Originally posted by Rutog98
This is very desperate, but I will address your points by paragraph:1) I have not shown any feats where her winds reach greater than 300 mph? The lady has flown from New Orleans to New York in a matter of minutes. She flies at the rates of the winds she generates. She has lifted skyscrapers (a feat that requires winds much greater than 300 mph). She has smashed MAgneto's force-field and taxed his powers greatly. Magneto was easily able to withstand Colossus, Logan and Cyclops at the same time a page or two before. Again, those are winds well over 300 mph. What they are doing in comics is simply having Storm perform awesome feats without listing the wind speed. Nobody knows exactly how much wind velocity is needed to produce the force to do these things. We just know that she can do them. The feats she's doing goes well beyond the strength and power of a 300 mph wind. Its stated that Namor's strength is at 85 tons yet he has accomplished feats well above this and on these boards, we give him credit for it. He is given class 100 strength because of that. The same should (and will) hold true for Storm's winds.
Minutes...? The scan did not state minutes in Schism there was no sense of time. Hence your speculation.
How do you know winds less then 300mph can't hold up a sky scraper...Spiderman has supported a skyscraper. The same way Storm supported it. Again your speculation.
She did not smash through Magnetos forcefield...this is not shown on panel. Again all your speculation.
Oh and the Teen Titans crossover is not canon.
2) Contest of Champions 2 came out in the late 90s. You are thinking Contest of Champions 1 issue 2. I am talking about Contest of Champions 2.
If you look at the end of my last post I already addressed the reason why they would have changed it. The Unknown Energy Matrix thing.
3) There was no reason Marvel changed 99 save probably miscommunication or something because Storm is controlling cosmic forces in the Brood Saga. Furthermore, in the very issue you are trying to use, she is flying on solar winds in out of space. The only thing that was changed was the fact that she assaulted the sentinel with a lightning bolt instead of the wind itself. The issue states that she was in a vacuum, therefore, you will find no planetary wind. Yet after she disposes of the sentinel, she flies on a cosmic wind to get back to the others. You are really desperate to keep Storm in that box you have in your head.
Read above...yes but she wouldn't be riding a Force Gale 12 now would she.
4) She had near-infinite power. The issue stated that. She had ultimate power in her grasp. The issue stated that. The lady was tempted by the same ultimate power that tempted Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix.
Ultimate power in her grasp? Point me to the line where it says this?
5 and 6) I always get a kick out of how you intentionally read X-Treme 5. I was waiting to see if anyone would call you on this. Anyway, here is what Storm says at this point:Storm: "Thunderbird, the difference between mutants and the rest of our fellow humanity is that we wield the primal forces of nature. All of us hold within ourselves the capacity to transcend our very being. I've seen it happen to the others of our kind."
Prior to this, Storm says that she herself will evolve into an actual goddess.
Okay, what you are ignoring is the fact that Storm was speaking of mutants who wield the primal forces of nature. That knocks out Angel and Beak. Secondly, it says that they can transcend humanity, that does not mean that they will evolve into gods or goddesses. So in this case, if you want to bring up Angel and Beak, you can try and stretch them into this. They may transcend humanity, but that does not mean they will evolve into gods and goddesses like Storm. That's the extreme. Storm can evolve to that extreme. That was stated very plainly in the issue. I don't think she was really ferring to characters like them though.
"Capacity to transcend our very being" "I've seen it happen to other of our kind" "I've experienced it myself". "We are driven by the nature as human beings to reach the unattainable...but mutants possess the means to achieve that goal". That's the most important part you missed. This Roguestorm you claim to be all cosmic is what she experienced therefore according to you Polaris(Wields the forces of nature) can become a goddess.
7) Rougestorm stopped before we could see her true power. She could command all of the elemental forces, but did we see her cause an earthquake or manipulate gravity or anything? No. We did not get to really see her powers at all. Who knows what she would have been able to accomplish had she kept going. What if she went out into space? We knew that STorm could control cosmic forces from the beginning as her first Uncanny issue was 94 and she was doing this in issue 99. Storm in Uncanny 165 did not have the power of Rougestorm. She did a bigger feat, yes, but we never got to see Rougestorm's full power.
