

and need i not mention crush is instant, and does dooku has force shield? No he doesnt

And need I not mention that Vader has used crush once, and that wasnt in a duelling situation. I dont see how you can say that Vader is miracululously going to win the duel with a crush, when there is no evidence to beleive he would even contemplate using it.

I wasn't aware the he actually did fight much better in ESB than he did in ANH, it seems that only you are of this belief. The fact is, he basically wanted to destroy Obi-Wan, and prove his skills were superior, there's no reason why he wouldn't fight to the fullest.

And if Vader really was quick and agile, he would show it even when holding back. He would fight at his best, but just refrain from actually attempting a killer blow; when one holds back, they don't display much less skill than they usually would have, you are clearly very misunderstood and clearly can't apply any intelligent thought to something like this, many of your views are pretty flawed.

I wasn't aware the he actually did fight much better in ESB than he did in ANH, it seems that only you are of this belief. The fact is, he basically wanted to destroy Obi-Wan, and prove his skills were superior, there's no reason why he wouldn't fight to the fullest.

In A New Hope, there was barely any footwork involved between Kenobi and Vader. They just banged lightsabers and Kenobi did a 360 and finally sacrificed himself. In Empire Strikes Back, we saw Vader showing his simplified Djem So might along with using the Force. As Subjekt has pointed out, when Luke did him in the arm, it took Vader seconds to tool young Skywalker.

And if Vader really was quick and agile, he would show it even when holding back. He would fight at his best, but just refrain from actually attempting a killer blow; when one holds back, they don't display much less skill than they usually would have, you are clearly very misunderstood and clearly can't apply any intelligent thought to something like this, many of your views are pretty flawed

Vader was toying around with his former master. He wanted to flaunt his superiority after the disastrous incident at Mustafar. In the case of Luke, Vader was holding back since Luke is his son lol. In the EU, we see Vader unleashed against Jedi, and believe me, it's very impressive.

Debating this is pointless like pointing out before. We'll never agree on who wins.

Well in terms of dueling there is no debate, Dooku is much better than Vader, that's a fact.

Well in terms of dueling there is no debate, Dooku is much better than Vader, that's a fact.

Unfortunately, that still remains to be seen by your side.

I've already provided the proof General, I gave you a link to 'your side' the 'Prime of the Jedi' video, and posted the exact quotes which prove that Dooku is a better duelist than Vader. So far, all I've seen on 'your side' is appeal to majority.

You know why we are using Appeal to Popular Opinion, because we have already prove Vader > Tyrannus in the biggest versus thread in this entire forum. We're not going to argue our asses again for something we have tirelessly fought previously before.

Just like you proved that ESB Luke is as strong as Qui-Gon, right? You guys didn't prove shit, you just had more numbers, that's all it was. By Lucas' own admission, Dooku is a stronger duelist than Vader is. What Lucas says goes, a bunch of whiny fanboys do not change that.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
If PT Jedi > Vader, he would have been replaced by one (Jerec?). He wouldn't have been able to beat them (actual battles are in EU, but the reference is in ANH). Lastly, a lot of his feats are far beyond that of PT Jedi. Planet, try not to be completely ridiculous.

Comment on it, Sexy.

Also, Vaders EU Skills > Dookus.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
You know why we are using Appeal to Popular Opinion, because we have already prove Vader > Tyrannus in the biggest versus thread in this entire forum. We're not going to argue our asses again for something we have tirelessly fought previously before.

I dont ever recall you proving anything of the sort. I do remember however 1000+ posts on the subject, which still got us nowhere so we decided to call it even. Dont even try to say you won the debate, because you would be sadly mistaking.