Ultimate Nullifier vs. Infinity Gauntlet?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Except for the fact that its really not the same at all.The properties of nullification didn't change.So if an incomplete IG owned a small version of it then why can't a complete IG redirct it or just plain make it disappear then one shot the user?

Except everything he said was true.

You still have to prove reed nullfied the multiverse.As you yet haven't.

You guys are trying to use idiocy to justify your conclusions.

What exactly is proving it to you again supposed to accomplish when you think there's no difference between a slowly expanding marble-sized nullification sphere and an instantaneous Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The IG being incomplete has no bearing on the redirection at all so ive never understood why IG fans have latched on to this point.

Its the Power Gem that amps up all of the other gems to universal levels. If one gem other than the power one is missing that just means less versatility to your overall arsenal. It doesnt make the power of the other gems any less.

For the re-direction of an energy beam, all that was needed was the power gem with its universal scale energy manipulation abilities. The presence of the Reality gem would not have made the power gem or any of the other gems more powerful.

WHen I was saying it like that I meant IG is stronger then UN.

No.But with the power gem what he can do to the UN or UN wielder goes up a lot.

Originally posted by zopzop
No I can do better but what's the point. It won't convince you. Maelstrom was later shown GOING TOE TO TOE vs Thanos and the IG in an issue of Quasar. He even had time to switch his attention to Quasar and send a blast that knocked Quasar clear out of our multiverse and into another!

That was an alternate reality Thanos and Maelstrom. With that in mind, what those alternate counterparts got up to has no relevance to a debate about the 616 versions of said characters. This point to, shouldnt be brought up again. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This point has already been addressed by myself and King Kandy and quite conclusively as well. It was down to Maelstrom being the new Anomaly and says nothing about a lack of power in the IG. Therefore the point doesnt need to be brought up again.

Then someone at Marvel needs to retconn Maelstrom's bio. Because it's right there in black and white. He amassed MORE power than the IG. And he feared the UN.

He went one on one vs Thanos/IG and still had time to knock Quasar into another multiverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The IG being incomplete has no bearing on the redirection at all so ive never understood why IG fans have latched on to this point.

Its the Power Gem that amps up all of the other gems to universal levels. If one gem other than the power one is missing that just means less versatility to your overall arsenal. It doesnt make the power of the other gems any less.

For the re-direction of an energy beam, all that was needed was the power gem with its universal scale energy manipulation abilities. The presence of the Reality gem would not have made the power gem or any of the other gems more powerful.

Truth

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This point to, shouldnt be brought up again. 😬 [/B]

Then what about the OFFICIAL bio from Marvel stating Maelstrom > IG? What's the reason for ignoring that?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The result of nullification doesn't change? The blast that the UN emits can change though. Stop equating "cause" with "effect." Stop equating "source" with "result." Looking at it from a wholly different angle if you can't even figure that out... what happens when the result isn't simple physical nullification but absolute existential nullification? There's no difference between the two?

You guys are trying to use idiocy to justify your conclusions.

What exactly is proving it to you again supposed to accomplish when you think there's no difference between a slowly expanding marble-sized nullification sphere and an instantaneous Multiverse-wide destruction/recreation blast?

Ignoring evidence huh?Yep that seems like you.

Because you somehow think a multiverse blast is more powerful.And you haven't proved that he even nullfied the multiverse.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
If you are nullfied you are nullfied.There can be different forms of nullfication but the end effect is still the same.Your nullfied.

This is your argument?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Ignoring evidence huh?Yep that seems like you.

Because you somehow think a multiverse blast is more powerful.And you haven't proved that he even nullfied the multiverse.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No reality gem?I think that might make a difference.

WHen I was saying it like that I meant IG is stronger then UN.

No.But with the power gem what he can do to the UN or UN wielder goes up a lot.

The reality gem doesnt affect the power of the other gems at all. It is ONLY the power gem that has any bearing on the other gems, it amps them all up to universal scale power. You can see the difference between a power gem amped set of gems and the gems alone by comparing the feats achieved by Thanos with the IG and the members of Infinity Watch wielding individual gems.

The missing reality gem just meant that Magus had less versatility to his arsenal, it did NOT make the other gems any less powerful. It is ONLY the power gem that affects the other gems, it backs them up.

To re-direct energy it is ONLY the power gem that was required and that was present in the Gauntlet.

