Originally posted by carver9
Going by showings to me her reflexes just seems superior...especially if we reveiew the things that she has blocked throughout her history with her bracers. Flight, yes, I agree, supes is much faster.
but you haven't reviewed the majority of showings, so how can you make a fair judgment?
that's a false comparison and you know it. he doesn't catch things for the same reason she doesn't just stand there and let them bounce off her double d's: he doesn't need to block anything.
not to mention all the times he's flat out caught stuff.
the whole "usain bolt bruce lee" thing is something the writer brought up on a forum and decided to stick in a comic to have the last say.
i wasn't talking about flight. at all.
The problem there is that Superman's speed isn't applied in a direct line, as comparison of Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee, but is applied to all of his actions. Wonder Woman may or may not actually react to a combat situation more instinctively, however, as stated, Superman holds an undisputed speed advantage that also applicable also in direct ratio to his mental abilities to facilitate a best course of action, then to apply it. This makes the statement on her 'reaction speed' due to 'instinct' a blank one at best, when applied to a model.
As such, in their more recent encounters [neither of which really accurately telling us who might win in a fight] observations would tell us that Wonder Woman has to use every advantage she can possibly muster to present, be it mystical weaponry, kryptonite or guerrilla tactics to present a challenge to the kryptonian in combat. And otherwise can't quite handle the quite apparent speed and strength gap between the two rather than more-so seemingly.. holding on the for the ride.
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Superman is a hummingbird. Thanos is a human with a M-16.The speed of Sups isn't a factor here.
You'd be better off trying to hit the hummingbird by using the gun as a club.
Using this analogy while Superman can't hurt Thanos Thanos also can't hurt Superman. So speed is a factor. Using this analogy.
Originally posted by Mindset
And Thanos has a flamethrower. sneer
See, THAT would have been a good analogy.
Originally posted by Juntai
The problem there is that Superman's speed isn't applied in a direct line, as comparison of Usain Bolt or Bruce Lee, but is applied to all of his actions. Wonder Woman may or may not actually react to a combat situation more instinctively, however, as stated, Superman holds an undisputed speed advantage that also applicable also in direct ratio to his mental abilities to facilitate a best course of action, then to apply it. This makes the statement on her 'reaction speed' due to 'instinct' a blank one at best, when applied to a model.As such, in their more recent encounters [neither of which really accurately telling us who might win in a fight] observations would tell us that Wonder Woman has to use every advantage she can possibly muster to present, be it mystical weaponry, kryptonite or guerrilla tactics to present a challenge to the kryptonian in combat. And otherwise can't quite handle the quite apparent speed and strength gap between the two rather than more-so seemingly.. holding on the for the ride.
you do have a point that i agree on: the vagueness of her instinctual reactions isn't exactly a positive in her favour.
In all honesty I think they're about equal when it comes to reflexes. She's got an edge in skill and agility, he has one in strength/durability and reach (being bigger and all). But that's purely imo...
It's in Superman's character to play to the level of his competition.
They've not done a great job in telling us 'why' exactly this is though they've tried a few times, but it's been beaten into us for a great many years. As is the idea that when he pushes it, Superman is on a clearly different level than his peers. And no, I don't mean just having a heroic moment.
These examples of 'Thanos beat [x character] who beat [y character] who I feel feat-wise is right up with Superman' aren't quite as profound when blankly stated. Batman has defeated a group of Parademons with kungfu kicks and strikes. Orion has struggled with Parademons before. -- Are we to then conclude that Batman's kung-fu clears the gap between a human and Orion? Do you really want to play the I beat this character who beat this character game with Superman, who's defeated almost anyone where is to defeat?
Superman has straight up battled gods and demons, and unlike the Titan, who we are supposed to be impressed with merely standing at the end of a conflict, come out as the victor. Yes, Superman gets slapped up more, but that's an effect of his choosing. He can take it.
Originally posted by Juntai
JLA Classified 15.So this alien is screwing up the entire JLA and has been making every one of them look real bad...
Alien: Are you read for more?