Exactly so anything you say is just speculation. Storm has never controlled cosmic energy.
8) I can't find my issue now, but here is what's stated:Storm: "Enough. I am Mistress of the Storm be it tropical, cosmic or arctic. I will not allow the elements, my birthright, to be the instruments of our deaths."
Please don't try and use this issue to prove that Storm can be hurt by those cold temperatures or that she can't alter weather over a continent. I have numerous instances to contradict it. Just save yourself the effort. However, this issue does give her the credit for controlling cosmic forces as well. [/B]
I'm looking at all the narrative boxes and still can't find it. It is the issue with Siena Blaze right?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I've read it and there's still nothing that gives the impression of her being a cosmic entity.
Who said she was comic entity level? You?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Hit Doom with a lightning bolt? The winds are 200 Knots not something Storm hasn't done before.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Seeing how she couldn't dispel the Storm immediately she must have limits.
Let's take a closer look to prove my point.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Her power is near infinite therefore she must have limits. A very vague statement not a gauge in power.
I'm not arguing that she might not have limits, i'm proving she never displayed a limit at least until her self control returned. Her only limit i saw was her emotions.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Not to mention the fact that Storm has a Goddess complex...since she wasn't in the right state mind that persona would have been present.
Storm does have a goddess complex but she also admitted to not being a real goddess, but she does admit to being one there, and that wasn't another persona storm displayed it was just her angry for being locked up all that time in that statue.
Seen here she could have destroyed colossus and her lightning was powerful enough to cause him pain, but she still didn't want to destroy him.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She transcended but it DOES NOT mean she transcended into a being with cosmic power...
She believes she transcended into a goddess of evil.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
she did it in the physical sense like AoA Sunfire, Iceman and Shadow King(Who's iffy) becoming slightly more powerful and there's is nothing to suggest that she was a being of cosmic proportions. That is where you're reaching.
Seen here storm's weather powers work on a grand scale in space because the atmosphere is much bigger.
This is the point i'm trying to prove that storm has already proved that her powers can work on a cosmic scale.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'll give you the fact that she gave up the power...but she only gave up the power after she showed she DOES have limits so my point still stands.
She never displayed a limit until she got psychotic with mixed emotions and we all know storm's powers are locked in with her emotions, this still doesn't mean her powers have a limit.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I give you the part where her powers where amplified. However there is nothing to suggest levels of cosmic proportions. You're reaching. Just because a character gets a power up does not mean she is cosmic. Her Storm was not even on a Global level. How does that equate to cosmic?
Storm can use her powers on a global scale she was just getting started with dooms castle first. Also there is evidence to suggest that her powers were up there,
And you realize the term Infinite was mentioned right next to near
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Phoenix started off as a separate cosmic entity possessing Jean not a mutation. Besides if we go by you're theory Beak and Angel have the potential to become Cosmic Gods. 🙄 There's no use arguing this point. Claremont made reference to the Roguestorm incident in X-treme X-Men #5. And Storms comment was directed at ALL mutants. Nothing that makes Storm unique.
No there is no use in you arguing this, it is wrote down on canon paper that storm evolved beyond all comprehensions and that she had near infinite power, no matter how vague it was it was still canon. And if this jean isn't the phoenix then why is she considered it and has always been one with the phoenix?🙄
But when it's storm it can't be true even with it down on canon paper
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It's vague...when she didn't perform anything cosmic. Her Storm was not even on a Global scale. So how can we just assume she's cosmic.
Look up she doesn't have to prove it, the regular powered storm already proved that she can display comic power, if storm would have went all out on the world there would not have been anyone around to stop her.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
The scan says the "effort is as tremendous as the holocaust itself".. Meaning she struggled when she tried to calm the Storm. 😕
Nope she said this before she even started calming the storm and she even mentions she never dreamed of making such a storm in the first place. Try again
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It still means she has limits. Obviously it means Storm cannot do it because she said she couldn't do it.Meaning she has limits.
