Originally posted by King Castle
the question should be if you are likening Phantom stranger to Odin, thanos and any other high herald, trans or skyther/abstract?
From what I have seen of Thanos, i don't consider him to be in the same bracket as Odin. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Phantom Stranger's powers aren't in question.
Originally posted by -Pr-Of course not. He's a bug to them too. I'm taking issue with the logic he's using. This discussion started when Juntai stated SM has fought gods and demons and has actual victories against them to show for instead of just standing up in the end of the conflict - a reference to people citing thanos's fight with Odin as a feat for thanos. I then asked for a character on odin's level that SM defeated without context, amp, help, prep or wahtever. Just a straight fight.
Are you likening Thanos to Odin or Phantom Stranger?
I still doubt SM takes a majority from Thanos even if he knows the character. I don't think the SS would fare better either. No single high herald should take thanos (or DS without the PIS) for a majority.
Originally posted by 753
Come again?
Superman didn't defeat him, but he did tank his best shot. At the same time the Quintessence were afraid to face Gog as Phantom Stranger pointed out he had actually surpassed their combined power.
Originally posted by Juntai
It's in Superman's character to play to the level of his competition.They've not done a great job in telling us 'why' exactly this is though they've tried a few times, but it's been beaten into us for a great many years. As is the idea that when he pushes it, Superman is on a clearly different level than his peers. And no, I don't mean just having a heroic moment.
These examples of 'Thanos beat [x character] who beat [y character] who I feel feat-wise is right up with Superman' aren't quite as profound when blankly stated. Batman has defeated a group of Parademons with kungfu kicks and strikes. Orion has struggled with Parademons before. -- Are we to then conclude that Batman's kung-fu clears the gap between a human and Orion? Do you really want to play the I beat this character who beat this character game with Superman, who's defeated almost anyone where is to defeat?
Superman has straight up battled gods and demons, and unlike the Titan, who we are supposed to be impressed with merely standing at the end of a conflict, come out as the victor. Yes, Superman gets slapped up more, but that's an effect of his choosing. He can take it.
That said, Superman would likely lose the first couple encounters with a character like Thanos, as he did with Darkseid. Getting closer and closer each time. Once he felt where he stood, Supes would move beyond that when encountering the character, and it would be up to Thanos to come up with ways to remove the gap even temporarily, which I've no doubt that he could to create an interesting match.
Straight up though? Suggesting Thanos is more powerful than Superman is holds no more weight than saying Darkseid is, based upon a performance of peers.
Suggesting that Superman is in Thanos league when it comes to power, isn't as true as saying Thanos is more powerful. Now you're saying Superman gets smacked around more because he can take it... wtf.. Please provide narration of this being the case... a reference in his bio about this being the case will also due. Problem is, it doesn't exist. Superman doesn't just let hit happen because he can take it... When he got KO'd by Konvict.. he was just messing around? When he got his jaw broken by Zod... he was just messing around now because he can take it? Come on now.
You and other superman fans keep on trying to rely upon this notion that superman can increase his strength and power at a whime and then beat anybody. This "Dynamic" "I can get as strong as I want" stuff gets really old sometimes when people act like it's a fact, when in fact, it's not. Many writers have NEVER written superman this way or given him this "i can get as strong as I want" ability you claim is a given. It's not a given. One writer doing it and giving him that ability, doesn't make it more of a fact than people who never did. To say nothing of the fact, that he wins.. not because of some fabled Dynamic strength all the time but because he HAS TO WIN.. he is the hero. When the Thing toppled Galactus and the FF always beat Galactus... do we go.. Oooo yes it was because of their dynamic ability to overcome all enemies? No we go... they aren't in his ballpark naturally but the FF have to win.. so the do via PIS or CIS. Just because Superman beats people he shouldn't based on that... doesn't make him as powerful or having some kinda I can get as strong as I need to be.. it makes him The Hero who HAS TO save the day. Period.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Suggesting that Superman is in Thanos league when it comes to power, isn't as true as saying Thanos is more powerful. Now you're saying Superman gets smacked around more because he can take it... wtf.. Please provide narration of this being the case... a reference in his bio about this being the case will also due. Problem is, it doesn't exist. Superman doesn't just let hit happen because he can take it... When he got KO'd by Konvict.. he was just messing around? When he got his jaw broken by Zod... he was just messing around now because he can take it? Come on now.You and other superman fans keep on trying to rely upon this notion that superman can increase his strength and power at a whime and then beat anybody. This "Dynamic" "I can get as strong as I want" stuff gets really old sometimes when people act like it's a fact, when in fact, it's not. Many writers have NEVER written superman this way or given him this "i can get as strong as I want" ability you claim is a given. It's not a given. One writer doing it and giving him that ability, doesn't make it more of a fact than people who never did. To say nothing of the fact, that he wins.. not because of some fabled Dynamic strength all the time but because he HAS TO WIN.. he is the hero. When the Thing toppled Galactus and the FF always beat Galactus... do we go.. Oooo yes it was because of their dynamic ability to overcome all enemies? No we go... they aren't in his ballpark naturally but the FF have to win.. so the do via PIS or CIS. Just because Superman beats people he shouldn't based on that... doesn't make him as powerful or having some kinda I can get as strong as I need to be.. it makes him The Hero who HAS TO save the day. Period.
facepalm
do you even read your own posts before submitting them?
