Originally posted by Nellinator
I'm saying that he's basing his conceptions on nothing but what he's been told.
I admit I find it more then a little humorous when a person of faith, any faith, uses that phrase. It just warms my cynical old heart.
But yes, I was being semi-serious I admit, and the whole rant was more for a certain type of believer, since I myself do not believe, no, it was more a tirade on the concepts of certain others.
Ya, but it would be nice if he could provide more than one verse to support his conception. Until then, his opinion of hell (as described by the Bible) is invalid.
Where exactly did I describe/express an opinion on Hell? Oh, the "sadistic tortures" bit - sorry, I was channeling Lord Urizen there, and the whole "semi-serious rant" aspect. But then again - would you say there are a lot of people who, Christian and otherwise, believe there is a hell? And that "bad" people, upon death, end up there (be it for a little while or forever)? That a large sector of the Christian religious community believes those souls in hell suffer? I didn't, in my extreme arrogance, think I was typing anything vastly beyond the conceptions of a good many Christians. I wasn't expressing my opinion, I was commenting on the opinion of what a good many others think hell is. And I believe that you, being good and honest and all would agree that it is a view plenty of Christians have - and that plenty of Christians, like members of any faith, are just as prone of misinterpretation.
Then I just used an ABC approach - if a soul in hell is capable of feeling bad, well, isn't it logical that a soul in heaven could also feel bad? What exactly stops that? And after all, if the soul is the better part of us as individuals what exactly happens to the human part that causes so much division between us and God? Which made me muse about a spiritual lobotomy. And now that I read it again - it was mainly about heaven, hell wasn't that big a part of the whole thing.
My main problem was with you saying that we are tortured by Satan's finest which though obviously you do not believe that, it is a common misconception (which I now understand you were using to prove a point) that is harmful and creates undeserved enmity. Yes a lot of 'Christians' have ill informed beliefs about hell among other things. Hell (or Sheol) is described as darkness and it seems that the suffering there will be of your own volition. After that is Judgement where you are either admitted into heaven or utterly destroyed.
It's hard to imagine heaven, but I believe that sadness will likely be possible within heaven, however, I do not believe that it will occur.
Originally posted by Nellinator
Ya, but it would be nice if he could provide more than one verse to support his conception. Until then, his opinion of hell (as described by the Bible) is invalid.
You have to admit, PVS did make a worthy attempt at trying to use the good ol "flood and confuse" method(sic). His major problem in using the technique, was forgetting that in order for the technique to be successful, one needs to have more knowledge of what it is they're talking about, then the people they're trying to confuse.
The next method that generally comes along if the "flood and distract" one is unsuccessful is the --- "psuedo-intellectual - I don't know(or maybe I do know) - perhaps you won't know(that I don't know) what I'm talking about - so let me *pretend* that I do know(and go off-topic at the same time)" --- technique.
Have we gotten to that one yet? If not then please let me know when we do.
Originally posted by Thundar
You have to admit, PVS did make a worthy attempt at trying to use the good ol "flood and confuse" method(sic). His major problem in using the technique, was forgetting that in order for the technique to be successful, one needs to have more knowledge of what it is they're talking about, then the people they're trying to confuse.The next method that generally comes along if the "flood and distract" one is unsuccessful is the --- "psuedo-intellectual - I don't know(or maybe I do know) - perhaps you won't know(that I don't know) what I'm talking about - so let me *pretend* that I do know(and go off-topic at the same time)" --- technique.
Have we gotten to that one yet? If not then please let me know when we do.
To answer you question yes we have . . . but its been the theists doing it (especially you).
Originally posted by Thundar
You have to admit, PVS did make a worthy attempt at trying to use the good ol "flood and confuse" method(sic). His major problem in using the technique, was forgetting that in order for the technique to be successful, one needs to have more knowledge of what it is they're talking about, then the people they're trying to confuse.The next method that generally comes along if the "flood and distract" one is unsuccessful is the --- "psuedo-intellectual - I don't know(or maybe I do know) - perhaps you won't know(that I don't know) what I'm talking about - so let me *pretend* that I do know(and go off-topic at the same time)" --- technique.
Have we gotten to that one yet? If not then please let me know when we do.
I think you are quite good at that last one.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I think you are quite good at that last one.
I think we are all at times. Which is funny, as none of us (save god) has absolute knowledge of everything. I think sometimes we all can get caught up on what we know, and forget that we really don't know nearly as much as we think we do. The bible and computers are my two biggest know-it-all areas, although even with those fields of study I find myself fairly lacking quite a bit from time to time. As far as everyone else's strengths, below are the ones that I've noticed thus far(all of this of course, is based on my discussions with you all, and what I've read in other threads).
Nellinator - seems to be on the ball with etymologies as referenced in the bible. Learned a lot from this guy.
Shaky - Good with various subjects pertaining to Buddhism.
mr. Symmetric - well..he's work in progress. Haven't really figured out what he knows yet(he..He)
Feceman - Fairly good comprehension of scriptures and English grammar.
Samarai - seems to be fairly good with various cultural histories.
PVS - Another work in progress. he was 'prophecying'(ghetto slang) fairly well against myself and others, problem being he had no clue what he was talking about. With a little more work and motivation of coarse, and a lot of moral support and love, this guy could be a pretty good preacher on the side of the Christian faith. Particularly since he seems to be fairly witty, and good at coming up with things on the fly. Unfortunately, I didn't get the vibe that he wants to be one though. But who knows..maybe someday.
Alliance - Fairly good science guy. A little bit(okay a whole lot) of atheist zealotry going on with him though.
If you have any additional comments about myself or this topic, feel free to make them now. Please don't take any the above too seriously, as it was just meant to be a lighthearted analysis of the various skills being presented within this thread and forum thus far.
Originally posted by Thundar
PVS - Another work in progress. he was 'prophecying'(ghetto slang) fairly well against myself and others, problem being he had no clue what he was talking about. With a little more work and motivation of coarse, and a lot of moral support and love, this guy could be a pretty good preacher on the side of the Christian faith. Particularly since he seems to be fairly witty, and good at coming up with things on the fly. Unfortunately, I didn't get the vibe that he wants to be one though. But who knows..maybe someday.
You can keep PVS.....he will only bring intense negativity to your religion, and give you religion an even worse name than it already has to some people....
PVS and myself are both Liberal, however, I have less respect for him than I do for most of the Conservatives on this forum...
He beleives that Victory can be found by answering Hatred with MORE Hatred, and he can't see how wrong he is.....I do not want a person like that on my side, so if you want him..TAKE HIM !
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You can keep PVS.....he will only bring intense negativity to your religion, and give you religion an even worse name than it already has to some people....PVS and myself are both Liberal, however, I have less respect for him than I do for most of the Conservatives on this forum...
He beleives that Victory can be found by answering Hatred with MORE Hatred, and he can't see how wrong he is.....I do not want a person like that on my side, so if you want him..TAKE HIM !
Irony is usually not recognized by those who produce it.
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