Nope wrong again she never said she couldn't do it and if i remember correctly she did stop the storm in a horrible emotional state at that.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
You still haven't shown anything. What the heck is Goddess level? Goddess level as in a God among men? Again there is no gauge in power. The only thing we have are her feats and her storm was not on a global scale. She is Alpha mutant level.
Storm had full control over all of the elemental forces of the planet and she was entirely one with it, that's enough to be on goddess scale for me.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She transcended her physical appearance. A lot of mutants have done this Iceman, Horsemen/AoA Sunfire and Shadow King. That power where she controls particles on a molecular level has ONLY been shown to apply to clothes. So changing attire in the middle of battle is not going to be of much help.
Isn't her hair a lightning elemental? That's enough to prove her power on a molecular scale.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I'm sorry but you come across as heavely bias here...again why are we assuming she's on cosmic level? The feats she demonstrated were nothing she hasn't done before.
Take one good look up at that scan and see what you come up with.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
- She calmed a storm the size of a hemisphere. In the Roguestorm issue she calmed a Storm much smaller then a hemisphere and almost died.
As i've said she didn't almost die from stopping the storm
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
- She already took down Doom in Black Panther.(And in the Roguestorm issue,
Doom didn't try to deflect that lightning blast in the bp issue
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Doom had very little information on the mutants. Hence the reason he captured them..so he could study them). When boosted Dooms shields still held in the Roguestorm issue.
Doom's shield did not hold at all, that's the reason he was almost destroyed in one blast, the entire energy reserved was drained the first blast.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
- Her winds are 150Knots in the Roguestorm issue that's less then her 300mph cap? What's so impressive about that? What's so cosmic about that? Nothing she hasn't done before without the boost.
When did the issue display her wind knots?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Also you're forgetting that Claremont already made reference to that Roguestorm issue in X-treme X-Men #5. According to that issue. Storms transcending into Roguestorm is nothing unique to Storm and all mutants are capable of doing this.
But didn't storm give the power up? and didn't jean grey become the phoenix by transcending?
Originally posted by The Weather GodAren't you claiming that she had "near infinite" and "limitless power" i.e. some sort of cosmic level being? If you're not trying to amp her up to some cosmic level of power, then pray tell what exactly are you trying to do?
Who said she was comic entity level? You?
She's powerful, yes.
And?
I'm trying to figure out what exactly your point is?
What exactly is goddess-level? Do you think she could take on Hela? Nabu? Zuras? Zeus? Odin? Darkseid? Takion?
What exactly was so fantastical about this to even warrant the slightest suggestion of limitless power? Do you really think the Storm that appeared in that one arc with her "limitless" "near infinite" power is on par with the Phoenix as she is today? Do you really think she can compare with Wanda Maximoff from the HoM? Mad Jim Jaspers? Insane Genis-Vell? The Authority's Doctor? Dr Strange? Shazam the Wizard? Rune King Thor? The Spectre?
Is she "beyond all comprehension" of these people? Is she near their level of infinity?
The word "infinite" is thrown around a lot in comics. Just like "limitless" "invulnerable" "invincible" "fastest" "strongest" "most powerful" and so on. There are scales of "infinity" in comics.
Originally posted by The Weather God
Who said she was comic entity level? You?
Weren't you the one who said she had "ultimate power" as Roguestorm? The one who was apparently evolving and would eventually become a "Goddess" like the Phoenix?
Can you see why I say that's speculation?
Just in case the word they used her was "Evolved" not "Evolving".
BTW Could you give an example of what you mean by Goddess Level? Thor? Odin? Thanos? Sersi? Selene? Apocalypse? Living Tribunal? POTWC?
No she nearly destroyed doom with one lightning blast and it drained his armor while he was deflecting it.
He a mere human with limited knowledge on the X-Men managed to deflect a lightning bolt of a being who claimed to have no limits.
