Actual proof that vader used force deflection In TESB and not the glove

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well ok, if people are insisting that no shots were reflected then they were wrong, the scene clearly shows otherwise. But that's as far as it goes; it's impossible to tell if it was force or glove that caused it.

1. he studies under the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy who has a very big knowledge of the dark side

2. It is highly unlikely GL would indicate during that scene that vader used his gloves and there was nothing to indicate so.

3.Yoda demonstrated this is Acts of war to block bolts with the force
and vader despite being a powerful sith lord it is highly likely he learnt this ability.

So yes i did make a mistake in the title, i should have put in something else

Prove it? What the hell do you mean, prove it? What, you think I tape record everyione I talk to? All I can tell you is that plenty- plenty of people I have talked to about this thought it was the glove. sorry, but they do. I thought it was the Force, but many people do not.

Whether we see Vader fighting a powerful threat in the movies is entirely irrelevant. You want proof positive that Vader has amazing powers- no such thing exists. Furthermore, I will repeat, there is NO evidence that the Force can be used to block blaster bolts by absolutely anyone at all, regardless of power.

It does not matter if it was that person's opinion. You have been reminded, many times, that the databanks have official c-canon status in the EU area, so that opinion now becomes fact unless contradicted by the films. Feel free to argue by film canon instead, in which case we can entirely discount the databank, and move this thread to the OT area, but then you'd be stuck without any of your EU sources either.

Finally, again, this thread was trying to show that primary canon shows these things were possible. Any c-canon sources don't matter at all- as just established, c-canon on this issue says otherwise in this particular case. Stop taking your own darn thread off topic.

Again, to be definitive- there is not one piece of evidence that can possibly be used to definitively state whether it was the glove or the Force that Vader used in that scene. People think either, the issue has never been resolved and likely never will be.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Prove it? What the hell do you mean, prove it? What, you think I tape record everyione I talk to? All I can tell you is that plenty- plenty of people I have talked to about this thought it was the glove. sorry, but they do. I thought it was the Force, but many people do not.

Um i asked many people, every body in my school who has seen this movie, The fans of star wars in this country
The people in Kmc, the ratios of people saying he used the force is 10:1

Originally posted by Ushgarak

Whether we see Vader fighting a powerful threat in the movies is entirely irrelevant. You want proof positive that Vader has amaziong powers- no such thing exists. Furthermore, I will repeat, there is NO evidence that the Force can be used to block blaster bolts by absolutely anyone at all, regardless of power.

Originally posted by Ushgarak

It does not matter if it was that person's opinion. You have been reminded, many times, that the databanks have official c-canon status in the EU area, so that opinion now becomes fact.

Originally posted by Ushgarak

Again, to be definitive- there is not one piece of evidence that can possibly be used to definitively state whether it was the glove or the Force that Vader used in that scene. People think either, the issue has never been resolved and likely never will be.

Gah! No you did not just shatter it with a link, it was not a movie link! Geez.

And obviously you must think there is great debate over whether it was Force or glove, or you would not have opened this thread. Such debate exists, hs existed for decades, and has not and will not be resolved.

The databanks say it was possible for Vader to have used his glove, reasonable interpretation says that this is in direct reference to that scene, but even if you do not wish to be so reasonable, it means the glove cannot be ruled oput, which brings us back to square one.

No but c-canon hasproved it is possible

And equally that it is possible for the glove to do it, hence that being square one.

My entire thrust is that primary canon does not help your case at all.

Thats why i made a mistake about the title as i said earlier.

Yes it is possible that the gloves did it, There is also the posibility that he used the force i never denied that the gloves could have been possible

i was giving my reasons why he used the force because it has been shown to be possible and he is a powerful sith lord, he is a master of the dark side and he learns from the best sith lord there is

Gotta say Kadesh, when i first saw it, even the SE in 97, i thought it was the glove, and just didn't hurt him due to cybernetic limbs. If the bolt didn't even touch his hand, which it wouldn't have had he used the force, then you wouldn't have heard a sound of the laser hitting his hand and sparking. Personally, I don't think it's beyond his abilities, but i don't want to be all adamant about it, because I don't want you to think that because of that, he can block lightning as well. Canon sources have stated as much.

