Blind Spider-man vs Daredevil

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Radar sense cannot compensate for true precognition, there are many street leveler supporters that say super senses is/are precog. Sensing *where* a bullet is coming from, and sensing it before it happens are two different things. There not need be any vibrations. Spidersense has gone off because of a mere thought. Though it is almost never written to its full potential in comics, any guage of threat would cause it to go off. If Spiderman had to rely on his Spidersense his whole life (which has been upgraded) he would be much more powerful with it, than if he had sight as well, no different than any other human. If a missle is coming at a group like it did when Spiderman was with Iron Man, what good is DD? By the time he even senses most threats it is too late (when they move at quick speeds like missles and bullets), what about Supernatural assualt. What good is his senses then? They only work on a natural level, Spiderman's works on a Supernatural level.
It isn't essential at all that he uses it, it is his extra eye in combat. He instinctively uses it, if he bothered looking for most of his threats, it would be too late. Instead the system paints a stronger warning for stronger threats.

I disagree to some extent. Sure, radar sense cannot compensate for LONG term precog IE spidersense, but it is still precog, although relatively short. To paint a picture, it is sort of like being a few seconds ahead. The amalgamazation (sp?) Of daredevils senses, specifically his "touch" and "feeling", it allows him to know whats going to happen a bit ahead of time.

For instacne, in combat he can feel muscle contractions and read nerves in a way that he by now -- similar to how you say spidermans spidersense is now second nature -- he knows what types of movements accompany these "hints". So sure, at one point it may not have been as strong of a "precog" as i believe it is now, but daredevil has been at it for so long, as you say with the spidersense, his radarsense is too second nature. So it is infact precog, albeit not as forwarning as spidersense, as i just stated. He can detect where things are coming from as its happening, but as i have been saying, it takes a little more thought than spiderman has to exert.

Also, Radar sense does work on the supernatural level. The radiation that he was exposed to as a child gave him superhuman reflexes and abilities. Feeling the muscle contractions of someone a half a mile away is anything but natural. Perhaps his reflexes arent as strong as spidermans one SINGLE reflex (spider sense) -- but it is the combination of all his senses focused onto one person that i believe ATLEAST, puts it on par with spidersense. Although, i perosnally think its better, but thats my opinion on the sense.

And for the scenario you gave, in actuality, dardevil would have detected the missiles when they were close enough ( i believe around a miles distance, his senses start to not work, its explained in DD #87? or something) He would have heard the missile coming, and eventually felt what direction it was coming from. But i will give you the fact that spiderman would have known it a bit earlier than daredevil would have.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
I disagree to some extent. Sure, radar sense cannot compensate for LONG term precog IE spidersense, but it is still precog, although relatively short. To paint a picture, it is sort of like being a few seconds ahead. The amalgamazation (sp?) Of daredevils senses, specifically his "touch" and "feeling", it allows him to know whats going to happen a bit ahead of time.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
For instacne, in combat he can feel muscle contractions and read nerves in a way that he by now -- similar to how you say spidermans spidersense is now second nature -- he knows what types of movements accompany these "hints". So sure, at one point it may not have been as strong of a "precog" as i believe it is now, but daredevil has been at it for so long, as you say with the spidersense, his radarsense is too second nature. So it is infact precog, albeit not as forwarning as spidersense, as i just stated. He can detect where things are coming from as its happening, but as i have been saying, it takes a little more thought than spiderman has to exert.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Also, Radar sense does work on the supernatural level. The radiation that he was exposed to as a child gave him superhuman reflexes and abilities. Feeling the muscle contractions of someone a half a mile away is anything but natural. Perhaps his reflexes arent as strong as spidermans one SINGLE reflex (spider sense) -- but it is the combination of all his senses focused onto one person that i believe ATLEAST, puts it on par with spidersense. Although, i perosnally think its better, but thats my opinion on the sense.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And for the scenario you gave, in actuality, dardevil would have detected the missiles when they were close enough ( i believe around a miles distance, his senses start to not work, its explained in DD #87? or something) He would have heard the missile coming, and eventually felt what direction it was coming from. But i will give you the fact that spiderman would have known it a bit earlier than daredevil would have.