It never stated how long it took storm to stop the storm, it could have been instantly, your missing the point that she's just saying their powers work differently. As she said she haves to work with the elements and shape them while thor just makes a thought and the magic does the shaping. That in no way puts a limit to her powers, all it means is thor controls the weather different.
Let's take a closer look to prove my point.
It showed her struggling to calm it. The fact that she has time to form 3 sentences in her head shows that it wasn't instant. And that's what I'm saying it is a limitation for a being who claims to have no limits. Which is the point I'm trying to subtly make it's hyperbole.
"But I must work with the forces of nature, not ride roughshod over them, and gently shape them to my will. The effort is as tremendous as the Holocaust itself. I did not dream of creating such a thing."
A gain a limitation for a being who claimed to have no limits. Can you see why it's a hyperbole now?
I'm not arguing that she might not have limits, i'm proving she never displayed a limit at least until her self control returned. Her only limit i saw was her emotions.
Well then I don't see why we're debating then we both agree that she does have limits.
BTW Her power was described as near infinite. That is a limit in itself 😬
I would still like to know what you mean by "Goddess Level" though.
Storm does have a goddess complex but she also admitted to not being a real goddess, but she does admit to being one there, and that wasn't another persona storm displayed it was just her angry for being locked up all that time in that statue.
"And Colossus responds with no you are Ororo."
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3411/uxm147page19vg6.jpg
Showing that Storm is drunk on the newly found upgrade she just recieved which corrupts her personality.
You even said she overcame her darker side. It wasn't anger we've seen Storm angry before it was the fact that she became corrupted by her power which is the parallel to the Dark Phoenix Saga.
Seen here she could have destroyed colossus and her lightning was powerful enough to cause him pain, but she still didn't want to destroy him.
Again that's the parallel with the Phoenix...the Phoenix always held back when she fought her friends because Jean was inside holding it back. The same can be said with Storm. However one thing should be noted, the Phoenix was merciless to the people she never cared about i.e. Mastermind, Emma etc...like Storm with Doom. Storms personality was corrupted by the power.
She believes she transcended into a goddess of evil.
My point exactly. The key word is "Believes". Her personality is corrupted.
Seen here storm's weather powers work on a grand scale in space because the atmosphere is much bigger.This is the point i'm trying to prove that storm has already proved that her powers can work on a cosmic scale.
She manipulates meteorological patterns depending on her atmosphere that's just her the way her power works. She does the same in that case...
"She summoned the power of the entire core" but only for the "Briefest of moments" and both her and the embryo die. It's a good feat but you're only speculating when you say Roguestorm could have done the same thing without killing herself.
Storm can use her powers on a global scale she was just getting started with dooms castle first. Also there is evidence to suggest that her powers were up there,And you realize the term Infinite was mentioned right next to near
Yes "Near Infinite"...meaning there is a limit. Again you realize that's a very vague statement for a being who didn't display that type of power. And that's what I'm trying to get at...the only thing you can do with the Roguestorm issue is speculate using vague statements. If Marvel decide to make her an actual goddess on par with the Phoenix then let them. But using vague statements that at full potential Storm can beat the Phoenix in a debate is a very weak argument.
No there is no use in you arguing this, it is wrote down on canon paper that storm evolved beyond all comprehensions and that she had near infinite power, no matter how vague it was it was still canon. And if this jean isn't the phoenix then why is she considered it and has always been one with the phoenix?🙄But when it's storm it can't be true even with it down on canon paper
crazydoh
Read the X-treme X-Men #5 issue again. All comprehensions....as in beyond our understanding. Claremont touched on the subject again in X-treme X-Men #5. She's "All of us have the ability to transcend our very being" "I've seen it happen to others of out kind". "I've experienced it myself".
Something that isn't unique to Storm. Claremont clarified what he meant.
Back then the Phoenix was a separate entity. Now thanks to all the retcons Jean and Phoenix are one. Back then Claremont wouldn't have had that knowledge. Besides Brubaker said he's going to ignore Endsong and Morrison and go back to the separate entity idea. So as you can see ideas seem to fluctate when it comes to writers and interviews.
