Originally posted by The Nuul
H1 makes it sound like a damn video game. Its not the strength I am talking about its the STR + SPD right off them bell. That I dont think he will do.
of course not.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Yeah. Most likely. But even then there's no indication he could or couldn't have beaten Superman without the Kryptonite, only that it was preferable to needlessly slugging it out with him.
aye.
I have to take back one item, it was Prime who defeated the Daxamites, and to farther correct, it was 100000 of them.
First it was referenced and that's why I was thinking Probe, as originally we were led to believe this was Imperiex himself, and even looked like him. I'd forgotten about the extra issue detailing the history of Imperiex Prime. Was one of the rare moments he showed up himself.
Everything else stands true. Single Probes were in fact quite devastating though regardless though, their feats are nothing short of amazing themselves.
Originally posted by Juntai
I have to take back one item, it was Prime who defeated the Daxamites, and to farther correct, it was 100000 of them.First it was referenced and that's why I was thinking Probe, as originally we were led to believe this was Imperiex himself, and even looked like him. I'd forgotten about the extra issue detailing the history of Imperiex Prime. Was one of the rare moments he showed up himself.
Everything else stands true. Single Probes were in fact quite devastating though regardless though, their feats are nothing short of amazing themselves.
that, and it was plainly stated that on earth superman was actually challenged by them too.
Originally posted by Estacado
I still dont see Orion beating Thanos in h2h who just whooped Marvell.
Originally posted by Omega VisionYou mean the one in Countdown, relative[albiet loosely] to Death of the New Gods, where The Source resurrected the dead Orion[who died fighting Infinity Man?] and had him kill Darkseid as his will, just to fulfill the prophecy?
That was Countdown. And as I said it wasn't like DS got humiliated, he and Orion fought like animals and in the end Orion fulfilled his destiny and killed Darkseid.
I don't think that can hardly count as a low showing. That's essentially divine intervention. the creator made it happen. lol.
Coincidentally, Thanos had his heart ripped out too, by a guy destined to do it.
Hmm.
I don't see Drax beating Darkseid.
Originally posted by EstacadoYeah because the way it sent Mr Miracle to oblivion[or was that the ALE? note to self to re-read] or what it did to Batman, or how Wonder Woman pleaded with him not to annihilate War World with it, or how it helped Superman destroy Imperiex's shell, are all things Cyclops could do.
Maybe....still the Oe used to one shot almost anyone now its just a weak eye beam.
That shows how much respect Ds lost.
Quit low-balling in the thread just for the sake of it. Make a real case or drop it.
Originally posted by EstacadoCoincidentally, OWAW was before it hurt the Spectre in volume 4. 😉
Or like it had almost no effect on either Superman or Orion in Cd.
Supes has been resisting it like nothing since OWAW before it could heart Spectre...
Also, Superman doesn't count, it was already stated that it doesn't work on him the same on panel. True or not, Superman simple overpowers him, which is what this thread is about anyways, how him being above Darkseid, is an evidence of the same way he'll surpass Thanos.
Orion in Countdown was resurrected by the Source to fulfill the prophecy, not applicable, Orion was a tool of the creator at that time. We just went over this a moment ago. You forget already?
Like I said, don't come into the thread just to troll your hate. Make a clear concise case, and I'll clearly concisely smash it for you.
Originally posted by batdude123I sneak in to remind everyone now and then. 😉
I love how people are acting like the shit Juntai is saying is ground-breaking news. People fail to realize that Superman has constantly out-performed other top tiers, quite blatantly, for the past decade now.The ignorance on this board is pretty unbecoming.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's been quite a while since I pulled the issues out of boxes and read them, but you have to remember the character was an homage to Galactus. Devourer of Worlds/Devourer of Galaxies, Probes/Heralds, comparisons abound. The moment is nothing short of Galactus similarly putting together his machine to devour a world , or even other arrays of tech to do things he can already do[like when he busted out the tech-gun to hit ego with fire. lol.].It was said a single probe could annihilate a galaxy in a matter of hours.
I agree with this but I just don't think that it is good to use the probes as evidence of someones power level. You have one probe running through the jla like they were nothing while at the same time you have a probe struggling to take out a weak supergirl and black lightning.
I wasn't impressed by the probes and they really didn't do anything power wise to make me believe that they could level a planet. That is the reason the probe was building on that machine... to accomplish something that it couldn't replicate (even though it was still powerful).
This still doesn't take away from the fact that thanos would have a hard time against supes.
Originally posted by batdude123kinda
I love how people are acting like the shit Juntai is saying is ground-breaking news. People fail to realize that Superman has constantly out-performed other top tiers, quite blatantly, for the past decade now.The ignorance on this board is pretty unbecoming.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ So in other words, Thanos wins? mhmm
Originally posted by JuntaiNo offense Juntai, but jobbing and PIS are supposed to be left out of these forums. DS has been watered down and jobbed to SM for years. Most people see this as DS descending to new and embarassing lows, not as SM stepping it up. The reason? DS forgets his own powerset to lose.
