Ultimate Nullifier vs. Infinity Gauntlet?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Whilst i'll always believe the UN has more destructive power, but an IG wielder will win in a battle, i'm always changing my mind about whether the UN directly nullified reality, or the problem causing elements within reality.

Has the UN EVER been shown previously or since the Abraxas saga to have a resetting effect. i.e the ability to nullify something and straight away bring something back but amended?

Has it shown the ability to do anything but nullify something out of existence. If so what?

Thats the key to this debate.

"All the different ways you can be nullied are all the same."

So in other words:

"All the [bdifferent[/b] ways you can be nullified are not different."

This makes sense to you guys?

The reality gem let's you mess with the laws of nature.. The laws o physics... The natural order of things...

Thats why without the reality gem merging two universes together wouldn't have been fully realized...

Originally posted by Mindset
I take it you didn't actually read his post, if you did, then I take it there's no point in continuing this conversation...and I didn't read far past you first sentence since it was irrelevant to my post. No, not by my logic, by the daft logic you seem to be trying to push on me, maybe.

Originally posted by Mindset
Didn't it say/show everything was erased in the abraxas arc, I don't feel like looking.

Not specifically.

Its open to interpretation. Arguments can be made for Eternity being directly targeted and for the problem causing elements in reality being targeted. The depiction of Eternity crumbling apart and being restored could be the result of either.

But thats why the key to this argument is whether there is precedence for the UN nullifying something and then restoring it with key elements missing. Or has it in the past and ever since JUST straight up nullified stuff

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"All the [b]different ways you can be nullied are all the same."

So in other words:

"All the [bdifferent[/b] ways you can be nullified are not different."

This makes sense to you guys? [/B]

Originally posted by rotiart
The reality gem let's you mess with the laws of nature.. The laws o physics... The natural order of things...

Thats why without the reality gem merging two universes together wouldn't have been fully realized...

^ You call this simple:

"There are different ways to be nullified, but they are not different."

Originally posted by Black bolt z
What?your going by what has affected a larger area.

No.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You call this simple:

"There are [b]different ways to be nullified, but they are not different." [/B]

If you nullify their body they are nullfied.

Different kinds of nullnifcation.Same effect.I'll let you ponder this for a few hours.Hopefully your brain will get it by then.

^ Is nullifying your body different from nullifying your body AND the entirety of your existence? If you had to pick, which one was the more potent nullification?

Or, are they exactly the same?

Changing what the nullifier does assumes that the power of the ig is more powerful than te force the un puts out... Noone knows for sure...

Redirecting it is much easier.. That's just warping space... Mind control.. Etc...

The quasar argument as shown in a side issue said basically by thanos that he didn't believe quasar would be able to use the un adequately... Poor quasar sitting there trying to concentrate on the beam...

there are different routes you can take to get home, but you still end up at home. I guess that's the gist of BB's argument.

and I think the differences here are in more fundamental conceptions of "nullification". one that posits it to be a layered process (spiritual, bodily, astral, abstract/mbody) with the implication that moving up in scale and scope of nullification (spatial quadrant, universe, multiverse, omniverse for scale, and body, soul/spirit, idea/concept/abstract force/mbody for scope) requiring a similar expansion in 'nullification energies' to achieve the progressively more terminal goals.

the other view is that nullification is a singular and transcendent phenomena that has no such qualitative degree of scale... that much like people dying in the real world, when you're dead, you are dead. a cannon cannot kill you any further than a bullet can (once you cease to be alive). that if a force can prevent death, then surely it doesn't matter if it was doing so against death by bullet or death by nuclear bomb.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What the sh1t are you babbling about?

5 CCUs would have taken hours upon hours to merge a shadowy version onto a single universe. Guess those machines and that resistance must have been worth 5 mulitverses worth of power to slow down 5 CCUs that much. Seriously. What are you even talking about here?

Seriously, why do you have such a hard time grasping the IN UNIVERSE notion that a CCU's effectiveness is entirely dependent on the user? And machine controls make a poor user indeed. This was STATED in Infinity War, so WHY you feel like arguing against it is beyond me.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A single CCU is not "far more than multiversal."

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
616 Eternity/Infinity >>> Incomplete IG >>> 5 CCUs >>> Many Multiverses >>> UN >>> Multi-Eternity.

616 Eternity/Infinity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Multi-Eternity?

This is the conclusion that you've drawn from your air-tight comparisons?

616 Eternity/Infinity >>> Incomplete IG >>> 5 CCUs (used by machines)

And:

CCU (at full potential) >>> Many Multiverses >>> UN >>> Multi-Eternity.