Look up she doesn't have to prove it, the regular powered storm already proved that she can display comic power, if storm would have went all out on the world there would not have been anyone around to stop her.
It was very brief and it killed her hardly the display of a REAL Cosmic Power.
Nope she said this before she even started calming the storm and she even mentions she never dreamed of making such a storm in the first place. Try again
She said the effort was tremendous...come again.
Nope wrong again she never said she couldn't do it and if i remember correctly she did stop the storm in a horrible emotional state at that/
She never said she could do it. So the fact that she brought it up and didn't say that she could do it andopted for another method means she couldn't do it. Anything else is just speculation.
Your logic equates to Wolverine never said he couldn't fly meaning he still might be able to fly.
Storm had full control over all of the elemental forces of the planet and she was entirely one with it, that's enough to be on goddess scale for me.
Vulcan controls all ENERGY, doesn't make him a God.
Explain what Goddess level means.
Isn't her hair a lightning elemental? That's enough to prove her power on a molecular scale.
Icemans can exist as vapour doesn't make him a God.
Molecular level? Magneto works can work on an Atomic Level doesn't make him a God.
As i've said she didn't almost die from stopping the storm
😕 "The effort nearly kills her" as stated on panel. The effort of being victorious over both the Storm and her darkside almost kills her.
Doom didn't try to deflect that lightning blast in the bp issue
Doom had little information on the X-Men in the Roguestorm issue. Besides she still beat him without an upgrade did she not. Bad writing maybe but the same can be said about the Roguestorm issue.
Doom's shield did not hold at all, that's the reason he was almost destroyed in one blast, the entire energy reserved was drained the first blast.
It held because he managed to deflect the blast from a being who claimed to have no limits.
When did the issue display her wind knots?
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm147page06df1tq2.jpg
But didn't storm give the power up? and didn't jean grey become the phoenix by transcending?
Originally Jean became the Phoenix because of a separate cosmic entity. That is still true today...except part of the Phoenix Force got fused into her during the Inferno. Then later on Morrison and Endsong made it out so she was destined to become the Phoenix....however there is and will always be a separate Phoenix Consciousness. So in a way the Phoenix is still a separate entity Jean is just it's top avatar. Storm transcended and her power levels are not known. You can only use the power levels she showed. And that's nothing she hasn't displayed before.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Aren't you claiming that she had "near infinite" and "limitless power" i.e. some sort of cosmic level being? If you're not trying to amp her up to some cosmic level of power, then pray tell what exactly are you trying to do?She's powerful, yes.
And?
I'm trying to figure out what exactly your point is?
What exactly is goddess-level? Do you think she could take on Hela? Nabu? Zuras? Zeus? Odin? Darkseid? Takion?
What exactly was so fantastical about this to even warrant the slightest suggestion of limitless power? Do you really think the Storm that appeared in that one arc with her "limitless" "near infinite" power is on par with the Phoenix as she is today? Do you really think she can compare with Wanda Maximoff from the HoM? Mad Jim Jaspers? Insane Genis-Vell? The Authority's Doctor? Dr Strange? Shazam the Wizard? Rune King Thor? The Spectre?
Is she "beyond all comprehension" of these people? Is she near their level of infinity?
The word "infinite" is thrown around a lot in comics. Just like "limitless" "invulnerable" "invincible" "fastest" "strongest" "most powerful" and so on. There are scales of "infinity" in comics.
Storm=Phoenix
Rougestorm=Dark Phoenix
This is very obvious if anyone reads the interview, Dark Phoenix Saga and Uncanny 145-147
Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm=PhoenixRougestorm=Dark Phoenix
This is very obvious if anyone reads the interview, Dark Phoenix Saga and Uncanny 145-147
That's where things begin to clash...I guess there's no way either side is going to "give in"..oh well I'll just leave it as it is....one thing I've learned on KMC is that you can't change people....people can only change themselves.
I guess that's that...