Obviously these senses are good for different situations, my point is more or less that Spidersense is more suited for combat overall. Obviously DD has an advantage in being blind like he is. So this would affect him none.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It isn't precog because it doesn't detect the threat before the threat occurs. Muscles tightening is still something happening, and his sense is no good in that situation of there is no actual threat... yet. It gives him the jump, sure, but it still has to happen. The muscles not even need to tighten for the Spidersense to go off and it's still precog. A man tightening his muscles and being dodged because of it isn't precog, it is just heightened senses, and lets not neglect to mention that heightened senses has it's disadvantages too.

Spiderman's spidersense is instinct, it goes off like a buzzing alarm, he can't avoid them at all, it would be no different than you and I having an instinct. DD's radar sense works when he is able to function and he is in control of it, otherwise it is just senses. They are active, Spider sense is passive, he need not "use" it the same way.

What I mean by natural is it still works in the realm of senses, it isn't anything mystical or divine in nature like Spidersense is, Spiderman's Spidersense has been improved and has been described as something mystical in nature, like I said, if DD was under a mystical or Supernatural assault, his senses would do him little good. He won't have as much time to react, so him sensing it, would allow him to roll from a character as fast as Spiderman at best.

It is no different than when daredevil choses to hone in on something and focus his talents on just that. So its a bit of both, Passive, but also requires some focus. And in a sense, spiderman must do the same. He could let his spidersense just ring, and choose not to react to why it is ringing in the same sense that Daredevil could sense danger, but chose not to focus in on it and do nothing about it. Both of thier sense are passive -- as all are -- but both must be reacted too in seperate ways. The difference being daredevil must react to his sense & the danger, whereas Spiderman must simply react to the danger (im posting a bit early incase my power goes out, so this post might be incomplete, otherwise ignore this).

They would go off, but it would be a bit later than he could react, that's him hearing the missles, which is a bit different I'll say.

Obviously these senses are good for different situations, my point is more or less that Spidersense is more suited for combat overall. Obviously DD has an advantage in being blind like he is. So this would affect him none.

Yes, in different scenarios, spidermans senses would have its advantages over daredevils, and in the same sense i believe Daredevils have advantages over Spidermans. Because spiderman is generally higher in most stats than daredevil, thiers a point where daredevil may be able to compute danger but not respond to it and on the otherhand spiderman will atleast always get a warning regardless. But in this scenario, Daredevils senses in conjuction with his allready superior H2h skills is a significant advantage here. Seeing that martially speaking, he is allready trained to naturally fight well and that coped with his enhanced senses give him a major advantage over most street level type opponents, and in this scenario, spiderman.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Well now that you mention it, i do agree that in the literal and true sense of what precog is, you could say Radar sense isint "true" precog. I agree, that precog does stem into the essense that it truely hasnt happened yet. Perhaps better put it is more "pre-emptive" than anything, and a bit more specific than spidersense. [/B]

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
And i do agree that spidersense is Passive, but on the other hand Daredevils are passive as well in the same way that us hearing and seeing is passive. We chose to focus or react, or hone in on things. [/B]

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
It is no different than when daredevil choses to hone in on something and focus his talents on just that. So its a bit of both, Passive, but also requires some focus. And in a sense, spiderman must do the same. He could let his spidersense just ring, and choose not to react to why it is ringing in the same sense that Daredevil could sense danger, but chose not to focus in on it and do nothing about it. Both of thier sense are passive -- as all are -- but both must be reacted too in seperate ways. The difference being daredevil must react to his sense & the danger, whereas Spiderman must simply react to the danger (im posting a bit early incase my power goes out, so this post might be incomplete, otherwise ignore this).[/B]

But Spidersense is more passive, because most of the time he just gets the alarm and instinctively dodges it, it's like a sharp tug. Very hard to avoid. DD's senses aren't quite to that degree. Like I said, give a nobody Spidersense and they'd be much more lethal than a person with Radar sense, because it is instantly easier to use.

Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
Yes, in different scenarios, spidermans senses would have its advantages over daredevils, and in the same sense i believe Daredevils have advantages over Spidermans. Because spiderman is generally higher in most stats than daredevil, thiers a point where daredevil may be able to compute danger but not respond to it and on the otherhand spiderman will atleast always get a warning regardless. But in this scenario, Daredevils senses in conjuction with his allready superior H2h skills is a significant advantage here. Seeing that martially speaking, he is allready trained to naturally fight well and that coped with his enhanced senses give him a major advantage over most street level type opponents, and in this scenario, spiderman. [/B]

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It isn't precog because it doesn't detect the threat before the threat occurs. Muscles tightening is still something happening, and his sense is no good in that situation of there is no actual threat... yet. It gives him the jump, sure, but it still has to happen. The muscles not even need to tighten for the Spidersense to go off and it's still precog. A man tightening his muscles and being dodged because of it isn't precog, it is just heightened senses, and lets not neglect to mention that heightened senses has it's disadvantages too.

Bro with all due respect I think you are playing with semantics. Spiderman's senses are not supernatural therefore there is some logical explanation to how they work. At the end of the day pre-cog is knowing something before it happens it does not matter what the explanation is.

Spiderman's senses have been compared to a spider which has very sensitive hairs which tingle when its in danger. Its not illogical to say that Spiderman's senses are similar in which he has some reciever that senses sometyhing happening and therefore means danger.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Mind controlled = Not fighting correctly true. But it also sometimes means that they are going all out with their powers. Speed and Strength wise. However they dont fight as smart as they normally would. Although some do.

Well if they are mind controlled it doesnt always mean they will be fighting with less skill. They can be given the command to kill and then they will use all their skill to kill the target.

Originally posted by jrodslam

2nd and 3rd time they fought. And i didnt say Spidey couldnt land a hit. He couldnt land a good one.

Yeah but im sure he was holding back then.

Originally posted by jrodslam

There was also the instance where Spidey was in his black costume and was suuuper angry and DD had to ko him to stop him. Spidey wasnt mind controlled there.

Ok good point, you see what a pissed Spiderman did to the Iron man of 2020?

You know, I just thought of something. People are claiming that the radar sense is also pre-cog. While I think the radar sense is incredibly exceptional in its abilities, it is not pre-cog, like the spider-sense is.

If DD just happened to be fighting someone with say, a bad case of Tourette's syndrome, it could/would throw his radar sense off entirely. Muscles would tense sporadically, heartrate would spike for a brief moment, random movement would occur. To DD, he would be like "What's this?! Muscles tensing, heart rate increasing! He's about to strike!" And then he would be completely thrown off as to when the opponent is actually about to strike.

If the same thing happened to Spider-Man, his spider-sense wouldn't warn him about the Tourette's syndrome attacker until he was ACTUALLY about to strike, not just when he flailed around.

I could've gone into more detail here, but I feel that you all will understand my point. I've got to get back to studying for my final exam in less than two hours, haha.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
You know, I just thought of something. People are claiming that the radar sense is also pre-cog. While I think the radar sense is incredibly exceptional in its abilities, it is not pre-cog, like the spider-sense is.

Yes but its still pre-cog.

Originally posted by Metalmanx

If DD just happened to be fighting someone with say, a bad case of Tourette's syndrome, it could/would throw his radar sense off entirely. Muscles would tense sporadically, heartrate would spike for a brief moment, random movement would occur. To DD, he would be like "What's this?! Muscles tensing, heart rate increasing! He's about to strike!" And then he would be completely thrown off as to when the opponent is actually about to strike.

If the same thing happened to Spider-Man, his spider-sense wouldn't warn him about the Tourette's syndrome attacker until he was ACTUALLY about to strike, not just when he flailed around.

I could've gone into more detail here, but I feel that you all will understand my point. I've got to get back to studying for my final exam in less than two hours, haha.

All you've done is give an example where DD would have problems. He might not actually be thrown off because he can distingusih between different types of movement for example somebody about to do an involuntary twitch is different from somebody about to punch. DD will probably be able to know the difference.

Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception. Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception.

DD has extra-sensory perception.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Also even the theory of pre-cog has differences of opinion some people say that all pre-cog is an analysis of current and past events that show you a possible outcome. Even believers in pre-cog will tell you that you cant get it always right, therefore this explanation makes sense.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Well I dont see how Spiderman senses dont do the same. His ability is based on a particular kind of Spider which has sensitive hairs at the back of its head. Therefore Spiderman probably has something similar. These receptors do the same thing as DD's the only difference is we get less explanations of how Spiderman does it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
DD has extra-sensory perception.

