Republican Nomination?

Originally posted by lord xyz
What the **** are you talking about?

You don't know what free market actually means. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Nah, there are stupid people who will buy it through manipulation etc, is that right?

Is illegal. Works much better with a strong government though, they are so easily corrupted.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Oh really? Here's a scenario for you, all the medical sellers in your area are too high for you to buy, you can't go to a different area and they don't care about lowering sales, you have a disease that they can cure, but won't unless you pay an unfair amount. You will die, unless there is some sort of system to ensure this doesn't happen.

So? If you want that system pay for it yourself. There would be insurances, great awesome people like you could donate to charitable organisations. You just can't steal money, it doesn't become different just because you find it moral.

Originally posted by lord xyz
So you admit you can't prove I'm wrong. Okay.

Nope never said that. You were making the positive statement though. Care to prove that?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Again with this working hard bullshit. Do you really think all rich people did that the honest way and are all really great people? Most rich people are corrupt bankers and hereited their parents wealth. Why are you so thoroughly defending rich people as if they're saints.

Enough did. And you punish those. Just cause you are envious of their wealth doesn't make it right for you to steal it. I am not defending rich people, I am defending everyone that gets robbed (by you and the government).

Originally posted by lord xyz
That only happens to people are can't contribute, and they will in the future.

It happens enough. 50+ percent of the money a person makes is stolen by the government. So the money gets stolen, and it gets given to those that don't contribute, if you are fine with that donate your own money.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Help them contribute.

Sure, you do that. Stop stealing money though.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I disagreee with that, unless necessary. Education is a good way to change people's minds.

You ****ing idiot. Once more what you reply to has nothing to do with what you say. THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING MONEY BY THE USE OF WEAPONS.

Originally posted by lord xyz
The more people the better.

That's bullshit. What do you base that on? How dandy it works in India?

Originally posted by lord xyz
I think that by saying this you are an idiot. Arrogant aswell.

Yeah, you do think that. But it doesn't matter cause people that can actually think know I am not an idiot. So...

Originally posted by Bardock42
You don't know what free market actually means. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Is illegal.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Works much better with a strong government though, they are so easily corrupted.

Originally posted by Bardock42
So? If you want that system pay for it yourself. There would be insurances, great awesome people like you could donate to charitable organisations. You just can't steal money, it doesn't become different just because you find it moral.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Nope never said that. You were making the positive statement though. Care to prove that?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Enough did. And you punish those. Just cause you are envious of their wealth doesn't make it right for you to steal it. I am not defending rich people, I am defending everyone that gets robbed (by you and the government).

Originally posted by Bardock42
It happens enough. 50+ percent of the money a person makes is stolen by the government. So the money gets stolen, and it gets given to those that don't contribute, if you are fine with that donate your own money.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sure, you do that. Stop stealing money though.

Originally posted by Bardock42
You ****ing idiot. Once more what you reply to has nothing to do with what you say. THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING MONEY BY THE USE OF WEAPONS.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's bullshit. What do you base that on? How dandy it works in India?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, you do think that. But it doesn't matter cause people that can actually think know I am not an idiot. So...

Originally posted by lord xyz
A market where the participants do what they want?

No.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Illegal? Ermm, free market, no government, no legality.

Didn't we say you educate yourself about free markets?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Easily corrupted, yes, that's why we can change them. The people should be in control of the government. That's what democracy is all about.

The people are in control of the government. That's why it's so corruptable. Besides, a dictatorship of the majority is still a dictatorship.

Originally posted by lord xyz
Why can't I steal money? It's for the greater good. At least you accept that

You say and think it is. I think it is actually for the greater bad. At least you are accepting that the government is robbing people of their money by the use of gun.

Originally posted by lord xyz
It was a question, actually.

Whatever. Going to prove that there was a free market before "democracy"?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Okay, you got me. It is stealing, subtle stealing, f-for the greater good. Stealing isn't absolutely evil.

It's your opinion that it is the greater good.

Originally posted by lord xyz
This has already been discussed.

No. It hasn't been. You earn money and lose MORE THAN HALF of it for an imaginary good. It is ridiculous.