Originally posted by Rutog98
Storm=PhoenixRougestorm=Dark Phoenix
This is very obvious if anyone reads the interview, Dark Phoenix Saga and Uncanny 145-147
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Weren't you the one who said she had "ultimate power" as Roguestorm? The one who was apparently evolving and would eventually become a "Goddess" like the Phoenix?
No i am not and if you want to prove me wrong find a quote.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Can you see why I say that's speculation? Just in case the word they used her was "Evolved" not "Evolving".
And? i don't see a point
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
BTW Could you give an example of what you mean by Goddess Level? Thor? Odin? Thanos? Sersi? Selene? Apocalypse? Living Tribunal? POTWC?
Up there with thor is what i consider goddess level.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
He a mere human with limited knowledge on the X-Men managed to deflect a lightning bolt of a being who claimed to have no limits.
Doom didn't deflect the blast as i've said the 100th time. Read exactly what he said.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
[B]It showed her struggling to calm it. The fact that she has time to form 3 sentences in her head shows that it wasn't instant. And that's what I'm saying it is a limitation for a being who claims to have no limits. Which is the point I'm trying to subtly make it's hyperbole."But I must work with the forces of nature, not ride roughshod over them, and gently shape them to my will. [b]The effort is as tremendous as the Holocaust itself. I did not dream of creating such a thing."[/B]
Nope as i say again she didn't even start calming the storm yet meaning it wasn't time to start timing her just yet, she wasn't sure she was able to do it because her powers had just been boosted.
This is when she starts using her power
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
A gain a limitation for a being who claimed to have no limits. Can you see why it's a hyperbole now?
Nope
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Well then I don't see why we're debating then we both agree that she does have limits.
Phoenix describes herself as not having a limit am i correct? I'm just wondering why it's ok for her to hold back from killing her friends and still be considered to not have a limit. 😕
Again but when it's storm....... 🙄
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
BTW Her power was described as near infinite. That is a limit in itself 😬
Doesn't matter to me that's not what my debate was
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I would still like to know what you mean by "Goddess Level" though.
Gaia control's all of the elemental forces on the planet am i correct? Not that i'm saying storm is her level, storm posses the full powers of Mother Nature.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
"And Colossus responds with no you are Ororo."http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3411/uxm147page19vg6.jpg
Showing that Storm is drunk on the newly found upgrade she just recieved which corrupts her personality.
Doesn't matter colossus was trying to bring storm back down from her goddess level interpreting storm to give up that goddess power and come back to who she really was.
Here he brings the phoenix in which is what he meant in the same sense
I also seem to recall colossus telling her she's changed
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
You even said she overcame her darker side. It wasn't anger we've seen Storm angry before it was the fact that she became corrupted by her power which is the parallel to the Dark Phoenix Saga.
We've never seen storm locked away like that..... As i've said she wanted to destroy doom, she was just playing around with her powers. This is why she kept talking to doom and as i've pointed out didn't want to destroy the x-men.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Again that's the parallel with the Phoenix...the Phoenix always held back when she fought her friends because Jean was inside holding it back. The same can be said with Storm. However one thing should be noted, the Phoenix was merciless to the people she never cared about i.e. Mastermind, Emma etc...like Storm with Doom. Storms personality was corrupted by the power.
Storm didn't want to hurt her friends as well as destroy the planet. She Wanted to destroy doom due to the treatment he made her face, she didn't create a global scale storm to destroy the planet and what not because that was not her intentions.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
My point exactly. The key word is "Believes". Her personality is corrupted.
She was a goddess and she was only pissed off at doom.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She manipulates meteorological patterns depending on her atmosphere that's just her the way her power works. She does the same in that case...