No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Daredevil has enhanced senses and through a combination of his sense of touch and hearing he can read a person. But thats all he does. Read and interpret. He doesn't just magically know. There is a blueprint to attacks and Daredevil knows this so he knows what to look for. Spider-Man on the other hand just knows when there's danger.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Also even the theory of pre-cog has differences of opinion some people say that all pre-cog is an analysis of current and past events that show you a possible outcome. Even believers in pre-cog will tell you that you cant get it always right, therefore this explanation makes sense.

What we're talking about here is being able to react to something without any prior knowledge of it. That is the essence of pre-cognition and what Daredevil does not have.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I dont see how Spiderman senses dont do the same. His ability is based on a particular kind of Spider which has sensitive hairs at the back of its head. Therefore Spiderman probably has something similar. These receptors do the same thing as DD's the only difference is we get less explanations of how Spiderman does it.

No it doesn't. Your probably going by what you see in the movie but the comic he's at best only been able to guess about how his spider-sense works and now its been said that his spider-sense is supernatural/mystical in nature

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro with all due respect I think you are playing with semantics. Spiderman's senses are not supernatural therefore there is some logical explanation to how they work. At the end of the day pre-cog is knowing something before it happens it does not matter what the explanation is.

Spiderman's senses have been compared to a spider which has very sensitive hairs which tingle when its in danger. Its not illogical to say that Spiderman's senses are similar in which he has some reciever that senses sometyhing happening and therefore means danger.

Well if they are mind controlled it doesnt always mean they will be fighting with less skill. They can be given the command to kill and then they will use all their skill to kill the target.

Yeah but im sure he was holding back then.

Ok good point, you see what a pissed Spiderman did to the Iron man of 2020?

DD doesn't have precog, precog is knowing something happening before it does. He doesn't know that something happens before it happens. A person making noise pulling on the trigger before the bullet comes out is still trying to shoot DD, that really shouldn't be hard to understand. He might sense the bullet before it leaves the chamber, but that person would have had to want to fire the bullet.

Originally posted by marvelprince
No he doesn't. ESP is the ability to acquire information through means other than the five senses, usually delving into the realm of the supernatural

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_sensory_perception

Daredevil has enhanced senses and through a combination of his sense of touch and hearing he can read a person. But thats all he does. Read and interpret. He doesn't just magically know. There is a blueprint to attacks and Daredevil knows this so he knows what to look for. Spider-Man on the other hand just knows when there's danger.

Bah ok.

Originally posted by marvelprince
What we're talking about here is being able to react to something without any prior knowledge of it. That is the essence of pre-cognition and what Daredevil does not have.

No it doesn't. Your probably going by what you see in the movie but the comic he's at best only been able to guess about how his spider-sense works and now its been said that his spider-sense is supernatural/mystical in nature

Well thats just retcon. Spiderman was bitten by aradioactive spider he was not bitten by Pegasus or a mystical Gremlin. Therefore his powers emulate that of a spider as you know there is a spider that has a danger sense. Therefore Spiderman's senses should not be mystical or be pre-cog they should be a different version of DD's. If anything DD's powers should be mystical because.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Daredevil_%28Matt_Murdock%29

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.

If you look at the link you posted about ESP it mentions Dr Mesmer.

When Franz Anton Mesmer and Grigori Rasputin were first popularizing hypnosis, the legend came about that a person who was hypnotized would be able to demonstrate ESP.

I know that Dr Mesmer used to use magnets to induce people into a trance like state then moved to using his eyes and hands.

Have you seen the film Event Horizon there is a device that alters reality which uses electromagnetic energy. Furthermore there was a film about the Bermuda Triangle which suggested that the strange events were due to electromagnetic energy. This maybe science fiction but sco-fi is usually based on some fact. Anyone who has studied the supernatural and science will know that electromagnetic energy is a very important factor.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
How am I playing with Semantics? Is it natural for a person to have precognitive senses?

Is it natural to have radar sense?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

It's described as mystical in his own comics, and after he received his upgrades, it isn't like "sight, seeing, hearing, or strength" and there's hardly a 100% rational explanation behind it, you learn more about it as he learns more about himself, but this is a semantical debate.