Originally posted by lord xyz
For the greater good.

Your ****ing opinion. You can't ****ing steal everyone's money cause you say it is for the greater good. You are mugging people. They have every right to rebel and just say ****ing no. On top of that you punish the people that already carry society on their backs. The best citizens have to pay most. It's despicable.

Originally posted by lord xyz
I believe people are great, the more the better. India is a complex situation, they don't have enough money, for one.

And we do? Cause money just appears out of nothing? You don't steal it from someone to give it to some new child some poor ******* chose to get?

Originally posted by lord xyz
Nice, insult my thinking ability.

Thanks. Wish it would help more. Maybe you get embarassed enough to say stupid things in the long run.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think many would. But it is of no matter, because if not many would then a minority is forcing people to do so, which is even democratically wrong and not just logically and morally.

...and if people didn't have to, a good portion of people wouldn't pay taxes into police departments, firefighting, prisons & sanitation, I'd be the, "someone else will do it, I'm keeping what's mine" mentality; what kind of society would we have then?

-

Curious B42, what kind of idiot do you make XZY to be, as compared to the kind of idiot you make Dadudemon?

Originally posted by Robtard
...and if people didn't have to, a good portion of people wouldn't pay taxes into police departments, firefighting, prisons & sanitation, I'd be the, "someone else will do it, I'm keeping what's mine" mentality; what kind of society would we have then?

Just that those mutually benefit everyone. It is a fair trade off. I am open to anarchist ideas on that, but I accept a government on such a small scale, though one could explore possibilities for voluntary pay of it.

Originally posted by Robtard
Curious B42, what kind of idiot do you make XZY to be, as compared to the kind of idiot you make Dadudemon?

Haha, do you want an in-depth analysis of the idiocy in their character? I assume you just ask because I said "not the dadudemon" kind. What I meant with that was that i do not mean an idiot as defined by psychology (IQ of 25 or less (or something around there), but the more common "foolish person" definition. I do think they are both idiots though. But I'd have to think about it. Dadudemon and xyz seem to me to have a similar kind of stupidity actually. They are very self assured of their positions, whether they were thought through not at all or just close to absolutely not. They also like to participate in arguments they know little about. They also like to nitpick and try to find flaws in my argumentation (though, personally I find they fail horribly at that (not their fault really, my arguments are just sound)), probably because I did it to them multiple times (justified). Really, I'd have to think about it more, the two are not extremely different in my book though...i'd say xyz has potential to involve into a dadudemon. There are of course very different types of idiots.

Originally posted by Bardock42
True, but there seems to be an infinite amount of nice, social folks like you, xyz, capt-fantastic, captain king, etc. who are endlessly willing to steal money from rich people to give it to the poor.

If you guys got together and used your own money in a free market, you could achieve just as much without stealing from other people. Robin Hood is misunderstood, he didn't steal from the rich and gave to the poor. He stole from the government and gave to the people that paid for it.

This is where you're wrong. I don't want to steal money to give to the poor. I want to "steal" money and give it to everyone. You think charity is my hang up? Realistically, I'm just as selfish as you are. But my selfishness is overridden by the logic of everyone benefitting, coupled with the reality of the existence of government.

Originally posted by Devil King
This is where you're wrong. I don't want to steal money to give to the poor. I want to "steal" money and give it to everyone.

Rich people don't profit from it. They just pay. So, yeah, you just give it to poor people.

Originally posted by Devil King
You think charity is my hang up?

It should be with the arguments you bring.

Originally posted by Devil King
Realistically, I'm just as selfish as you are.

Actually, you and people that support your stance are more selfish. You want other people to pay for shit you support.

Originally posted by Devil King
But my selfishness is overridden by the logic of everyone benefitting, coupled with the reality of the existence of government.

As said before, that is true for giving up the right to murder people. It is not for Robbed education and Stolen Health Care.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Rich people don't profit from it. They just pay. So, yeah, you just give it to poor people.

Rich people go to public schools, as well as poor. Rich people drive and use stop lights and take huge advantage of government incintives to reinvest their money in new businesses. Just because many rich people get a better quality education because they decide not to take advantage of the public system doesn't mean that they have no access to it.

