Originally posted by h1a8
Superman needs to only hit Thanos once to win. Once he does that Superman will hit him again before the stun effect wears off and renew the stun. This will continue until Thanos is koed. This is the combo to ko principle.
You nearly comboed me to KO of the chair in laughter there 😂
Originally posted by 753Only by forum misconception.
Name one character as powerfull as Odin that SM has defeated in a straight up fight with his own powers, no prep, no amp and no help. The SM rises to the challenge theory is just a fallacy. But it is true that the characters that thanos has crushed and people mention aren't, for the most part, 'peers' with SM, they're mostly above him, some of them by a good deal. SM is a high herald, he's not a trans level character.
You have to remember that canonically Superman and Doomsday are the only two to ever truly beat Darkseid in combat. Orion did it, but Darkseid took a dive on purpose as you found out a few issues later. The rest of his defeats were retconned into avatars or Desaad[in fact, all but Superman's later wins were really retconned into being Desaad on panel iirc, so the avatar comment could really only be applied to . .Doomsday. .but that's a debate for another time]. That's why Darkseid has a hard-on for Superman.
Darkseid is considered to be more powerful than the conventional gods, defeated countless ones himself.. and clashes with Darkseid and his forces highlight the difference between Superman and his 'peers'. For instance; Darkseid could knock out all five Furies with a slap, but those same Furies held back Wonder Woman and Barda, meanwhile Superman straight owned Darkseid.
DC's Odin once straight up admitted that he, and Asgard were no match for Darkseid. DC's Odin once created a universe/dimension under his own power in a JSA story. Odin, although less heralded and appearing less often- is a peer of Zues so likewise when Spectre visited Zues on his quest to find God in volume 3, Zues was pondering about the creation and destruction of entire realities.
The Quintessence and Linear Men once got together and decided that Superman was too powerful of a being to exist, and were going to put him on trial. He's too powerful to exist, but others are not..?
Later, they decided to create a being to take on Superman, and combining their efforts- created Gog, immensely powerful. Believed to be nearly if not more powerful than they were individually. Phantom Stranger actually did man up and help to bring to help out his defeat by aiding the heros[mostly to protect hypertime]. Although Superman didn't defeat Gog alone at the end of the story, it speaks volumes of where he's considered.
Guardian of the Universe have referred to Superman as "Godlike", Pantheon Gods and such most often speak to Clark as if he were a peer.
Hal Jordan once made a cocky comment about being able to beat anyone in the JLA, Superman included. Later in a much more realistic talk with a friend, he stated that if Superman truly went turned his back on goodness, it might take the entire GLC and more to stop him. And this was when the Rings were much more ridiculous than now. That -is- however, just a comment. I just wanted to add it.
Superman once defeated Blaze in her own Dimension. As we know her now- she is the Lord . .err.. Lady of Hell, as of Reign in Hell, having usurped Neron of the responsibility. However, back when Superman defeated her, she was the 'Godess of Death" and considered infinitely powerful in her own dimension.
In OWAW, Superman became the first being to ever destroy an Imperiex Probe- in one of the issues, we learned than army of thousands of solar-powered Daxamites couldn't even -dent- one [Peers? Hah.]. The Fortess of Solitude infused Eradicator, of crazy power himself flew from the edge of the universe to Earth in a couple of panels from it, scared shitless to warn them the hand of god was coming to destroy everyone.. ..A couple heros ended up defeating others later in the story, though mostly with circumstance- Aquaman used Poseidon's Trident, one was a clone of Superman himself, etc etc. A full on blast from one of these things could vaporize a solar system. Superman survived it easily. Later, Superman is cutting through dozens of them like paper.
Although it was admittedly kind of cheesy the way he did it, Superman was the one who defeated Megaddon, once Batman convinced him to do it.. while he was enslaved. He simply snapped out of it and defeated the creature/weapon. For reference, Mageddon is said to be the weapon that destroyed the "Old Gods" or Third World Gods in the New Gods stories. Double Reference; One of the Third World Gods recently appeared in JSA. His name was Gog. With his power, he could grant wishes and change reality pretty much on a whim. Mageddon destroyed a giant sized planet of these beings? Not a match for a determined Superman when people need him.
Not to say that implies his strength or that he's clearly more powerful than all of those involved, but in the Emperor Joker storyline, Joker changed the laws of the universe entirely, overpowered the gods, the quintessence, even had The Spectre trapped. The only person who could consistently, though will alone, break this new vision of reality, and simply could not be contained or stopped for a length of time, was Superman. It eventually brought about his defeat.
I could do this most of the morning probably.
But I believe the question you -should- ask is much closer, is who has THANOS clearly defeated, minus circumstance, or plotting, in straight frontal combat, that is more powerful than Superman and his upper tier of enemies. Superman has defeated gods and demons in their own realm, with power, Thanos eats dirt over and over when he tries the same.
Superman stared down, and backed down - The Black Racer when it came to take Steel. Made death itself back down.