Exactly that proves that her powers can be on a cosmic scale which is pure canon proof.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
"She summoned the power of the entire core" but only for the "[b]Briefest of moments" and both her and the embryo die. It's a good feat but you're only speculating when you say Roguestorm could have done the same thing without killing herself.[/B]
If her powers were amplified to near infinite levels then i believe she could and survive.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Yes "Near Infinite"...meaning there is a limit. Again you realize that's a very vague statement for a being who didn't display that type of power. And that's what I'm trying to get at...the only thing you can do with the Roguestorm issue is speculate using vague statements. If Marvel decide to make her an actual goddess on par with the Phoenix then let them. But using vague statements that at full potential Storm can beat the Phoenix in a debate is a very weak argument.
Hold on a minute when did i say she could beat the phoenix? When did i say she was on par with phoenix. For one i came in this debate explaining why storm never showed a limit which you so desperately try to find in the rogue storm issue. I proved that she never said thor was more powerful which was something you had misinterpreted and i proved that storm's powers were amplified to unknown level and she was only limited by her emotion.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Read the X-treme X-Men #5 issue again. All comprehensions....as in beyond our understanding. Claremont touched on the subject again in X-treme X-Men #5. She's "All of us have the ability to transcend our very being" "I've seen it happen to others of out kind". "I've experienced it myself".
Point? My point still stands that this was the same way jean became the phoenix, but again when it's storm it's bs.🙄
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Something that isn't unique to Storm. Claremont clarified what he meant.
Exactly what i thought 🙄
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Back then the Phoenix was a separate entity. Now thanks to all the retcons Jean and Phoenix are one. Back then Claremont wouldn't have had that knowledge. Besides Brubaker said he's going to ignore Endsong and Morrison and go back to the separate entity idea. So as you can see ideas seem to fluctate when it comes to writers and interviews.
Sorry but it was either a transcend or complete bs to me. They shouldn't have changed it's too late and it's canon.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It was very brief and it killed her hardly the display of a REAL Cosmic Power.
Nope as i've pointed out it was her emotional state that caused the problem or she would have been weak the minute she made the damn thing in the first place
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She said the effort was tremendous...come again.
Again because of her emotional state
Read all of what she said
"I did not dreamed I was capable of Creating Such a Thing"
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
She never said she could do it. So the fact that she brought it up and didn't say that she could do it andopted for another method means she couldn't do it. Anything else is just speculation.
Your logic equates to Wolverine never said he couldn't fly meaning he still might be able to fly.
What are you talking about? She did stop the storm and she didn't have to do it the thor way or are you saying storm can't ride roughshad over the elements? If so then you are correct but that in no way means a limit, it just mean thor control's the weather different, either way storm stopped that roguestorm.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Vulcan controls all ENERGY, doesn't make him a God.
god·dess
1. A female being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people.
2. often Goddess A female being believed to be the source of life and being and worshiped as the principal deity in various religions. Used with the.
3. An image of a female supernatural being; an idol.
4. Something, such as fame or wealth, that is worshiped or idealized.
5. A woman of great beauty or grace.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Explain what Goddess level means.
Already have
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Icemans can exist as vapour doesn't make him a God.
Molecular level? Magneto works can work on an Atomic Level doesn't make him a God.
They've never been worshipped as a god so they are not one at all, no matter how much power they have. If people don't at them as one they are not.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
😕 "The effort nearly kills her" as stated on panel. The effort of being victorious over both the Storm and her darkside almost kills her.
It said more importantly over her darkside as i've already stated she would have nearly died creating the storm in the first place, this matter was caused by her emotinal state. We all know that storm's powers are locked into her emotions so she had to keep complete control of them while she was stopping the storm, this is what i believed caused the exhaustion.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Doom had little information on the X-Men in the Roguestorm issue. Besides she still beat him without an upgrade did she not. Bad writing maybe but the same can be said about the Roguestorm issue.
But doom didn't try and deflect the lightning am i correct? I also bet he never made any claims in trying to am i correct?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
It held because he managed to deflect the blast from a being who claimed to have no limits.