Originally posted by Bardock42
It should be with the arguments you bring.

The arguments I "bring"?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Actually, you and people that support your stance are more selfish. You want other people to pay for shit you support.

Strong words from someone with a freedom = anarchy sig. I want other people to pay, just as I do, for programs that benefit all of us.

Did you never quite get over recieving your first paycheck and finding out the government took some of your money?

Originally posted by Bardock42
As said before, that is true for giving up the right to murder people. It is not for Robbed education and Stolen Health Care.

Then by all means, continue to assume that Ron Paul is going to be leading the revolution that will charge capitol hill and bring America back to the Americans. The record breaking donations are made by a record breaking number of contributors that have no real idea what Ron Paul wants to do with their government, much less their society.

You can take personally our difference of opinion, but the fact remains that you're sitting there, telling everyone that public education = theft from people with no kids. And the truth of the matter is that you want to deny generations to come the benefit of a public education you've already recieved. You want to leave the future of the country in the hands of people who feel like they've been stolen from to pay for their neighbor's child's education. Got money? Willing to take out a loan to get educated? Then the future is yours! Except if that's the only way to do it, you'll have an entire nation up to it's eyeballs in debt 15 years before they ever get out the door to earn a dime.

Originally posted by Devil King
Rich people go to public schools, as well as poor.

Yes, but they pay way more for an education they could get much better.

Originally posted by Devil King
Rich people drive and use stop lights and take huge advantage of government incintives to reinvest their money in new businesses.

I never said they got nothing out of it. They lose more than they get though.

Originally posted by Devil King
Just because many rich people get a better quality education because they decide not to take advantage of the public system doesn't mean that they have no access to it.

Yeah, but you realize that is exactly like a homeless guy standing on a traffic light with some water, making your windshield dirtier and then demanding money, right?

Originally posted by Devil King
The arguments I "bring"?

Bring up.

Originally posted by Devil King
Strong words from someone with a freedom = anarchy sig. I want other people to pay, just as I do, for programs that benefit all of us.

Welfare doesn't benefit all people. Health Care doesn't benefit all people (in fact it might make it worse for everyone). It's just not that simple. You don't get back what you receive, certainly not if you make a lot of money. You want people to pay for programs you force them to accept that might not benefit them at all.

Oh and it is not a Freedom = Anarchy sig.

Originally posted by Devil King
Did you never quite get over recieving your first paycheck and finding out the government took some of your money?

I actually never made enough money for the government to take it away. Odd, eh? I benefit the most, give the least and still find the system is incredibly unfair.

Originally posted by Devil King
Then by all means, continue to assume that Ron Paul is going to be leading the revolution that will charge capitol hill and bring America back to the Americans. The record breaking donations are made by a record breaking number of contributors that have no real idea what Ron Paul wants to do with their government, much less their society.

I don't believe that. I believe there should be changes. I doubt he will get far anywhere. And I know what Ron Paul wants to do...I am even more radical. You might have noticed by now.

Have to admit, Ron Paul does draw some of the kookiest nutjob supporters, not saying he's necessarily guilty by association, but there it is. He's been repeatively on the conspiracy-nutjob Alex Jones' show, the lastest conspriracy, 'the higher government is planning Ron Paul's assassination, because he's spreading the truth.'

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, but you realize that is exactly like a homeless guy standing on a traffic light with some water, making your windshield dirtier and then demanding money, right?

Okay. So what do we do about the homeless guy?

Not your problem, right?

Originally posted by Bardock42
I actually never made enough money for the government to take it away. Odd, eh? I benefit the most, give the least and still find the system is incredibly unfair.

You mean, because you've been educated enough to find it unfair?

I think we consider too much the good luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm.

The school is the last expenditure upon which America should be willing to economize.

The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.

-FDR

Originally posted by Devil King
Okay. So what do we do about the homeless guy?

Not your problem, right?

I think you misunderstood the metaphor.

Originally posted by Devil King
You mean, because you've been educated enough to find it unfair?

