It's NOT canon, and since there is no second source that confirms it after it's been retconned, then all you have is Revan's holocron.
Do you have proof of BOTS being retconned? BOTS makes no mention that the knowledge within Revan's holocron was identical to what was within Nadd's, so unless a continuity official said that it was retconned and rendered invalid, we can't make assumptions that it was.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that BOTS makes no mention that Bane got any ideas of "the rule of two" from Nadd's holocron.
Originally posted by zephiel7
Do you have proof of BOTS being retconned? BOTS makes no mention that the knowledge within Revan's holocron was identical to what was within Nadd's, so unless a continuity official said that it was retconned and rendered invalid, we can't make assumptions that it was.
Furthermore, I'd like to point out that BOTS makes no mention that Bane got any ideas of "the rule of two" from Nadd's holocron. [/B]
Really? Because it mentions him coming out with the knowledge of the rule of two.
To put it succintly, it never stated that Bane invented the rule of two. It leaves the possibility that Revan had a part to play in it as well. Moreover, it gives absolutely zero mention of Nadd inspiring him to come up with rule either. PoD fits perfectly with continuity, well at least with respect to BOTS.
And you also have a problem with canon. Since some of the events HAVE been retconned
Nothing has been retconned. Could you reiterate what you think has been retconned, because simply put, I am not seeing it.
Yes, it gave him the knowledge of the direction the sith were supposed to go
The holocron was stated to be an "amazing library of darkness" It was never stated to possess the information that was contained within Revan's holocron. From what basis are you making this assumption?
The point I would like to make is, given all this, why would a retcon be needed at all? If there is a retcon, who done it?
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?books=560
There you go. Point to me where it says Nadd influenced Bane on creating the rule of two. Moreover, state where it says Bane invented it by himself. It says Bane established it, but that is truth.
In order to be convinced, I need the above to be explicitly stated.
"Now that he alone remained, now that he was the seed that would cause the new tree of evil to flourish, he decided that no longer would the Sith be composed of great armies attempting to overwhelm civilization through brute force."
"From now on, the Sith would depend on secrecy, working behind the scenes to eat away at the foundation of the Republic's government. With the Sith nearly extinct, weakened to the point of ineffectuality, Bane decided that the study of dark lore must go underground. He would hide and work in the shadows of society, using all he had learned from the holocron. "
"For now, he would also establish an unbreakable new rule to prevent the internecine feuds and civil wars that had stolen victory from the Sith grasp. There must be only two Sith at any one time: a master and apprentice. The two of them would learn the dark side intimately, and they would become brilliant puppeteers to manipulate the fools in the Republic. "
All of that is an implication that he learned this from Nadd's holocron. Not to mention Nadd's tomb was pillaged 3,000 years earlier by Sion's forces, and the exiles.
And no, I don't really care what you need in order for you to be convinced. That's like saying "In order for me to be convinced I need for you to show me where it says Bane is more powerful than Revan". Sounds just as ridiculous, read the passage and use logiacl deduction.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
[B]"Now that he alone remained, now that he was the seed that would cause the new tree of evil to flourish, he decided that no longer would the Sith be composed of great armies attempting to overwhelm civilization through brute force."
"From now on, the Sith would depend on secrecy, working behind the scenes to eat away at the foundation of the Republic's government. With the Sith nearly extinct, weakened to the point of ineffectuality, Bane decided that the study of dark lore must go underground. He would hide and work in the shadows of society, using all he had learned from the holocron. "
"For now, he would also establish an unbreakable new rule to prevent the internecine feuds and civil wars that had stolen victory from the Sith grasp. There must be only two Sith at any one time: a master and apprentice. The two of them would learn the dark side intimately, and they would become brilliant puppeteers to manipulate the fools in the Republic. "All of that is an implication that he learned this from Nadd's holocron.
It never stated that Bane got the rule of two from Nadd. It explains what he was thinking before he decided to leave Dxun, but that in no way implies that he learned it from Nadd.
So really, nothing explicitly contadicts PoD. As far as I know, continuity officials are content to leave it as canon. There is no basis to establish something as big as a retcon.
Originally posted by zephiel7
It never stated that Bane got the rule of two from Nadd. It explains what he was thinking before he decided to leave Dxun, but that in no way implies that he learned it from Nadd.So really, nothing explicitly contadicts PoD. As far as I know, continuity officials are content to leave it as canon.
What do you mean explicitly? You want something to come out and say it for you to be satisfied? I just gave you a logical deduction. After he learned from the supposed holocron, he decided the path the sith should take. However, he did that already in Revan's holocron so unless both holocrons are the same, that part of BOTS was retconned, and again not to mention Nadd's tomb was pillaged and pilfered 3000 years earlier.
What do you mean explicitly? You want something to come out and say it for you to be satisfied?
No, I am saying that you are basing whether or not a retcon happened on what was implied. It was never stated that Bane learned the secrets from Nadd, so for continuity's sake, there is no reason to believe that the passage you quoted implied that he did. If it can work into continuity, I see no reason why it should be retconned at all.
Anyways, that's my point, take it or leave it. Good night.
Originally posted by zephiel7
No, I am saying that you are basing whether or not a retcon happened on what was implied. It was [b]never stated that Bane learned the secrets from Nadd, so for continuity's sake, there is no reason to believe that the passage you quoted implied that he did. If it can work into continuity, I see no reason why it should be retconned at all.Anyways, that's my point, take it or leave it. Good night. [/B]
And my point is, the passage STATES that after coming out of Nadd's tomb and after learning the holocron, it states that Bane realized the true potential of the sith and the direction they should go. This is WHAT he learned from Revan's holocron. While it is NOT stated(it shouldn't have to be), it is implied.
I can agree that there's somewhat of a contradiction, considering Bane's realisations from Nadd's holocron are identical to those in PoD from Revan's holocron, but what you need to understand is that, that one contradiction doesn't retcon the whole of BotS, or even the existence of Nadd's holocron; just that Bane formed the Rule of Two from knowledge inside that holocron. That's the only retcon; the existence of the holocron, or Bane coming across it would only be retconned if they were dependant on said contradiction, and they're not.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And my point is, the passage STATES that after coming out of Nadd's tomb and after learning the holocron, it states that Bane realized the true potential of the sith and the direction they should go. This is WHAT he learned from Revan's holocron. While it is NOT stated(it shouldn't have to be), it is implied.
I thought we already discussed this? As I've said, the existence oF Nadd's holocron is not dependant on Revan's holocron because the existence of the holcron isn't dependant on its implied similarities with Revan's i.e. the info on Nadd's holocron cannot be made redundant merely because off their similar effects on Bane.
Afterall, Nadd's experiences and knowledge would be expected to vary from Revan's. A part of the effect of Nadd's holocron was retconned not it's entirety - unless we are saying Revan's holocron was exactly the same as Nadd's?
This was a very pointless argument.