Obviously he used the force to move his hand right where the lasers were traveling, but if you put Han's hand in the glove and shot it, i think Han would be a little bit hurt, ya know?

Also, what Ush is saying, is that the scene opens up the possibility, and that is in no way PROOF that he used the force, but i see you conceded that point already. Canon sources, be it C or G or whatever, have given cases to both possibilities, and there will likely never be a definite answer.

Also, Maul learned from the same Sith lord, does that mean he can do it? No, not at all.

Thats because we havnt seen maul do it yet. And he is not a master

Anyways like i said, han fired 3 shots at him , he reflected one and he dissipated the other two, why do i say that? Its because even in the databanks that it says his gloves can deflect it, and a deflection tool cannot absorb or dissipate energy or a bolt, and clearly i went through the scene several times, I mean heres a metaphor, Lets say vaders glove is a mirror and the bolts are a laser pointer, You point the laser at the mirror, it reflects and the mirror cannot abosorb because it is a reflecter not an absorber, Its like vaders glovs, theres nothing to prove that his gloves can absorb it

It is possible he dissipated the other 2 bolts while reflecting the last one because nothing has indicated his gloves can absorb them and i have checked c-canon sources, this ability can only be learnt by masters of the force which vader is.

Let me elaborate, If his gloves absorbed the bolts, the source of the smoke trail would be his hands, which didnt happen because the smoke is clearly in the air away from his hands and clearly i think it is logical to assume that vader dissipated the two bolts.

ok my final conclusion is that he used dissipate and not deflection,

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Personally, I don't think it's beyond his abilities, but i don't want to be all adamant about it, because I don't want you to think that because of that, he can block lightning as well. Canon sources have stated as much.

Just a question, where does it state he cant block lightning? No where it states that, i checked rodv and ep3 visual guide, it only stated he cant summon lightning, it also said that he is vulnerable to it, but nothing stated he cant block it

Maul's not a master and neither is Vader, he's better than Maul no doubt, but an apprentice nonetheless. Unfortunately, point moot.

Here's something else you have to consider...there's nothing to indicate that Vader's glove can absorb it, right? Well, what's there to indicate that a wall, stormtrooper, or ship hull can absorb it. The fact is that a laser bolt dissipates itself or stops existing once it hits a surface. Even in the trash compactor, where it was magnetically sealed, the laser eventually dissipated itself, otherwise it would ricochet forever. So its more than feasible that the lasers just stopped when hitting his hand, and didn't hurt him due to his glove and cybernetic limb. Being that we don't know what kind of metal that was, we can assume that it (the laser) didn't harm it. I mean the hand lasted the temperature of the lava banks of Mustafar, why not a laser blast?

As far as the source for him not being able to conjure or repel lightning due to not having human hands, Advent has it, and i don't believe someone of her debating abilities would be reduced to lying to adding in false quotes to win an argument. I'll ask her for a scan or page number.

I thought it was the glove when I first saw it, so did most of my friends. Some thought it was the Force.

But what the f*ck does it matter what people THOUGHT it was?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Maul's not a master and neither is Vader, he's better than Maul no doubt, but an apprentice nonetheless. Unfortunately, point moot.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

Here's something else you have to consider...there's nothing to indicate that Vader's glove can absorb it, right? Well, what's there to indicate that a wall, stormtrooper, or ship hull can absorb it. The fact is that a laser bolt dissipates itself or stops existing once it hits a surface. Even in the trash compactor, where it was magnetically sealed, the laser eventually dissipated itself, otherwise it would ricochet forever. So its more than feasible that the lasers just stopped when hitting his hand, and didn't hurt him due to his glove and cybernetic limb. Being that we don't know what kind of metal that was, we can assume that it (the laser) didn't harm it. I mean the hand lasted the temperature of the lava banks of Mustafar, why not a laser blast?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