Thats just retcon. The source of his powers are radioactive not mystical.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

DD doesn't have precog, precog is knowing something happening before it does. He doesn't know that something happens before it happens. A person making noise pulling on the trigger before the bullet comes out is still trying to shoot DD, that really shouldn't be hard to understand. He might sense the bullet before it leaves the chamber, but that person would have had to want to fire the bullet.

Ok I see what your saying but lets put it this way. Say we have apple juice and water. Apple juice is not the same as water but at the end of the day I dont give a **** if im thirsty. Apple juice will do the same job as water eventhough its different.

The point im trying to make is DD's senses may not be pre-cog persay but it still does the same job.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well thats just retcon. Spiderman was bitten by a[B]radioactive spider he was not bitten by Pegasus or a mystical Gremlin. Therefore his powers emulate that of a spider as you know there is a spider that has a danger sense. Therefore Spiderman's senses should not be mystical or be pre-cog they should be a different version of DD's. If anything DD's powers should be mystical because.[/B]

I agree that his powers shouldn't be mystical but thats the route the current writer seems to be taking. The question has been asked if whether or not the spider became radioactive and bit Peter hence inadvertently giving him powers or whether the spider had the ability ro pass on its powers and happened to become radioactive and intently bit Peter so it could pass on its power before it died.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The point im trying to make is DD's senses may not be pre-cog persay but it still does the same job.

It can work on that same level yes, but the point is that its not true pre-cog and as such Spider-Man has an advantage cause he doesn't have to sort through data in order to interpret danger. He simply gets a reading of danger

Originally posted by marvelprince
I agree that his powers shouldn't be mystical but thats the route the current writer seems to be taking. The question has been asked if whether or not the spider became radioactive and bit Peter hence inadvertently giving him powers or whether the spider had the ability ro pass on its powers and happened to become radioactive and intently bit Peter so it could pass on its power before it died.

Well if we have another Cap vs Spidey debate im gonna pull this example, just to show that even in Spidermans's world not everything makes sense either. 😱

Originally posted by marvelprince

It can work on that same level yes, but the point is that its not true pre-cog and as such Spider-Man has an advantage cause he doesn't have to sort through data in order to interpret danger. He simply gets a reading of danger

Well I still dont think Spiderman has the adavanatge because DD is used to his senses. Of course if somebody was a beginner then they would have trouble.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Daredevil does NOT have pre-cog.

Precognition is a form of extra-sensory perception. Believers in precognition say it allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge).

Daredevil does not know things before they happen. He recieves advanced input via his senses which he then translates and interprets in order to deduce his opponents move.

Quoted for the truth. 👆

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Quoted for the truth. 👆

Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

Even before the retcon his sense was always considered pre-cog. You say its attributed to a real life spiders danger sense but it has never been established in comics, only speculated. Its never relied on outward input from any of his five senses so its always been extra-sensory perception. The retcon was just a way of explaining it

Originally posted by marvelprince
Even before the retcon his sense was always considered pre-cog. You say its attributed to a real life spiders danger sense but it has never been established in comics, only speculated.

Well he gets a tingling in the base of the skull and you have a spider that does the samething. Thats not really speculation. Thats like saying its speculation that Jack Russell has a heightened sense of smell.

Originally posted by marvelprince

Its never relied on outward input from any of his five senses so its always been extra-sensory perception.

So its still a sense. The mutant destiny has real pre-cog Spiderman does not until the retcon.

Originally posted by marvelprince

The retcon was just a way of explaining it

Hell no, they are just creating something new. Radioactive to mystical I dont think so somehow.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bah! Spiderman only has pre-cog because of a retcon.

...Uh...wha? 🤨

Have you never read Spider-Man before? 😑

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...Uh...wha? 🤨

Have you never read Spider-Man before? 😑

Bro he is based on a Spider that has heigethened senses, not a gremlin. Logic dicatates that his senses do what DD says, but we are not given an explanantion.

Hey wait a minute DD does have ESP

Perception of aspects of others which most people cannot perceive, by means of aura reading, medical intuition, clairsentience and telepathy etc.

Auras are energy fields and DD sense can do this.

Radar Sense: Daredevil can also sense the proximity and arrangement of objects about himself. According to one theory, Daredevil's "radar sense" functions via his brain's generation of energy within a certain portion of the electromagnetic spectrum.