When Darkseid fell in Final Crisis, he created a impenetrable singularity that was breaking down time and space across the multiverse[though the Flashes realized if they ran at ultimate speed, they could phase through it, as they seemingly can all objects, dimensions, time, etc.], Superman on his way back into the story from the events of Superman Beyond, flew in, downing Darkseid's militia, led by a ALE-controlled Wonder Woman on his way with a blast of heat vision, simply punched open the singularity as if it were nothing but a nuisance, like the cardboard doors on The Ultimate Fighter show and helped to finish off Darkseid himself.
--just to add a couple more before I log.
Seriously, Superman stepping it up in a time of need is not equal to the typical hero last ditch effort scenario. It's his character. Over and over again.
Originally posted by Juntai
But I believe the question you -should- ask is much closer, is who has THANOS clearly defeated, minus circumstance, or plotting, in straight frontal combat, that is more powerful than Superman and his upper tier of enemies. Superman has defeated gods and demons in their own realm, with power, Thanos eats dirt over and over when he tries the same.
Hes owned Thor and Thing. He completely owned Silver Surfer not saying SS is more powerful but hes defintely comparable. Also Superman needed help from Batman to beat Maggeddon.
You got alot of examples there but I'm pretty sure there are lots that contradict that, and I'm not talking about low showings eg gas station.
Originally posted by Juntai
Only by forum misconception.You have to remember that canonically Superman and Doomsday are the only two to ever truly beat Darkseid in combat. Orion did it, but Darkseid took a dive on purpose as you found out a few issues later. The rest of his defeats were retconned into avatars or Desaad[in fact, all but Superman's later wins were really retconned into being Desaad on panel iirc, so the avatar comment could really only be applied to . .Doomsday. .but that's a debate for another time]. That's why Darkseid has a hard-on for Superman.
Darkseid is considered to be more powerful than the conventional gods, defeated countless ones himself.. and clashes with Darkseid and his forces highlight the difference between Superman and his 'peers'. For instance; Darkseid could knock out all five Furies with a slap, but those same Furies held back Wonder Woman and Barda, meanwhile Superman straight owned Darkseid.
DC's Odin once straight up admitted that he, and Asgard were no match for Darkseid. DC's Odin once created a universe/dimension under his own power in a JSA story. Odin, although less heralded and appearing less often- is a peer of Zues so likewise when Spectre visited Zues on his quest to find God in volume 3, Zues was pondering about the creation and destruction of entire realities.
The Quintessence and Linear Men once got together and decided that Superman was too powerful of a being to exist, and were going to put him on trial. He's too powerful to exist, but others are not..?
Later, they decided to create a being to take on Superman, and combining their efforts- created Gog, immensely powerful. Believed to be nearly if not more powerful than they were individually. Phantom Stranger actually did man up and help to bring to help out his defeat by aiding the heros[mostly to protect hypertime]. Although Superman didn't defeat Gog alone at the end of the story, it speaks volumes of where he's considered.
Guardian of the Universe have referred to Superman as "Godlike", Pantheon Gods and such most often speak to Clark as if he were a peer.
Hal Jordan once made a cocky comment about being able to beat anyone in the JLA, Superman included. Later in a much more realistic talk with a friend, he stated that if Superman truly went turned his back on goodness, it might take the entire GLC and more to stop him. And this was when the Rings were much more ridiculous than now. That -is- however, just a comment. I just wanted to add it.
Superman once defeated Blaze in her own Dimension. As we know her now- she is the Lord . .err.. Lady of Hell, as of Reign in Hell, having usurped Neron of the responsibility. However, back when Superman defeated her, she was the 'Godess of Death" and considered infinitely powerful in her own dimension.
In OWAW, Superman became the first being to ever destroy an Imperiex Probe- in one of the issues, we learned than army of thousands of solar-powered Daxamites couldn't even -dent- one [Peers? Hah.]. The Fortess of Solitude infused Eradicator, of crazy power himself flew from the edge of the universe to Earth in a couple of panels from it, scared shitless to warn them the hand of god was coming to destroy everyone.. ..A couple heros ended up defeating others later in the story, though mostly with circumstance- Aquaman used Poseidon's Trident, one was a clone of Superman himself, etc etc. A full on blast from one of these things could vaporize a solar system. Superman survived it easily. Later, Superman is cutting through dozens of them like paper.
Although it was admittedly kind of cheesy the way he did it, Superman was the one who defeated Megaddon, once Batman convinced him to do it.. while he was enslaved. He simply snapped out of it and defeated the creature/weapon. For reference, Mageddon is said to be the weapon that destroyed the "Old Gods" or Third World Gods in the New Gods stories. Double Reference; One of the Third World Gods recently appeared in JSA. His name was Gog. With his power, he could grant wishes and change reality pretty much on a whim. Mageddon destroyed a giant sized planet of these beings? Not a match for a determined Superman when people need him.