Supes: Actually, I think I'm ready to stop playing with you. (who starts climbing to his feet.)Alien: Playing? I've beaten you half to death.
Supes: Not even close. I needed to measure your power and get a handle on what's really happening here. And that took time. So I just soaked up your punches while I worked it all out.
Supes: You see I'm not human. My eyes, for instance, work very diferently. There was a flicker on everything. All the surfaces in here, including yours, cycle 512 times a second. The others would never see that. But I do. Just as I can see and hear all the communications traffic moving around. Finding the frequencies took time.
Supes: I am a scientists son of the House of El. And I am a reporter. And while I may not be as quick at pattern recognition as my wife, I'm not completely stupid. Given time, I can find my way into any story. And this is just a story. Make-believe. You pushed your little stunt just a hair too far, and I saw through it.
Supes: You're strong. Your strategy programming is clever and complex. And you have absolutely no concept of the sanctity of organic life. (Supes then uses heat vision to burn off the aliens right arm.)
Supes: All these things make you a powerful, frightening enemy. But I'm Superman. And everything that's making your stunt work is broadcasting at 18 terahertz. You ever heard white noise at 18 terahertz?
The next pannel is of Supes open mouthed.. and the aliens face melting..
Its illusions fall and it turns out to be a giant robot.. Superman punches its chest and detonates it.
That said, Superman would likely lose the first couple encounters with a character like Thanos, as he did with Darkseid. Getting closer and closer each time. Once he felt where he stood, Supes would move beyond that when encountering the character, and it would be up to Thanos to come up with ways to remove the gap even temporarily, which I've no doubt that he could to create an interesting match.
Straight up though? Suggesting Thanos is more powerful than Superman is holds no more weight than saying Darkseid is, based upon a performance of peers.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Try to shoot a Hummingbird with an M-16. Or any gun besides a wide-scatter shotgun.You'd be better off trying to hit the hummingbird by using the gun as a club.
Using this analogy while Superman can't hurt Thanos Thanos also can't hurt Superman. So speed [b]is
a factor. Using this analogy. [/B]
Originally posted by MindsetMuch better analogy.
And Thanos has a flamethrower. sneer
Originally posted by JuntaiName one character as powerfull as Odin that SM has defeated in a straight up fight with his own powers, no prep, no amp and no help. The SM rises to the challenge theory is just a fallacy. But it is true that the characters that thanos has crushed and people mention aren't, for the most part, 'peers' with SM, they're mostly above him, some of them by a good deal. SM is a high herald, he's not a trans level character.
It's in Superman's character to play to the level of his competition.They've not done a great job in telling us 'why' exactly this is though they've tried a few times, but it's been beaten into us for a great many years. As is the idea that when he pushes it, Superman is on a clearly different level than his peers. And no, I don't mean just having a heroic moment.
These examples of 'Thanos beat [x character] who beat [y character] who I feel feat-wise is right up with Superman' aren't quite as profound when blankly stated. Batman has defeated a group of Parademons with kungfu kicks and strikes. Orion has struggled with Parademons before. -- Are we to then conclude that Batman's kung-fu clears the gap between a human and Orion? Do you really want to play the I beat this character who beat this character game with Superman, who's defeated almost anyone where is to defeat?
Superman has straight up battled gods and demons, and unlike the Titan, who we are supposed to be impressed with merely standing at the end of a conflict, come out as the victor. Yes, Superman gets slapped up more, but that's an effect of his choosing. He can take it.
Straight up though? Suggesting Thanos is more powerful than Superman is holds no more weight than saying Darkseid is, based upon a performance of peers.
I don't see how it exists to any greater extent than what happens to any other title heroe. Writers make dramatic stories about heroic effort all the time, for all characters. His highest end feats reach into the trans class, but this is true of most high eralds. He isn't in a different class from his 'peers', which is what people usually claim when they they use this theory, that if he wants to do something, whatever it is, he does it.
Originally posted by 753
I don't see how it exists to any greater extent than what happens to any other title heroe. Writers make dramatic stories about heroic effort all the time, for all characters. His highest end feats reach into the trans class, but this is true of most high eralds. He isn't in a different class from his 'peers', which is what people usually claim when they they use this theory, that if he wants to do something, whatever it is, he does it.
