Originally posted by darthsith19
And no, TPM Maul and Qui-Gon could not defeat ROTS Anakin and Obi-Wan, Maul could hold either of them off for a little while, I guess, and Qui-Gon vs. Kenobi would be drawn out due to Soresu so a battle between the two teams might last as long as, oh 3-4 minutes but the ROTS duo definitely wins.
Same goes for you.
Same goes for you.
True I guess. But with your logic Yoda wouldnt be better than Maul with a blade, even though he has had centuries more training with it. While experience doesnt count for everything, more often than not it will give you the edge in a fight. Especially since with these years of training you have mastered your form and force abilities to the highest possible degree.
Hahaha fair enough. But being taught by the two most powerful force users of the era is most certainly an advantage. Anakin was the chosen one, he was going to be uber no matter who taught him.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
well then why did you bring it up in the first place?
It wasn't a comparison of Obi-Wan and Anakin against Qui-Gon and Maul. It was a comparison of the fighting strategy of Dooku.
I actually mostly agree with Rampant. Dooku wins, and quite handily.
Firstly Dooku trained Qui-Gon, which means he knows him inside and out. Secondly, Qui-Gon uses Ataru, which (I cant remember the source) Dooku says he knows every flaw and weakness of and can exploit them very easily. Dooku is also a far superior force user then Qui-Gon. So basically, Qui-Gon wouldn't last very long at all, not long enough to make a difference anyways.
Then we get to Maul. While Maul is obviously very skilled with a lightsaber he is no Dooku. Dooku is still noticeably superior to Maul in saber combat, and obviously vastly superior to Maul in terms of force power. Maul would last longer then Qui-Gon would against Dooku due to his sword skills, but Maul is still going down hard.
Originally posted by jollyjim311
I really want to say Qui Gon and Maul, because:
Qui Gon-
* The best lightsaber user Obi Wan Has ever seen.
* On par with Mace Windu as of TPM.
* Could have easily been on the council.
* Knowledgeable and wise of the force (seeing as how he was the first to come back from the dead).Maul:
* "An almost unstoppable weapon" (Ultimate Visual Guide, page 32).
* He had "Constant training to become stronger, faster, and smarter than any adversary could anticipate," and showed it (Same).
* "Masters the lightsaber and practices martial arts and marksmanship" (Same).
* Extremely resilient to pain.
* http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=001 (Tell me if you're too lazy to read through, and just want specifics).
* Uses "ruthless fighting techniques" and "superior Sith fighting skills" to kill Qui Gon. (Page 39)
* An "Incredible warrior" (Databank).
* Uses unique fighting styles, like Teras Kasi forms with his lightsaber.But:
Acording to the ROTS novel, during Dookus fight with Anakin and Obi Wan, while Obi Wan was faking weakness and using Qui Gons form, it stated that "Kenobi's Master had been Qui-Gon Jinn, Dooku's own Padawan; Dooku had fenced Qui-Gon thousands of times, and he knew every weakness of the Ataro form, with its ridiculous acrobatics." He went on with about three strikes that he was positive would kill Kenobi, due to him using Ataru (luckily Kenobi stopped feigning in time and went to Soresu).
If Dooku can really "burn through his spine from kidneys to shoulder blades" and kill Qui Gon as fast as he thought he would be able to, then, he takes out Qui Gon, and after a tough match, eventually defeats Maul (rightfully assuming that Maul and Qui Gon can't go at him with a lot of synergy).
It doesn't seem to add up, but, there you have it. Depending on the circumstances and arena, it could change, but, it looks like Dooku has this, due to his knowing everything about Qui Gon's form, and, Qui Gon himself, I would imagine. 😬
Darth Maul is an impressive lightsaber duelist. Whilst he may not be greater than ROTS Kenobi in lightsaber combat, he's definately powerful enough that he's not going to get owned by Dooku in a saber contest.
Qui-Gon is not that good in lightsaber and Force combat compared to these two individuals.
Dooku's Makashi skill will help him surely overwhelm Qui-Gon. However, in a saber contest, he's not going to whip Maul soon. His Force mastery will help him surely in this duel.
Tyrannus can overwhelm Qui-Gon Jinn with lightsaber mastery and Force strength. He'll then duel with Maul before pulling a Force combination on the Zabrak and finish him off.
Thus, the duo loses after a good fight.
Sith'ari, are you kidding? Maul's a weak duelist? Is this the same Maul that nearly killed Sidious in the EU? The same one who saber skills are (according to the TPM Visual Dictionary) better than Sidious's (I don't believe that to be true, but it's what it says). The same one who took out Anoon Bondara, who was twice stated to be "The Order's Finest Swordsman"? The same one wh, when tired, took out Qui-Gon Jinn, who rivaled Mace in swordsman ship, and also faught Jinn and Kenobi, two on one, and matched them for msot of the duel? Right... 🙄
Maul certainly isnt weak, yet he isnt on the level of Dooku in either swordsmanship or force mastery. Beating Jinn and Kenobi isnt anything special really. Jinn was aging and more than likely wasnt at his peak, Kenobi was nothing more then a reckless apprentice. Besides, if I recall Maul lost that match anyway. We dont know how strong Mace was as of TPM, so we cant use that to guage Mauls abilities at all.
Killing Sidious in the EU may or may not have been impressive. I dont know seeing I havent read what happened. But are you sure Maul didnt just catch Sidious by suprise? If so its nothing really that special either - if it was we could say that TPM Kenobi is better than he actually is because he caught Maul by suprise and nearly bet him (in fact he did beat him).
I dont know about this Anoon Bondara person. I find it very hard to beleive that they were the Ordes Finest. Especially when this Order comprised of Yoda and probably Dooku at that time. So while I think Maul is good, he has nothing on Dooku.
EDIT: I dont see anywhere in TPM Visual Dictionary that states Mauls saber skills are better than Sidious' own. Can you provide a page number please.
You guys are underestimating Qui-Gon. He was a master swordsman. He got beat by Maul because the setting didn't allow him to use his preferred combat form to its fullest.
Originally posted by The Sith'ari
No way, Maul's a pretty whack duelist; technically, he sucks, he had barely mastered an incomplete form by TPM, he was reckless and left himself far too open, and he briefly got overpowered by fricking [b]TPM Obi-Wan! [/B]
Wookieepedia
Darth Maul, a Sith Lord who appeared to have mastered Juyo, was so immersed in the dark side, yet so much in control of his anger that he could employ his own deadly variant of Juyo without fear.
And he wasn't overpowered by Obi-Wan. He got cocky when he had thought the battle was over and was caught off guard.