Luke runs the gauntlet

This only applies to the time, this in no way proves that he's the most powerful sith ever.

It does apply to time, but sorry, the meaning still stays the same. "You have lost".

When Sidious is said to be the most powerful practioner of the Dark Side, it means that up to that point of time in all of the Sith Lords ever, Sidious is the "most powerful" in the use of the Dark Side of the Force.

There's nothing in that line that proves in the year "19 BBY, Darth Sidious is the strongest known Dark Lord".

Another statement backing this up is when the ROTS novelization calls Yoda the strongest Jedi up to that point of time. The Databank is on concurrence with this, by saying Yoda is the strongest Jedi in the whole Old Republic Jedi Order, as is Palpatine is the strongest in the whole Old Republic Sith Orders.

As we know of of course, there is no other Sith Lord besides Sidious himself that is stronger in the years of the New Republic, ergo Palpatine is the greatest DLOTS ever and the most powerful in the use of the Dark Side.

The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
It does apply to time, but sorry, the meaning still stays the same. "You have lost".

Are you stupid, it is clearly speaking in respect to the time.

When Sidious is said to be the most powerful practioner of the Dark Side, it means that up to that point of time in all of the Sith Lords ever, Sidious is the "most powerful" in the use of the Dark Side of the Force.

Funny, you clearly don't know how to read, because I didn't see any 'up to that time' in the passage.

There's nothing in that line that proves in the year "19 BBY, Darth Sidious is the strongest known Dark Lord".

"The two entered into a spectacular duel" - quite clearly talking in respect to the time of the duel.

Another statement backing this up is when the ROTS novelization calls Yoda the strongest Jedi up to that point of time.

1. That wasn't factual, but a belief that Yoda mystically came to.
2. Even if that quote was valid, I don't see how Yoda being the most powerful jedi ever backs up Palpatine being the most powerful sith ever, unless you want to argue that the most powerful jedi ever would have to be as powerful or more powerful than the most powerful sith ever.

The Databank is on concurrence with this, by saying Yoda is the strongest Jedi in the whole Old Republic Jedi Order, as is Palpatine is the strongest in the whole Old Republic Sith Orders.

Where does it say that? And if it does, I can assure you that, again, it's referring to the time.

As we know of of course, there is no other Sith Lord besides Sidious himself that is stronger in the years of the New Republic, ergo Palpatine is the greatest DLOTS ever and the most powerful in the use of the Dark Side.

1. If that really did come from the databank, that Palpatine was in fact the most powerful sith ever in his particular order, this doesn't account for previous orders, so you still fail.

2. Methinks that you need to go back to your debating classes (I find that hilarious by the way) and stop forming these ridiculous arguments.

Sith'ari, why the hell do you constantly lie and twist facts?

Yoda being called the strongest up to that point is NARRATIVE and approved PERSONALLY by Lucas.

And are you trying to say the Jedi are so much weaker than the Sith? The NEC confirms Palpatine as the strongest Sith as of ROTS, the Dark Side sourcebook and DE Sourcebook confirm him as well. You need to get off your high horse, already and realize that maybe, because Bane had a book on him, he's just not all that

Sith'ari, why the hell do you constantly lie and twist facts?

1. You're the biggest liar here, and quite clearly a hypocrite too.
2. It's funny how whenever you call me a liar, you always fail to back that up.
3. Where did I lie or twist facts?

Yoda being called the strongest up to that point is NARRATIVE and approved PERSONALLY by Lucas.

Where?
The RotS novelisation statement that you refer to is narrative dependant on invalid events, and thus is also invalid. It is also Yoda himself miraculously coming to this belief, not the omniscient narrator factually stating it...

And are you trying to say the Jedi are so much weaker than the Sith?

No, that's not what I'm saying, what I was saying was that even if Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever, you cannot absolutely prove that the most powerful jedi ever would have to be stronger than the most powerful sith. And jedi tend to be weaker than sith, yes.

The NEC confirms Palpatine as the strongest Sith as of ROTS

The NEC is written by a historian inside the SW universe, he's basing that opinion off of inconsistent and sometimes inaccurate historical material, his opinion is in no way better than mine or your's, it's actually most probably lesser. The point is, that does nothing in proving that Palpatine was the most powerful sith lord ever.

the Dark Side sourcebook

This argument has been constantly defeated, power in that context wasn't purely related to combat prowess.

and DE Sourcebook confirm him as well

I searched through the DE Sourcebook, the quote was nowhere to be found. Nobody's claiming responsibility to originally coming up with that either. In other words, the quote doesn't exist, it's a lie.