I think Kurupt has a good point. I just didn't reply because I was too busy. One thing I was going to mention to JUntai was that the example he gave doesn't support his case. In the JLA classified example he gave Superman specifically held back because he was trying to observe what they were doing, he didn't do it for the hell of it. Maybe I misunderstood.
All superheroes have high showings and in fact high herald characters tend to have the most impressive. That doesn't mean these characters are above high herald we take things into context and average the feats. Superman has lots of feats were he doesn't manage to turn it up. I can't see anything that Juntai provided that proved that somehow Superman is above high herald or is somehow unique. The same argument could be applied to the Silver Surfer for different reasons.
Originally posted by -Pr-imagine wolverine and punisher being on supermans team. it would be non stop debating on how to go against an opponent and what the plan is gonna be.
Superman never holds back "for the hell of it" though. He does it because he wants to suss out his opponent and fight fair.Superman only turns it up when he needs to. Most of the time he simply doesn't need to. At least within the last ten years or so anyway.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman never holds back "for the hell of it" though. He does it because he wants to suss out his opponent and fight fair.
That reason can't be applied to every single fight.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman only turns it up when he needs to. Most of the time he simply doesn't need to. At least within the last ten years or so anyway.
There are lots of examples of him needing to and not doing it. I'm not saying this hasn't happened or he can't but I think this is getting blown out of proportion.
Originally posted by Deadline
That reason can't be applied to every single fight.There are lots of examples of him needing to and not doing it. I'm not saying this hasn't happened or he can't but I think this is getting blown out of proportion.
why not? at the very least it can be applied to the majority if not all of them.
like when?
Originally posted by h1a8Except for the fact that thanos can tank his punches with a smile.And that superman never uses his speed.And that thanos can two shot him like he has other high heralds
You fail to realize the importance of speed. Speed trumps all things.If Superman can move more than 5ft before Thanos can move 1 inch then how in the hell can Thanos defend himself? Superman needs to only hit Thanos once to win. Once he does that Superman will hit him again before the stun effect wears off and renew the stun. This will continue until Thanos is koed. This is the combo to ko principle.
Lastly, if Superman didn't attack first then there is no way for Thanos to hit Superman. Superman can dodge, vibrate, and seemingly teleport out of the way and to different spots on the battlefield (including behind Thanos).
Thanos being highly resistant to energy projection doesn't mean he is equally resistant to physical blunt force attacks. Energy projection has burning properties to them. A flame resistant jacket isn't also bulletproof.
Originally posted by h1a8No its not.Its just a high durability showing for thanos.
Thanos fight against Odin is PIS. Odin portrayed throughout his career should dog walk Thanos the same way Firelord should dogwalk Spider-man.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman never holds back "for the hell of it" though. He does it because he wants to suss out his opponent and fight fair.Superman only turns it up when he needs to. Most of the time he simply doesn't need to. At least within the last ten years or so anyway.
Please post the narration that says Superman does this.
Then while you're at it.. please post the evidence that Superman has the ability to get AS strong as he needs to be and that is a GIVEN without question ability. We have some writers giving him that.. we have other writers not. Please provide any evidence saying this writers take on superman is greater than previous writers. Listing a whole bunch of feats that involve PIS and CIS and supes being a hero and winning isn't proof he has dynamic strength.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please post the narration that says Superman does this.Then while you're at it.. please post the evidence that Superman has the ability to get AS strong as he needs to be and that is a GIVEN without question ability. We have some writers giving him that.. we have other writers not. Please provide any evidence saying this writers take on superman is greater than previous writers. Listing a whole bunch of feats that involve PIS and CIS and supes being a hero and winning isn't proof he has dynamic strength.
SOME writers?
EVERY big writer that's written Superman has made his strength dynamic at the very least, if not the rest of his powers.
Byrne, Jurgens, Loeb, Casey, Johns, Busiek, Morrison etc. It's a crushing majority.
Also, you're asking the wrong person. I didn't say that he gets as strong as he needs to be; I said his powers are dynamic. Which the comics support.
lol. so that means no matter what i post you'll just disregard it as PIS or CIS? Why should I make the effort in that case?
Also, try to use better examples next time. Zod and Konvikt are not good choices. At all.
Originally posted by -Pr-That list you just compiled all have them giving superman the ability to get as strong as he needs to be and having this dynamic strength... please proved the narration for this. Second, you're claiming these writers are a majority of all the people that wrote superman.. false.
SOME writers?EVERY big writer that's written Superman has made his strength dynamic at the very least, if not the rest of his powers.
Byrne, Jurgens, Loeb, Casey, Johns, Busiek, Morrison etc. It's a crushing majority.
Also, you're asking the wrong person. I didn't say that he gets as strong as he needs to be; I said his powers are dynamic. Which the comics support.
lol. so that means no matter what i post you'll just disregard it as PIS or CIS? Why should I make the effort in that case?
Also, try to use better examples next time. Zod and Konvikt are not good choices. At all.
Lastly, did you forget why I posted them? I posted them because you tried to say SUPERMAN just lets people beat up on him to test what they can bring. Not only did I ask you to provide narration for this (which you haven't) but I stated those to ask you if he LET those guys do that to him.. yet those were bad examples... huh? I think you forget why they were brought up...