Rotj Luke Vs. Rots Anakin

Started by Lightsnake5 pages

Originally posted by Advent
He can't "improve" on certain things. For example, he'll never be as agile as he was formerly, nor as fast. And he had a hard time keeping up with Ben Kenobi because of his injuries, that doesn't tell you anything?

Well, if it doesn't, I'll let you in on the secret: he sucks ass [in comparison to his RotS incarnation].

And uhh, what do you mean? Because he has time that somehow means he can become better than before? Not when you factor in the vast handicaps he received.


Ben Kenobi is also described by George as the strongest of the good guys as of ANH in the commentary, does that tell you anything?
and Vade'rs had time to compensate for his weakness. We've seen him kill people who were masters as of the PT and pretty damn fine ones at that.
The loss of agility or speed- and did you see Crimson Empire? tell me that's not agility- isn't much to a good fighter who's learned how to compensate. Vader's had time to learn how to fight against more agile and faster opponents and temper his skill and adapt.


No, because Anakin - with a lightsaber - is better than Darth Vader by a decent margin, therefore whatever Vader does, I have absolutely no doubts that Anakin could do it. Better, probably.

But as I'm curious to see what the almighty Vader (who we have a [b]definitive confirmation is the lesser in dueling) has over Anakin, do tell, what has he accomplished with a blade that Anakin couldn't?

(Hint: The answer is nothing.)


We do have a definitive confirmation there? Luca ssays he's slower and his potential is lessened....so?
With a blade, while still getting used to the suit, he bested Roan Shryne and held his own against numerous Jedi knights and masters.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ben Kenobi is also described by George as the strongest of the good guys as of ANH in the commentary, does that tell you anything?

No, not really.

So, because he's stronger than a smuggler, a farmboy who got his ass zapped by a droid, a snobby princess, and let's not forget, a walking carpet, it's supposed to indicate anything?

Lol! Every single one of the aforementioned would get ripped to shreds by the Jedi of the prequels. What the hell is your point here?

and Vade'rs had time to compensate for his weakness.

No, he hasn't. You cannot build upon things which are impossible to build upon.

He will never be nearly as fast, nearly as agile, or nearly as graceful:

"Vader's legs and arms were artificial, and he would never be able to summon lightning or leap about like the Jedi had been fond of doing." (Rise of Darth Vader, Ch. 21.)

He just doesn't hold a candle in acrobatics. What we also know is that Luke himself was more agile and acrobatic than Vader, yet he's not even as "acrobatic as the young Jedi of the prequels".

We've seen him kill people who were masters as of the PT and pretty damn fine ones at that.

And? How does this even begin to prove he's better than his former self? Who annihilated the likes of Count Dooku, and Cin Drallig?

Yes, he killed several Jedi Knights. And only like, three are even noteworthy in the grand scale: An'ya Kuro, Tsui Choi, and Roan Shryne.

But, how does that mean he doesn't suck ass in comparison? Seeing as Anakin Skywalker would destroy those listed above?

The loss of agility or speed- and did you see Crimson Empire? tell me that's not agility

Wow, I guess he's as flexible as a monkey in the movies, too. Seeing as when he falls he does back flips.

Really, though, big deal. He's not nearly as agile as he was prior. Swinging around on a sword really isn't "all that" in comparison to what we see other Jedi do.

Furthermore, he doesn't display any of those skills in the movies because either: a) he can't or b) he has a helluva' lot of trouble doing them. That's why the duel against Ben Kenobi is so slow, it's because it's was hard to fight for the both of them, as they are "old Jedi".

Vader's had time to learn how to fight against more agile and faster opponents and temper his skill and adapt.

You're right, he's fought against some fast opponents and won. However, I don't see where he's beaten someone who is: more skilled, faster, more agile, and more graceful. And the three latter by, at the least, a league.

Be a dear now, and point that one out for me, will you? I think you'll have a hard time doing such, considering it's never happened.

We do have a definitive confirmation there?

Yeah, Lightsnake. Perhaps if you equipped your spectacles, you'd see this:

"In other words, the skill and power that Anakin shows as a young man is greater than what we see in the classic films. As Vader, Anakin is more machine than man, and being a half-droid construct has seriously hampered his lightsaber prowess." (Episode VI Lore.)