Only by forum misconception.You have to remember that canonically Superman and Doomsday are the only two to ever truly beat Darkseid in combat. Orion did it, but Darkseid took a dive on purpose as you found out a few issues later. The rest of his defeats were retconned into avatars or Desaad[in fact, all but Superman's later wins were really retconned into being Desaad on panel iirc, so the avatar comment could really only be applied to . .Doomsday. .but that's a debate for another time]. That's why Darkseid has a hard-on for Superman.
Darkseid is considered to be more powerful than the conventional gods, defeated countless ones himself.. and clashes with Darkseid and his forces highlight the difference between Superman and his 'peers'. For instance; Darkseid could knock out all five Furies with a slap, but those same Furies held back Wonder Woman and Barda, meanwhile Superman straight owned Darkseid.
DC's Odin once straight up admitted that he, and Asgard were no match for Darkseid. DC's Odin once created a universe/dimension under his own power in a JSA story. Odin, although less heralded and appearing less often- is a peer of Zues so likewise when Spectre visited Zues on his quest to find God in volume 3, Zues was pondering about the creation and destruction of entire realities.
The Quintessence and Linear Men once got together and decided that Superman was too powerful of a being to exist, and were going to put him on trial. He's too powerful to exist, but others are not..?
Later, they decided to create a being to take on Superman, and combining their efforts- created Gog, immensely powerful. Believed to be nearly if not more powerful than they were individually. Phantom Stranger actually did man up and help to bring to help out his defeat by aiding the heros[mostly to protect hypertime]. Although Superman didn't defeat Gog alone at the end of the story, it speaks volumes of where he's considered.
Guardian of the Universe have referred to Superman as "Godlike", Pantheon Gods and such most often speak to Clark as if he were a peer.
Hal Jordan once made a cocky comment about being able to beat anyone in the JLA, Superman included. Later in a much more realistic talk with a friend, he stated that if Superman truly went turned his back on goodness, it might take the entire GLC and more to stop him. And this was when the Rings were much more ridiculous than now. That -is- however, just a comment. I just wanted to add it.
Superman once defeated Blaze in her own Dimension. As we know her now- she is the Lord . .err.. Lady of Hell, as of Reign in Hell, having usurped Neron of the responsibility. However, back when Superman defeated her, she was the 'Godess of Death" and considered infinitely powerful in her own dimension.
In OWAW, Superman became the first being to ever destroy an Imperiex Probe- in one of the issues, we learned than army of thousands of solar-powered Daxamites couldn't even -dent- one [Peers? Hah.]. The Fortess of Solitude infused Eradicator, of crazy power himself flew from the edge of the universe to Earth in a couple of panels from it, scared shitless to warn them the hand of god was coming to destroy everyone.. ..A couple heros ended up defeating others later in the story, though mostly with circumstance- Aquaman used Poseidon's Trident, one was a clone of Superman himself, etc etc. A full on blast from one of these things could vaporize a solar system. Superman survived it easily. Later, Superman is cutting through dozens of them like paper.
Although it was admittedly kind of cheesy the way he did it, Superman was the one who defeated Megaddon, once Batman convinced him to do it.. while he was enslaved. He simply snapped out of it and defeated the creature/weapon. For reference, Mageddon is said to be the weapon that destroyed the "Old Gods" or Third World Gods in the New Gods stories. Double Reference; One of the Third World Gods recently appeared in JSA. His name was Gog. With his power, he could grant wishes and change reality pretty much on a whim. Mageddon destroyed a giant sized planet of these beings? Not a match for a determined Superman when people need him.
Not to say that implies his strength or that he's clearly more powerful than all of those involved, but in the Emperor Joker storyline, Joker changed the laws of the universe entirely, overpowered the gods, the quintessence, even had The Spectre trapped. The only person who could consistently, though will alone, break this new vision of reality, and simply could not be contained or stopped for a length of time, was Superman. It eventually brought about his defeat.
I could do this most of the morning probably.
But I believe the question you -should- ask is much closer, is who has THANOS clearly defeated, minus circumstance, or plotting, in straight frontal combat, that is more powerful than Superman and his upper tier of enemies. Superman has defeated gods and demons in their own realm, with power, Thanos eats dirt over and over when he tries the same.
The pattern follows suit with most of the other truly impressive characters you listed. There is always some heavy context or outright PIS involved - usually in the form of villains blundering moronically.
WW has taken out skyfathers in their realms. Thor has defetated a creature the Elder Gods shit themselves in fear of. SS has killed 2 abstracts, individually as powefull as Galactus. Nova defeated a literally omnipotent being. So what? They're heroes. They rise up and save the day. But they are not on these creatures' level of power. They exploit circumstances and cut loose for that final mile to make a compelling story with a dramatic heroic moment. It serves the plot.
SM is not above the other high heralds and without amps he is below characters that Thanos has defeated. Even if one could debate whether or not SS is one of them. Thanos also defeated The Maker and Lord Mar-vell.
It would take the entire GLC to stop him? Seriously? Do you think SM could rise up and take Odin? Mephisto? Highfather? Phantom Stranger? Galactus? He can't. He's a microbe. It's this type of beliefs that provoke so much antagonism to the character in the froums BTW. "SM is like true love! he'll conquer all!" No, just no.