Darth Revan vs Darth Bane

I appreciate all the counter arguments for Bane feats but BOTS has not been scrapped from continuity if anything it still could fit into continuity after the events of POD. Remember it was created with no consideration to POD so it still stands. Unless there's a source that states that BOTS which is as viable a source (and earlier) of Bane's fictional info as POD is no longer canon, your argument falls pretty short.

According to BOTS the orbalisks are from Nadd's tomb on Dxun and Bane does go to Dxun after Ruusan and thats canon. So this whole Bane didn't nudge the moon argument is baseless and quite simply wrong.

Originally posted by Allankles
I appreciate all the counter arguments for Bane feats but BOTS has not been scrapped from continuity if anything it still could fit into continuity after the events of POD. Remember it was created with no consideration to POD so it still stands. Unless there's a source that states that BOTS which is as viable a source (and earlier) of Bane's fictional info as POD is no longer canon, your argument falls pretty short.

According to BOTS the orbalisks are from Nadd's tomb on Dxun and Bane does go to Dxun after Ruusan and thats canon. So this whole Bane didn't nudge the moon argument is baseless and quite simply wrong. [/B]

What are talking about? The dark side source book puts Bane's trek to Onderon in BOTS after Ruusan which as you know is where POD ends.

There is no evidence to the contrary, POD retconned Bane's education in the dark side such that in BOTS he finds his first holocron in Onderon after Ruusan, POD has him find his first ancient holocron on Lehon before Ruusan. So, BOTS still fits comfortbaly in continuity as it happens after the battle of Ruusan.

Originally posted by Allankles
What are talking about? The dark side source book puts Bane's trek to Onderon in BOTS after Ruusan which as you know is where POD ends.

There is no evidence to the contrary, POD retconned Bane's education in the dark side such that in BOTS he finds his first holocron in Onderon after Ruusan, POD has him find his first ancient holocron on Lehon before Ruusan. So, BOTS still fits comfortbaly in continuity as it happens after the battle of Ruusan. [/B]

It doesn't work that way. You can't say "Oh there's no evidence to disprove this", that's not how a debate works. For the last time, the Nadd Holocron crap=non canon because it was completely overwritten by POD. It does NOT fit in comfortably. The ONLY canon part would be the orbalisks which were confirmed by Legacy, which is total shit btw and destroys Lucas' idea.

Fact is Bane found two ancient holocrons; one in the temple of the ancients on Lehon before the battle of Ruusan and one after the battle of Ruusan on Onderon.

Originally posted by Allankles
Fact is Bane found two ancient holocrons; one in the temple of the ancients on Lehon before the battle of Ruusan and one after the battle of Ruusan on Onderon.

Dear lord that's NOT a fact, and where's your DSSB quote anyways? There IS no Nadd Holocron because it was overwritten. Quit your fanboyism and start arguing logically. There is NO NADD HOLOCRON. Get that through your thick skull.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Oh really, what does it say then?

It doesn't work that way. You can't say "Oh there's no evidence to disprove this", that's not how a debate works. For the last time, the Nadd Holocron crap=non canon because it was completely overwritten by POD. It does NOT fit in comfortably. The ONLY canon part would be the orbalisks which were confirmed by Legacy, which is total shit btw and destroys Lucas' idea.

There isn't any evidence to disprove that for the simple fact that the events of Onderon in the BOTS happen after the events of Lehon in POD. Secondly Lucas idea was to have Bane single handedly design the rule of two, yet you have the POD author trying to throw some credit for the creation rule of two and the 'thought bomb' on his Kotor 1 character Revan. So who's destroying what?

Originally posted by Allankles
There isn't any evidence to disprove that for the simple fact that the events of Onderon in the BOTS happen after the events of Lehon in POD. Secondly Lucas idea was to have Bane single handedly design the rule of two, yet you have the POD author trying to throw some credit for the creation rule of two and the 'thought bomb' on his Kotor 1 character Revan. So who's destroying what?

Agreed - it did piss me off that Karpshyn (idiot that he is) tried to pass off Bane's own accomplishments to Revan. It was one of the major reasons I held off reading PoD.

But, as it is now, Bane's knowledge is definately not exceeding Revan's own - and the hype about Bane's power is nothing compared to that about Revan's.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Dear lord that's NOT a fact, and where's your DSSB quote anyways? There IS no Nadd Holocron because it was overwritten. Quit your fanboyism and start arguing logically. There is NO NADD HOLOCRON. Get that through your thick skull.

How does a Nadd holocron get overwritten when Bane finds it after POD? And I'm no Bane fan boy, just setting the record straight.

Originally posted by Allankles
How does a Nadd holocron get overwritten when Bane finds it after POD? And I'm no Bane fan boy, just setting the record straight.