As far as the source for him not being able to conjure or repel lightning due to not having human hands, Advent has it, and i don't believe someone of her debating abilities would be reduced to lying to adding in false quotes to win an argument. I'll ask her for a scan or page number.

you miss what I'm saying...I'm not saying his glove absorbed it at all. I'm saying that the same thing could have happened to the bolt when it hit his hand as it does when it hits something else...it just stops. The laser served its purpose and ceased to exist. OK, we'll use your example...when you have a laser pointer, if you point it in a mirror, yes, it reflects, but if you point it at a wall, thats where it stops. Vader's glove isn't a mirror. Do you see what I'm saying? It says his gloves can deflect anything short of a lightsaber, it doesn't say that it automatically reflects anything, so the mirror analogy is irrelevant. Also, it doesn't say that it can't absorb it, and like i said before, a laser ending at any certain point of contact, isn't being absorbed. Yoda absorbed Dooku's lightning, but when he deflected it towards the wall, the wall didn't absorb it, the lightning just ended...i cant think of how else to put it...

i get it, but another explanation is that he could have used the force to stop the bolt.. We dont know for sure.

Its not beyond his abilities as you said, and he has demonstrated a larger scale of force dissipation in empire: betrayel, infact he created a force shield shielding him from a barrage of bolts

And it is likely as he is a master he would know this, the databanks confirm him as a sith master

He may be on a masterful level, but the fact remains that Sidious was the Master and he was the apprentice...the databank says that he's a master of the darkside of the truth, and one of the emperor's most trusted servants...thats all i was saying about that. And yes you're right, we don't know for sure...so its not actual proof...but i know you said that earlier...

i was argueing about this because of what i saw in empire comics, the force shield thing which blocks force attacks and bolts so i thought its possible he used it in TESB because he has demostrated this in the eu

But as you say, movie-canon is higher than EU's canon. If movie says differently, we must abide.

The movie didnt specify differently oops!

so that means what yoda, mace windu, sidious all did in the EU should be refuted because it shows differently in the movies? I dont think so mr vader-hater

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dont think i am an idiot, i read the ep3 visual guide,

The quote is

"Vader would never be able to conjure lightning, nor be invulnerable to it"

Nice attempt to lie

No where it states he cant block it

take what you want from it. to me it says he cant use or deflect it. photos from the movie arnt conclusive proof because its dont with special effects, and the end result might be contrary to what the writer/director desires. i saw this movie maniac cop (bad movie) and this cop is killed in it. then some woman throws a chair our the window and the dead cop gets up and moves. this is the actor getting up, not the character, alot of movies have mistakes in them, it doesnt mean that the cop was actually alive, or that some people have a boom mic hovering over their heads at all times.

applying science to movies is cool, but at some point you have to stop and take a look at whats implied and what the intention of the creator was. in this case i have no idea wether he used the force or not. odds are he didnt because official scourses have gone to the trouble of saying vaders glove can deflect anything short of a saber blow, and since saber > blaster their saying he can stop blaster fire with his hands.

And official illustrators have drawn vader putting up a shield blocking an entire barrage of bolts, obviously he used the force there right decay? And POD proved that ability can block force powers, so you fail

And tell me decay, where does it state he cant block lightning? i have read rodv and the visual guide and it only said he cant conjure it and he will be vulnerable, no whereit says he cant block it, you are a liar decay. To you it states he cant deflect it when no where it states that? Are you trying to refute canon decay?

Yes, the bolts bouncing of could have been due to his gloves, but what about the other 2 bolts? They were dissipated because his gloves is a reflecting device and clearly the only solution is that he used the force to dissipate them, Again Empire comics backs this up big time.

By the way, the databanks stated vader is a sith master, and this is not beyond his abilies, he studied under the most powerful sith lord for 20 over years, longer than maul longer than dooku and there is alot of things he could learn from palpatine