That is in direct regards to the movie era differences. Darth Vader in the OT is a peice of shit compared to his former self, and Anakin's skill is surpasses that of Vader's in the OT.

Luca ssays he's slower and his potential is lessened....so?

And that he's not as skilled, and his lightsaber "prowess" (skill) is "seriously hampered" (sucks ass, limited).

With a blade, while still getting used to the suit, he bested Roan Shryne and held his own against numerous Jedi knights and masters.

To quote you: "...so?"

Really now, none of that proves his handling with a lightsaber is better than Anakin's. Feat Wars, the bane of the fanboy. They do you no good. In fact, it would just say to the commoner that he must've been that damn good beforehand.

Although, it would also seem that indicate that he'd be better as time went on, we know that the skill he shows previously is better than what we see later, thus my position stands.

What's truly friggin' hil-ar-i-ous is that Jedi padawans are seen training with these type of droids, lol!

And? The Padawans purposely had the droids set on a low level

If you've ever played Jedi Academy, you'd know that. On Yavin, the Jedi Praxeum uses the same type of droid, the ASP-19, that Darth Vader had. So, I don't find that quote impressive. More like a steaming pile of Sith. Just like Darth Vader.

Try again, chump change!

Are the insults necessary? In that same game, Kyle Katarn states that had the droid that Jaden Korr fought been set to duel with Luke not the students Jaden would have been ass raped. The droids are still capable of killing Jedi, so your point on the droids being shit is really you know, wrong.

The fact that Post DE Luke even used them to train with as even a workout is proof enough of the machines skill. Let alone Vader who programed them with 100+ combat forms, they out numbered him and he still tooled them around.

You're right, he's fought against some fast opponents and won. However, I don't see where he's beaten someone who is: more skilled, faster, more agile, and more graceful. And the three latter by, at the least, a league.

Maul.

1. Yes, the insults are necessary (not really, but what does it matter?). I don't see you raising a question when debating Nebaris, so why exactly would you even mention that?

2. I concede on that point then, but still, it doesn't change anything.

Advent is absolutely right here. There are certain things ANakin cannot do and will never be able to do and/or improve on. His ROTS self would destroy him in a saber duel. The only thing Vader have is years to learn more force abilities.

1. Yes, the insults are necessary (not really, but what does it matter?). I don't see you raising a question when debating Nebaris, so why exactly would you even mention that?

I'm only stating facts when I "debate" with him. And yes it is irrelevant, but the insults after every post, especially when he was only posting his point (be it wrong or right is regardless) not in a dickish/idiotic/fanboyish way as Nebaris/Planet/Dessel/Kas'im/Sexyback does that makes no sense what so ever (Freedon Naad = Chosen One for example)

2. I concede on that point then, but still, it doesn't change anything.

Not that it was meant too, I was just pointing it out.

Dude, Freedon Nadd is the chosen one, don't be silly Papa Bear.

Sure buddy!

I'm your buddy! 😱

Oh yeah! My bestest friend!

Please explain how Nadd is the Chosen One when Lucas has outright stated that Anakin is.

Kadesh, you're going about this debate wrong. It seems as though you're just trying to prove that Vader is good...that's not the issue. The issue, is that no one can bring up a single point that Vader is better at saber dueling than Anakin. Saying that Vader tooled those droids, in no way means that he's better than Anakin, as Anakin would most likely be able to do the same thing. Everything that Vader has been able to do, Anakin has been able to do. Thats what Advent's trying to say. It doesn't matter what Vader can do, it matters what he can do better than Anakin, which, when it comes to saber techniques, is nothing.

Vader's only chance at beating Anakin, is in a full out fight, and if he can make Anakin lose is cool to a degree where he makes a monumental mistake, and can capitalize on it. Other than that, Vader is gone, and you know how much i like Vader, but he can't win this one (at least in just a saber duel).

EDIT

Advent, do you even need to include your debates with insults?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Advent, do you even need to include your debates with insults?

No, it's not a necessity to my arguments. As much has been obvious since I first arrived.

I do apologize though, if I seem overly rude and/or acting like a jackass, but you really shouldn't take light insults (or insults at all) on an internet forum to heart.

Don't worry, this is nothing compared to when she's serious...I still recall our earlier arguments

No worries we squashed it in the PM, She just wants to get her points of views out strait forward.

O hell i wouldnt mess with the goddess when she gets serious, she like whooped master starbucks arse hard