Because it states Bane found Nadd's holocron and it taught him everything and surpassed the teachings of the academy on Korriban and taught him the rule of two. How incredible that Revan's holocron did the EXACT SAME THING. Therefore, it's a retcon.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Because it states Bane found Nadd's holocron and it taught him everything and surpassed the teachings of the academy on Korriban and taught him the rule of two. How incredible that Revan's holocron did the EXACT SAME THING. Therefore, it's a retcon.

But the two events are seperated chronologically making POD's retcon null and void (as regards BOTS) and simulataneously lend less weight on the effects of Revan's holocron outside the events of Ruusan. Nadd's holocron had nothing to do with Ruusan; in the the same way Revan's holocron had nothing to do with the Orbalisks or the events of BOTS after POD.

Originally posted by Allankles
But the two events are seperated chronologically making POD's retcon null and void (as regards BOTS) and simulataneously lend less weight on the effects of Revan's holocron outside the events of Ruusan. Nadd's holocron had nothing to do with Ruusan; in the the same way Revan's holocron had nothing to do with the Orbalisks or the events of BOTS after POD.

They are not separated, jesus christ. Revan's holocron>Nadd's.

Is that even an argument?

Fact: Bane finds Revan's holocron before the battle of Ruusan

Fact: Bane finds Nadd's holocron after the battle of Ruusan.

The fact that they are chronologically seperated and the fact that the events of BOTS have been confirmed as EU canon by the evidence of Bane's orbalisk armor in Legacy, means that they are indeed unrelated parts of Bane's legacy.

You're acting as if POD encompasses BOTS - which it doesn't. Or that Bane's knowledge can't stretch beyond Revan's little holocron on Lehon when we knew going into POD that Bane would find Nadd's holocron after POD.

Originally posted by Allankles
Is that even an argument?

Fact: Bane finds Revan's holocron before the battle of Ruusan

Fact: Bane finds Nadd's holocron after the battle of Ruusan.

The fact that they are chronologically seperated and the fact that the events of BOTS have been confirmed as EU canon by the evidence of Bane's orbalisk armor in Legacy, means that they are indeed unrelated parts of Bane's legacy. [/B]

And again, since his Orbalisk has been the ONLY thing that was confirmed by more than 1 source, and since everything ELSE has been retconned, there is NO argument.

Again Sexy, the only retcon is that The Rule of Two was found in Nadd's holocron; that's it. The existence of the holocron is canon. Bane pulling a moon out of orbit is canon. You are not canon. Canon > your mum.

Originally posted by allfg
Again Sexy, the only retcon is that The Rule of Two was found in Nadd's holocron; that's it. The existence of the holocron is canon. Bane pulling a moon out of orbit is canon. You are not canon. Canon > your mum.

THe existence of the holocron is NOT canon because it contradicts the rule of two. Pulling a moon is NOT canon just because you say so Noobaris sock. Guess what, facts>your opinions.

The only retcon was the rule of two all other knowledge derived from Nadd's holocron outside of the Orbalisk armor was not specified in BOTS, so how the hell do we know that Bane uncovered the same info from the two holocrons?

An empty off-handed statement about how in both cases he had more knowledge than his peers as a result? Well duh... that's the point of the holocrons: greater knowledge.

Secondly, you seem to want to irrationally dismiss the fact that POD was written to encompass a different period in Bane's life as compared to BOTS. Nadd's holocron is canon unless you want to tell us that Nadd's holocron is an exact copy of the Lehon holocron.

Originally posted by Allankles
The only retcon was the rule of two all other knowledge derived from Nadd's holocron outside of the Orbalisk armor was not specified in BOTS, so how the hell do we know that Bane uncovered the same info from the two holocrons?

Secondly, you seem to want to irrationally dismiss the fact that POD was written to encompass a different period in Bane's life as compared to BOTS. Nadd's holocron is canon unless you want to tell us that Nadd's holocron is an exact copy of the Lehon holocron. [/B]

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Apparently YOU don't understand. That retcon simply means there IS no Nadd holocron unless you have a second source to back it up, which is REQUIRED when something is being retconned. As I've stated before, the ONLY canon fact of BOTS is his orbalisks, that is ALL. Your assumption that Bane obtained the SAME EXACT info from both holocrons is ludicrous.

It's NOT canon, and since there is no second source that confirms it after it's been retconned, then all you have is Revan's holocron.

There's no need for a second source when the effect and relevance of each individual holocron on their respective stories is not the same. Your adamant refusal has no bearing on the fact that the events of these two stories happen at different times within the continuity.

Secondly, I never said that the holocrons contained the same exact knowledge, I said that we can't make assumptions on the content of Nadd's holocron because BOTS gave no specifics and that your argument would only stand if both holocrons shared the same knowledge (therefore giving priority to POD's holocron).

Again (hopefully the last time I say this), POD's retconning didn't affect BOTS account on Nadd's holocron.