If it was the Power Gem that was missing, then u would have a case for saying that the IG is likely more powerful cos it amps all of the others up majorly. The Reality gem wasnt needed to redirect energy and its presence would not have made a difference to the abilities of the other gems.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your nullfied."You can be nullified in different ways... but they're all the same."

This is your argument? Am I the only one looking at these arguments with a complete sense of disbelief?

No. I'm looking at you with disbelief. Is this a tough concept for you to understand?

The MORE ENERGY doesn't increase NULLIFICATION POTENCY. Said more energy is needed because of the INCREASING SCALE. If more stuff is being nullified then of course more energy is needed. Is this a tough thing to grasp or something? Show me ONE shred of evidence that shows when you increase the scale objects are nullified to a greater effect i.e. with greater nullification forces. Please provide ANY evidence that suggest this. I'm not saying what you keep repeating ad naseum that they are the same... they aren't the same as one is nullifying a lot more. Yet, what remains the same is nullification is nullification and things weren't nullified in a more devasting manner. Not ONE shred of evidence saying so.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Really since when? You guys are trying to argue that ONE superior feat in ONE area (nullification) makes it superior to the IG. You're also trying to argue that Thanos couldn't resist a larger scale nullification with NO proof what-so-ever. What we do know is that things AREN'T nullified more potently just because you increase the scale. We also know that even if that is true and you would have to work harder... a competent user has a good percentage of being able to do so.... with a MERE THOUGHT and an INCOMPLETE IG he was able to pwn the UN. You give the user a complete IG and make him work really hard... he can overcome exponentially more if it was already that easy

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
^^^^ So you still have zero evidence that the nullification potency changes one bit. You keep on acting like I think the sphere's are the same in all areas, which I have never stated. Nullification is certainly nullification. Planets and people are nullified more just because you're nullifying a wider area. That defies common sense and on panel evidence. PLEASE POST ANY EVIDENCE THAT TALKS ABOUT THE NULLIFICATION PROPERITES CHANGING BASED ON SCALE. Nobody is saying that more energy is probably needed to do so (though this isn't on panel either) Lets say it does take more energy to do so... please show me this means things are nullified more potently. The more energy is needed because you're nullifying A LOT more things. Very simple and easy concept. I'm really not sure why this alludes you and others. If you have ANY evidence to the contrary please post it.

The fatal flaw in your premise and conclusion here is that Magus wouldn't have to stop (lets say a universe or 10 universes) from being nullified. He wouldn't care about those things. Thus he wouldn't have to resist said forces and energy. He ONLY has to resist what is trying to directly nullify him, not stop everything around him from being nullified. I'm surprised you made such a faulty argument in the first place ODG. All he magus or anybody needs to do is resist ONLY the energy directly going towards there nullification.

Lastly, as point out and the evidence is clearly in my corner here. Even if things are nullified more potently and more energy is needed to resist. We have an INCOMPLETE IG pwning a the UN nullification energies with a MERE THOUGHT. So we have a complete and utter stompage with the greatest of ease against nullification properties that don't vary. Scale and energy vary not the nullification potency itself. Thus, the on panel evidence suggest that a complete IG with somebody trying really hard would be able to exponentially rest more if it was that easy already.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
No. I'm looking at you with disbelief. Is this a tough concept for you to understand?

The MORE ENERGY doesn't increase NULLIFICATION POTENCY. Said more energy is needed because of the INCREASING SCALE. If more stuff is being nullified then of course more energy is needed. Is this a tough thing to grasp or something? Show me ONE shred of evidence that shows when you increase the scale objects are nullified to a greater effect i.e. with greater nullification forces. Please provide ANY evidence that suggest this. I'm not saying what you keep repeating ad naseum that they are the same... they aren't the same as one is nullifying a lot more. Yet, what remains the same is nullification is nullification and things weren't nullified in a more devasting manner. Not ONE shred of evidence saying so.

So you can be nullified in different ways... but all those different ways are all the same.

...

Since when did oxymorons and self-contradictions pass for arguments here?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"You can be nullified in different ways... but they're all the same."

This is your argument? Am I the only one looking at these arguments with a complete sense of disbelief?

Still not answering the question?