Not to say that implies his strength or that he's clearly more powerful than all of those involved, but in the Emperor Joker storyline, Joker changed the laws of the universe entirely, overpowered the gods, the quintessence, even had The Spectre trapped. The only person who could consistently, though will alone, break this new vision of reality, and simply could not be contained or stopped for a length of time, was Superman. It eventually brought about his defeat.
I could do this most of the morning probably.
But I believe the question you -should- ask is much closer, is who has THANOS clearly defeated, minus circumstance, or plotting, in straight frontal combat, that is more powerful than Superman and his upper tier of enemies. Superman has defeated gods and demons in their own realm, with power, Thanos eats dirt over and over when he tries the same.
Good post juanti, very good post. Your knowledge of the character is amazing.
Have a question though.
If the imperiex probes was as powerful as you claim them to be... why was the probe in space building a device to destroy earth. If it was so powerful... it could have done it under its own power instead of prepping. This was confirmed when superman and mongul confronted the being in space.
Can't comment on the rest of your post... its all on point... and that is the reason I am one of the ones to state that superman would give thanos hell.
Originally posted by DeadlineIf it wasn't what you were implying, don't mention it.
Hes owned Thor and Thing. He completely owned Silver Surfer not saying SS is more powerful but hes defintely comparable. Also Superman needed help from Batman to beat Maggeddon.You got alot of examples there but I'm pretty sure there are lots that contradict that, and I'm not talking about low showings eg gas station.
The gas station was depowered Superman in 1992, nearly two decades ago. Hardly applies to current Superman.
Superman didn't begin getting powerful again until after his 'ressurection', in our time-line anyways. In DC time-line, we're to assume now they've just always been this powerful, as they seem to be 'current powered' whenever they flash-back to something from that era.
Not to mention low showings, or to say he's clearly more powerful, but Superman would put Surfer in a half-nelson and he couldn't do sh!t about it. See what I did there?
I'm playing of course.
I hope you understand this was a discussion of reference to what I said a couple of pages ago. I was replying to a reply about how well documented it is that Superman plays to the level of his competition, and once he has it, rises above it. And not in the tradition hero last-ditch effort sort of way, and that it's just his character. The character I was describing above in my rather long-winded post are what Superman is capable of when he begins letting go of his need to play on the level of others. He often takes a beating simply because he can; I already showed how he does this rather specifically in an issue of JLA Classified back on that same page.
For the record.
I don't believe Thanos is more powerful than Darkseid, quite the contrary in fact, and Superman has treated him like a rag-doll when they meet for years, because he already has his measure and knows how to push it to that level.
My previous post suggested that judging by his character history Thanos would probably slap up Superman good in their first meeting or two, or maybe three, but once he had his measure, Thanos would need his brain to stay in the fight against a physically dominant and focused Clark, and even then could likely keep it interesting, given his intellect.
Originally posted by Bentley
Everything Juntai said and Superman is still defeated by the Blue Marvel kinda
I truly do not understand why you do not think that blue marvel can pull some wins when it was stated by writers that bue marvel and supes are equals. Sentry showings are amazing as well but he still got one shotted by blue marvel. Then we have blue marvel tossing an amulet almost ripping a moon in half and then we have the watcher commenting on how powerful blue marvel is.
Originally posted by carver9
I truly do not understand why you do not think that blue marvel can pull some wins when it was stated by writers that bue marvel and supes are equals. Sentry showings are amazing as well but he still got one shotted by blue marvel. Then we have blue marvel tossing an amulet almost ripping a moon in half and then we have the watcher commenting on how powerful blue marvel is.
Originally posted by carver9It's been quite a while since I pulled the issues out of boxes and read them, but you have to remember the character was an homage to Galactus. Devourer of Worlds/Devourer of Galaxies, Probes/Heralds, comparisons abound. The moment is nothing short of Galactus similarly putting together his machine to devour a world , or even other arrays of tech to do things he can already do[like when he busted out the tech-gun to hit ego with fire. lol.].
Good post juanti, very good post. Your knowledge of the character is amazing.Have a question though.
If the imperiex probes was as powerful as you claim them to be... why was the probe in space building a device to destroy earth. If it was so powerful... it could have done it under its own power instead of prepping. This was confirmed when superman and mongul confronted the being in space.
Can't comment on the rest of your post... its all on point... and that is the reason I am one of the ones to state that superman would give thanos hell.
It was said a single probe could annihilate a galaxy in a matter of hours.
Originally posted by The Nuul
So, when has Supes ever used Combo to KO before in a comic? He hasnt. Its a made up tactic that some fanboys thought of because they dont know what CIS means.
facepalm
he has. in a huge amount of his fights. just not at super-speed most of the time.
Originally posted by carver9
I have proven this statement wrong on so many of occassions. I read the comic and ALWAYS provide scans proving this buuuut, you all tend to ignore this.
reading =/= understanding. 😛
Originally posted by Estacado
Comparing Darkseid to Thanos is laughable.Ds gets his ass whooped by Orion and even in Fc he had to cheat to bring Superman down.
Old Ds was cool now he is a joke.
Also what are you talking about with Final Crisis? They didn't even fight in FC.