However, no matter who wields the CCU, a complete gauntlet is always going to be superior in power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Is nullifying your body different from nullifying your body AND the entirety of your existence? If you had to pick, which one was the more potent nullification?

Or, are they exactly the same?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Is nullifying your body different from nullifying your body AND the entirety of your existence? If you had to pick, which one was the more potent nullification?

Or, are they exactly the same?

Originally posted by rotiart
The quasar argument as shown in a side issue said basically by thanos that he didn't believe quasar would be able to use the un adequately... Poor quasar sitting there trying to concentrate on the beam...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Namor had a CCU and his limit with it was creating a fish monster and keeping himself moist. Thanos had a CCU and became Eternity. Magus had five and couldn't merge two universes. A fragment of one was collapsing the multiverse. Goddess had 30 and couldn't destroy the universe.

Seriously, why do you have such a hard time grasping the IN UNIVERSE notion that a CCU's effectiveness is entirely dependent on the user? And machine controls make a poor user indeed. This was STATED in Infinity War, so WHY you feel like arguing against it is beyond me.

Let me ask you a question... did you really not see that coming? Did you think that I posted all those posts without planning to bring you right back to exactly where I wanted you? Strenuously making an argument that can be equally applied to my point of view? Prescience, my friend. Prescience.

Originally posted by King Kandy
A fragment of a CCU was collapsing the multiverse. How is this NOT an indication that the CCU has multiversal power? Let alone five of them.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The thing you are neglecting to include here is that the CCU's effectiveness is ENTIRELY DEPENDENT ON WHO IS USING IT. What your list SHOULD say is:

616 Eternity/Infinity >>> Incomplete IG >>> 5 CCUs (used by machines)

And:

CCU (at full potential) >>> Many Multiverses >>> UN >>> Multi-Eternity.

However, no matter who wields the CCU, a complete gauntlet is always going to be superior in power.

So if you think a fragment of a CCU is "far more than multiversal" then you have concluded:

616 Eternity/Infinity >>> incomplete IG >>> 5 CCUs >>> 1 CCU >>> CCU fragment >>> multiverses >>> UN >>> Multi-Eternity.

And therefore, your air-tight comparisons conclude that 616 Eternity/Infinity >>> Multi-Eternity.

UNLESS... you realize that a user's inability to properly harness an artifact's power should not be determinative of the artifact's power...

... which would equally apply to Quasar's handling of the UN... which you have argued so hard conerning Magus' use fo the 5 CCUs.

And here we are. Thanks for your help in destroying your own arguments. And if you don't recognize the catch-22 I just caught you in... your ability to equivocate, pander, ignore logic OR use a blatant double-standard is truly indicative of sheer talent. Truly.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
In both you are nullfied.How many people have come back from being nullfied?

Or... is there no difference involved here?

Originally posted by King Kandy
When has it EVER been shown that the UN can nullify things in different ways? The only thing I have ever seen change was the size of the thing being nullified, never something being "more nullified" than anything else. The result of nullification was revealed in Quasar, and it is always the same: one is brought to Oblivion's realm.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seriously, why do you have such a hard time grasping the IN UNIVERSE notion that the UN's effectiveness is entirely dependent on the user? And a nervous, ignorant Quasar makes a poor user indeed. This was STATED in Infinity War, so WHY you feel like arguing against it is beyond me.

Let me ask you a question... did you really not see that coming? Did you think that I posted all those posts without planning to bring you right back to exactly where I wanted you? Strenuously making an argument that can be equally applied to my point of view? Prescience, my friend. Prescience.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I have no idea what you're talking about. And your proclamations are basically meaningless to me. Again... what are you talking about?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Magus stated that the IG's power far surpassed that provided by the 5 CCUs. That's why he wanted, and planned everything to obtain, the IG. No qualification at all to that statement.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Furthermore, that superiority was proven on-panel by an incomplete IG when it apparently merged the shadowy diversion onto the single universe almost instantly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And guess what? 616 Eternity/Infinity defeated that incomplete IG on-panel.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Thus, 616 Eternity/Infinity proved superior to an incomplete IG which proved superior to 5 CCUs.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So if you think a fragment of a CCU is "far more than multiversal" then you have concluded:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
616 Eternity/Infinity >>> incomplete IG >>> 5 CCUs >>> 1 CCU >>> CCU fragment >>> multiverses >>> UN >>> Multi-Eternity.

And therefore, your air-tight comparisons conclude that 616 Eternity/Infinity >>> Multi-Eternity.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
UNLESS... you realize that a user's inability to properly harness an artifact's power should not be determinative of the artifact's power...

... which would equally apply to Quasar's handling of the UN... which you have argued so hard conerning Magus' use fo the 5 CCUs.