I'll ask you again.Can you prove that reed nullified the multiverse?Cuz you haven't yet.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The reality gem doesnt affect the power of the other gems at all. It is ONLY the power gem that has any bearing on the other gems, it amps them all up to universal scale power. You can see the difference between a power gem amped set of gems and the gems alone by comparing the feats achieved by Thanos with the IG and the members of Infinity Watch wielding individual gems.

The missing reality gem just meant that Magus had less versatility to his arsenal, it did NOT make the other gems any less powerful. It is ONLY the power gem that affects the other gems, it backs them up.

To re-direct energy it is ONLY the power gem that was required and that was present in the Gauntlet.

If it was the Power Gem that was missing, then u would have a case for saying that the IG is likely more powerful cos it amps all of the others up majorly. The Reality gem wasnt needed to redirect energy and its presence would not have made a difference to the abilities of the other gems.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Your physical form can be nullified. Your complete existence from reality can be nullified. Your physical form can be recreated.

[b]So you can be nullified in different ways... but all those different ways are all the same.

...

Since when did oxymorons and self-contradictions pass for arguments here? [/B]

Originally posted by Black bolt z
There are different ways to be nullified.But nif your nullfied your nullified.It doesn't matter how you were nullified you were still nullified.Get it yet?

You seriously don't see the contradiction here?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Still not answering the question?

I'll ask you again.Can you prove that reed nullified the multiverse?Cuz you haven't yet. It still doesn't make a difference.It manipulated it once and it can do it again.

Originally posted by Black bolt z

It still doesn't make a difference.It manipulated it once and it can do it again.

Huh?

How is that a relevant response to my post? A post i made to counter your point that the IG is more powerful than the UN because it was incomplete when it redirected the UN's energies.

I then told you why the missing power gem doesnt mean that the other gems were any less powerful and you said the above.

Makes no sense, but it doesnt matter. My point has been made and stands. 😬

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"All the [b]different ways to be nullified are all the same."

You seriously don't see the contradiction here? I actually have a post prepared. But you're seriously arguing that "all the different results are all the same"? You... you don't see the inherent contradiction there? [/B]

If you nullify their existance they are nullfied

If you nullfy their physicaly body they are nullified.Get it?

I already cleared this up but somehow you didn't get this.

So you still have to show that reed nullified the multiverse.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Huh?

How is that a relevant response to my post? A post i made to counter your point that the IG is more powerful than the UN because it was incomplete when it redirected the UN's energies.

I then told you why the missing power gem doesnt mean that the other gems were any less powerful and you said the above.

Makes no sense, but it doesnt matter. My point has been made and stands. 😬

What?

It means that with the reality gem the IG user can make the UN nullfication do nothing...or manipulate it some other way.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Really since when? You guys are trying to argue that ONE superior feat in ONE area (nullification) makes it superior to the IG. You're also trying to argue that Thanos couldn't resist a larger scale nullification with NO proof what-so-ever. What we do know is that things AREN'T nullified more potently just because you increase the scale. We also know that even if that is true and you would have to work harder... a competent user has a good percentage of being able to do so.... with a MERE THOUGHT and an INCOMPLETE IG he was able to pwn the UN. You give the user a complete IG and make him work really hard... he can overcome exponentially more if it was already that easy

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Odin has affected the multiverse...IG hasn't.IG beat all the cosmics of 616.So by your logic Odin is the most powerful being in 616.

Whilst i'll always believe the UN has more destructive power, but an IG wielder will win in a battle, i'm always changing my mind about whether the UN directly nullified reality, or the problem causing elements within reality.

Has the UN EVER been shown previously or since the Abraxas saga to have a resetting effect. i.e the ability to nullify something and straight away bring something back but amended?

Has it shown the ability to do anything but nullify something out of existence. If so what?

Thats the key to this debate.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
The things it can do to the UN increases with the reality gem.

What?

It means that with the reality gem the IG user can make the UN nullfication do nothing...or manipulate it some other way.

Thank you for supporting me. 🙂

Precisely my point. The absence of the reality gem merely reduced the versatility of the wielder. Meaning Magus had less ways of dealing with opposition.

However the reality gem doesnt affect the power of the other gems. The only gem that does that is the power gem. Therefore u cant argue that the IG is more powerful because it re-directed the UN blast without the reality gem. Its the power gem that was key to that. Its the power gem thats makes the other gems and therefore the gauntlet as a whole a universal power.

The reality gem on its own couldnt do shit against the UN. When coupled with the power gem it could. The power gem is the key and it was present.