Because it's made mention of more than most heroes, and there's also a greater difference between base superman and "rise to the challenge" superman.
it's a stated part of his powers and his abilities. he has dynamic powers. if you disagree, fine, but there is plenty of evidence to support the position that it is as such.
Originally posted by 753
Name one character as powerfull as Odin that SM has defeated in a straight up fight with his own powers, no prep, no amp and no help. The SM rises to the challenge theory is just a fallacy. But it is true that the characters that thanos has crushed and people mention aren't, for the most part, 'peers' with SM, they're mostly above him, some of them by a good deal. SM is a high herald, he's not a trans level character.
Originally posted by BobbyDYou fail to realize the importance of speed. Speed trumps all things.
Dude, he can be physical bludgeoned to death to the point of exhaustion/collapse, which is exactly what DD did to him. Thanos is most certainly capable of this. ...especially with "regular" Clark. Now don't get me wrong, I like Supes as much as the next guy, in fact he is my favorite, and everyone that enjoys superheroe comics owes it's creator and the comic book hero a debt of gratitude for there wouldn't be any such thing as comics if it weren't for big blue.On to the topic.....
The best possible scenario I can envision for a "regular" SM win is for him to witness Thanos snapping Lois'es neck like a twig. Then we have a Superman with no holds barred. This is a Superman to be reckoned with. ....one who is actually thinking death to his opponent, w/o his heart getting in the way. ....one where hundreds of planet busting punches are being thrown per second, simultaneously combined with hundreds of streams of heat vision from every conceivable angle. That is a SM I would like to see in this type of fight against Thanos. Now, Thanos might, and I still caution it by using the word "might" have a problem. Even then he could only be KO'd.
..just my opinion.
If Superman can move more than 5ft before Thanos can move 1 inch then how in the hell can Thanos defend himself? Superman needs to only hit Thanos once to win. Once he does that Superman will hit him again before the stun effect wears off and renew the stun. This will continue until Thanos is koed. This is the combo to ko principle.
Lastly, if Superman didn't attack first then there is no way for Thanos to hit Superman. Superman can dodge, vibrate, and seemingly teleport out of the way and to different spots on the battlefield (including behind Thanos).
Thanos being highly resistant to energy projection doesn't mean he is equally resistant to physical blunt force attacks. Energy projection has burning properties to them. A flame resistant jacket isn't also bulletproof.
Originally posted by h1a8
You fail to realize the importance of speed. Speed trumps all things.If Superman can move more than 5ft before Thanos can move 1 inch then how in the hell can Thanos defend himself? Superman needs to only hit Thanos once to win. Once he does that Superman will hit him again before the stun effect wears off and renew the stun. This will continue until Thanos is koed. This is the combo to ko principle.
Lastly, if Superman didn't attack first then there is no way for Thanos to hit Superman. Superman can dodge, vibrate, and seemingly teleport out of the way and to different spots on the battlefield (including behind Thanos).
Thanos being highly resistant to energy projection doesn't mean he is equally resistant to physical blunt force attacks. Energy projection has burning properties to them. A flame resistant jacket isn't also bulletproof.
how can you be sure thanos is that slow?
Originally posted by 753Thanos fight against Odin is PIS. Odin portrayed throughout his career should dog walk Thanos the same way Firelord should dogwalk Spider-man.
Name one character as powerfull as Odin that SM has defeated in a straight up fight with his own powers, no prep, no amp and no help. The SM rises to the challenge theory is just a fallacy. But it is true that the characters that thanos has crushed and people mention aren't, for the most part, 'peers' with SM, they're mostly above him, some of them by a good deal. SM is a high herald, he's not a trans level character.
Originally posted by -Pr-I didn't claim he is slow, just slow enough to not be able to put up a defense against Superman.
how can you be sure thanos is that slow?
For example, if someone can move as fast as a bullet literally then they are certainly not slow, but very fast. But they are still a statue to Superman.