You need to get off your high horse, already and realize that maybe, because Bane had a book on him, he's just not all that

Bane's arguably the most powerful sith ever (force and saber, though I'd agree that he's currently #3 based on what we know), and he's only 27, has been studying the darkside for less than three years, half of that time from flawed teachings. He's quite easily going to surpass Sidious.

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
1. You're the biggest liar here, and quite clearly a hypocrite too.
2. It's funny how whenever you call me a liar, you always fail to back that up.
3. Where did I lie or twist facts?[/Quot]
In that last post, mayb?
And where do I 'fail to back it up? Do you not read?
And I'm a liar? Lol

Where?
The RotS novelisation statement that you refer to is narrative dependant on invalid events, and thus is also invalid. It is also Yoda himself miraculously coming to this belief, not the omniscient narrator factually stating it...

False. Prov it. I have statements from Leland Chee and Matt Stover, as well as the personal approval from Lucas and btw, that part of the fight scene contradicts nothing.
Btw, it's still narrative and thus G-canon

[Quote]
No, that's not what I'm saying, what I was saying was that even if Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever, you [b]cannot absolutely prove that the most powerful jedi ever would have to be stronger than the most powerful sith. And jedi tend to be weaker than sith, yes.

The NEC is written by a historian inside the SW universe, he's basing that opinion off of inconsistent and sometimes inaccurate historical material, his opinion is in no way better than mine or your's, it's actually most probably lesser. The point is, that does nothing in proving that Palpatine was the most powerful sith lord ever.

Uh, uh, uh! It's STILL a representation of the out of universe facts and Voren Na'al is the top historian of a league of historians who bases his apparent opinion ON the facts. He has knowledge of Marka Ragnos and Bane quite intimately it seems

This argument has been constantly defeated, power in that context wasn't purely related to combat prowess.

I searched through the DE Sourcebook, the quote was nowhere to be found. Nobody's claiming responsibility to originally coming up with that either. In other words, the quote doesn't exist, it's a lie.

Bane's arguably the most powerful sith ever (force and saber, though I'd agree that he's currently #3 based on what we know), and he's only 27, has been studying the darkside for less than three years, half of that time from flawed teachings. He's quite easily going to surpass Sidious. [/B]

Are you stupid, it is clearly speaking in respect to the time.

Learn English hyprocrite. I said it does apply to time.

Funny, you clearly don't know how to read, because I didn't see any 'up to that time' in the passage.

And yet, you say it applies to time. Hyprocrite again.

It says a "contest between the strongest practioner of the Force's light and dark sides" which means that Yoda and Sidious were the strongest ever users of the Light and Dark and that they fought. However, since Luke Skywalker ends up stronger than Yoda and ROTS indicates Yoda being the strongest Jedi up to that point, it does refer to time.

"The two entered into a spectacular duel" - quite clearly talking in respect to the time of the duel.

It means that in that point of history, Yoda and Sidious were the strongest Light and Dark fighters and that they dueled. In the future, Luke surpasses Yoda.

Where does it say that? And if it does, I can assure you that, again, it's referring to the time.

OMG, stupid sock, when I said in the "Old Republic Jedi Order", of course I mean time you idiot.

2. Even if that quote was valid, I don't see how Yoda being the most powerful jedi ever backs up Palpatine being the most powerful sith ever, unless you want to argue that the most powerful jedi ever would have to be as powerful or more powerful than the most powerful sith ever.

Yes, it proves my argument that Palpatine is the strongest Sith in the Old Republic Sith Orders. Obviously, you don't get it.

2. Methinks that you need to go back to your debating classes (I find that hilarious by the way) and stop forming these ridiculous arguments.

Well, some tips for your debating skillz {which you have none btw}

1.) Don't lie in debates
2.) Don't use insults to further your arguments. You'll only get even more hatin'
3.) Stop being a sock Nebaris, you'll lose respect. 🙂

Bane's arguably the most powerful sith ever (force and saber, though I'd agree that he's currently #3 based on what we know), and he's only 27, has been studying the darkside for less than three years, half of that time from flawed teachings. He's quite easily going to surpass Sidious.

As Blaxican says, I think you need to cut down them bane porn you're on. It'll cool down the fanboyism.

I read what the databank said and Sith'ari is right for once. That specific databank ONLY applies for that specific time. There is NO way to twist that around, not even logically. However, lightsnake has various OTHER sources that prove Yoda is the most powerful Jedi until Luke, and Sidious is the most powerful sith ever. I think, that is. But no, you two are wrong. The Databank SPECIFICALLY talks about current time.