It did not hold because the shield was destroyed the first blast.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uxm147page06df1tq2.jpg
Oh that's right they do show that, but still it's not like storm was creating a hurricane or something of a serious wind magnitude, so that does not matter.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Originally Jean became the Phoenix because of a separate cosmic entity. That is still true today...except part of the Phoenix Force got fused into her during the Inferno. Then later on Morrison and Endsong made it out so she was destined to become the Phoenix....however there is and will always be a separate Phoenix Consciousness. So in a way the Phoenix is still a separate entity Jean is just it's top avatar. Storm transcended and her power levels are not known. You can only use the power levels she showed. And that's nothing she hasn't displayed before.
🙄 so now when you need phoenix to be a separate entity she is one, but the storm vs jean thread there is no jean without the phoenix force because she has always been the phoenix, i mean come on make up your minds people.
My point was not about how powerful storm was in that issue but that storm never displayed a limit until her emotions got in the way. You were trying to prove that storm wasn't anymore powerful then she already was and that was when i said i should correct you there.
Originally posted by The Weather GodSo you've never stated she had limitless power citing that arc? You weren't the one raving on about how she can reach the entire universe?
No i am not and if you want to prove me wrong find a quote.
Originally posted by The Weather God
Here she states herself that her powers are limitless
Originally posted by The Weather God
Evidence proves that storm's powers can practically reach the entire universe and she wouldn't have a limit to how much she could handle
Originally posted by xmarksthespotSo you answered one part of my post I guess. So being on Thor's level makes one "Goddess level." Thor is generally considered to be Herald level. With the likes of the Silver Surfer, GLs, Adam Warlock, Quasar and so on.
Aren't you claiming that she had "near infinite" and "limitless power" i.e. some sort of cosmic level being? If you're not trying to amp her up to some cosmic level of power, then pray tell what exactly are you trying to do?She's powerful, yes.
And?
I'm trying to figure out what exactly your point is?
What exactly is goddess-level? Do you think she could take on Hela? Nabu? Zuras? Zeus? Odin? Darkseid? Takion?
What exactly was so fantastical about this to even warrant the slightest suggestion of limitless power? Do you really think the Storm that appeared in that one arc with her "limitless" "near infinite" power is on par with the Phoenix as she is today? Do you really think she can compare with Wanda Maximoff from the HoM? Mad Jim Jaspers? Insane Genis-Vell? The Authority's Doctor? Dr Strange? Shazam the Wizard? Rune King Thor? The Spectre?
Is she "beyond all comprehension" of these people? Is she near their level of infinity?
The word "infinite" is thrown around a lot in comics. Just like "limitless" "invulnerable" "invincible" "fastest" "strongest" "most powerful" and so on. There are scales of "infinity" in comics.
And what exactly did she do that would put her on Thor's level i.e. Herald level, pray tell?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So you've never stated she had limitless power citing that arc? You weren't the one raving on about how she can reach the entire universe?
So you are telling me that's proof that i said she haves limitless powers ? I was quoting what the scan said Shall i point it out?
"Evidence proves that storm's powers can practically reach the entire universe and she wouldn't have a limit to how much she could handle"
I was talking about her power level on a cosmic scale.
As seen here she can see the entire universe in an energy pattern and manipulate it the same way she controls the weather on earth.
This still doesn't mean she would have limitless power just because her powers reaches that far out and it's far from my point at hand, I was trying to prove storm never showed a limit in that issue except for her emotional state.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
So you answered one part of my post I guess. So being on Thor's level makes one "Goddess level." Thor is generally considered to be Herald level. With the likes of the Silver Surfer, GLs, Adam Warlock, Quasar and so on.And what exactly did she do that would put her on Thor's level i.e. Herald level, pray tell?
Don't i seem to recall you stating storm was on thor's level in that comic in the meggen vs storm?
Originally posted by The Weather God😂 I do hope your joking. Have you any idea what Thor is capable of?
Don't i seem to recall you stating storm was on thor's level in that comic in the meggen vs storm?
If I did ever say anything that stupid, then I plead temporary insanity, but I don't recall saying it.
What in that comic did she do to put her into Herald level? Last time I checked hyperbole wasn't a cosmic power.
The rest of my questions remain unanswered.