I DO NOT OWN THE DE SOURCEBOOK.

For the final freakin' time! LS, you know that, I asked you if I should buy it or not and you said "don't waste your money".

Whoops, sorry, Escape. Got mixed up.

And I still stick by that. On the other hand, try the Complete Visual Guide, worthy investment

From the Complete Visual Guide (specifically the page after the introduction to the Attack of the Clones section.

Sidious is referred to as: "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."

Originally posted by Gideon
From the Complete Visual Guide (specifically the page after the introduction to the Attack of the Clones section.

Sidious is referred to as: "The greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power."

There we go. I was strictly talking about the databank, as that what the argument was really about. I need to get the complete visual guide.

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Highly irrelevant.

How about trying again. 🙂

:erm:

The quote that Prodigal provided is absolutely relevent to the discussion, Sith'ari. I've been over this with multiple people, and my point remains clear: do not attempt to deny, refute, or worm around the fact that Palpatine's raw power was so intense that it was killing and decaying his body. Hell, if you want to get technical, at the end of Dark Empire - when he planned to use Anakin Solo's body as his vessel, he even knew that that wouldn't contain his essence - and he planned to simply use Anakin's body for the genetic material required for a strong set of clones.

It is directly implied that no body (not even his own, or not even a Skywalker's) could maintain Palpatine's raw energy for too long.

Gideon, is the Complete Visual Guide and the Ultimate Visual Guide the same book?

Anyways, greatest =/ most powerful, again, all these statements quite clearly are flawed.

Add that to his near 'becoming the Dark Side itself' thing...

And can you stop denying evidence as you will, Sith'Ari?

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Gideon, is the Complete Visual Guide and the Ultimate Visual Guide the same book?

No. The Complete one is simply the prequel visual guides and the original trilogy Star Wars visual guides compiled into one massive book. The Ultimate Guide goes deeply into the Expanded Universe, too.

Anyways, greatest =/ most powerful, again, all these statements quite clearly are flawed.

:erm:

No, not in this context. This statement was made during the AotC visual guide - Sidious had not completed his plans for domination and had not executed them completely. They were in their infancy. Not everything as far as "greatness" or "power" are ambiguous, Sith'ari. Especially when a similar statement would be "the greatest swordsman of the age" directly refers to skill and/or power. This statement about Palpatine involves the same thing.

If you disagree, you will need to offer proof.

Sith'ari, you're a moron

I read what the databank said and Sith'ari is right for once. That specific databank ONLY applies for that specific time. There is NO way to twist that around, not even logically.

I don't quite understand what you mean by specific time. If you mean up to that point, yes Sidious and Yoda were the strongest Light and Dark Side users. Afterwards, Yoda is surpassed by Luke but Sidious is still top dog. Ergo, it proves Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord ever. This is in concurrence with the many other souces that shows Sidious is the strongest DLOTS to ever live.

Anyways, greatest =/ most powerful, again, all these statements quite clearly are flawed.

How so? It's pretty clear in Databank its referring to combat prowess and strength of their Force, not anything else. The Complete Visual Guide again refers to Force strength.

Originally posted by Gideon
:erm:

The quote that Prodigal provided is absolutely relevent to the discussion, Sith'ari.

Wrong, you really should read more clearly before stepping in. I was asking for statements that suggest that Palpatine was the most powerful sith ever, as he originally claimed there were. So no, it was irrelevant.

I've been over this with multiple people, and my point remains clear: do not attempt to deny, refute, or worm around the fact that Palpatine's raw power was so intense that it was killing and decaying his body.

Again Escape, you're ignoring other variables, such as the age and strength of his body, his willpower, his control of his powers, to what magnitude he used the darkside etc.. I never denied that it suggests his power was great, but you have tp consider the other variables.

Hell, if you want to get technical, at the end of Dark Empire - when he planned to use Anakin Solo's body as his vessel, he even knew that that wouldn't contain his essence - and he planned to simply use Anakin's body for the genetic material required for a strong set of clones.

Link please, it shouldn't take you too long to supply one from SWTimline. And anyways, Palpatine is perfectly fallible, and he was also arrogant, he might have believed that no body was capable of holding his power, but he could easily have been wrong.

It is directly implied that no body (not even his own, or not even a Skywalker's) could maintain Palpatine's raw energy for too long.

How so? Post a link.

Okay. Respond to my other posts, while I look for the link.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sith'ari, you're a moron

Sexy, I'm not alone in saying that all you do is troll and attack other people's arguments without offering your own, now please, quit being annoying.