Yeah, I got it all shoved up. I didn't just think better than others. Education was a blessing. It's easy to say I have it well so whatever was done was good, but the likely possibility that I would have been much better off without it is never considered. The public schools are failing. A free market alternative is certainly to be considered. It is likely better for everyone and it is certainly less unfair.

Originally posted by Robtard
Have to admit, Ron Paul does draw some of the kookiest nutjob supporters, not saying he's necessarily guilty by association, but there it is. He's been repeatively on the conspiracy-nutjob Alex Jones' show, the lastest conspriracy, 'the higher government is planning Ron Paul's assassination, because he's spreading the truth.'

Oh I agree. I don't even agree with all he is saying. He's just by far the best you have to offer in the major parties.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think you misunderstood the metaphor.

No, I understood it. I just realize the less obvious problem, the unaddressed problem in it, is the homeless guy.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, I got it all shoved up. I didn't just think better than others. Education was a blessing. It's easy to say I have it well so whatever was done was good, but the likely possibility that I would have been much better off without it is never considered. The public schools are failing. A free market alternative is certainly to be considered. It is likely better for everyone and it is certainly less unfair.

I'm affraid I don't know what "all shoved up" means in this case. I didn't say you didn't do well because you're an articulate, intelligent guy. In fact, I'm sure you excelled because of it. But I am addressing the fact that you could/did excel because it was available to you. And I'm not even saying you or your parents weren't willing to take out a loan to put you through middle school. The reality that a government exists only to solve crimes and keep the peace isn't what got you to where you are.

Yes, the public schools are failing miserably in this country. But there's no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh I agree. I don't even agree with all he is saying. He's just by far the best you have to offer in the major parties.

and as you said in an earlier post, "the lesser evil is still evil."

Originally posted by Devil King
No, I understood it. I just realize the less obvious problem, the unaddressed problem in it, is the homeless guy.

Yeah, well, I think the real problem is the government though. Not homeless people.

Originally posted by Devil King
I'm affraid I don't know what "all shoved up" means in this case.

It doesn't matter.

Originally posted by Devil King
I didn't say you didn't do well because you're an articulate, intelligent guy. In fact, I'm sure you excelled because of it.

I never did well actually. Still don't.

Originally posted by Devil King
But I am addressing the fact that you could/did excel because it was available to you.

But that is assuming that I couldn't excel even further in a system as I propose it. It is saying whatever you have now is because you had public education available. While the truth might be that whatever I have now I would have in a system of private education as well and more.

Originally posted by Devil King
And I'm not even saying you or your parents weren't willing to take out a loan to put you through middle school.

That's just one of the many possibilities I believe would surface.

Originally posted by Devil King
The reality that a government exists only to solve crimes and keep the peace isn't what got you to where you are.

It is not a reality. It is a proposal that I and some others believe would make life better and fairer for everyone.

Originally posted by Devil King
Yes, the public schools are failing miserably in this country. But there's no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water.

There are multiple reasons for just that though.

Originally posted by Robtard
and as you said in an earlier post, "the lesser evil is still evil."

Haha, yeah. I don't think he is evil though. I think there is a personal line somewhere where something goes from evil to neutral and one where it goes from neutral to good and of course one where it is perfect (that would be my opinion compared to my opinion).

Originally posted by Devil King
Ron Paul has already denied that he believes 9/11 was a conspiracy.

Heil Hitler!

please provide evidence of that for me to see.I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears on a video at youtube he wants to open it up so this would be news to me if you have proof of that.We got to get Ron Paul in.

He is the ONLY candidate of EITHER party who wants to abolish the federal reserve and the IRS and as i said before,is the only one who has never raised taxes.He was running as an independent because he is aware of how both parties only represent big business and big government and not the people, but independents never win so he decided to run on the republican ticket since he was originally a republican.

Glad to see there are others out there as well aware of how important it is to get Ron Paul in there as well as the polls show.Whats depressing is how people dont know about the real Guliano and have put in as many votes for him.Mccain would be bad enough,he is very corrupted but Guliano is an extremely evil and corrupted man.if he or Hillary gets in,were screwed BIG TIME. 🙁

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yeah, well, I think the real problem is the government though. Not homeless people.

So, the government is what keeps people homeless? I wouldn't deny that a lot of our system keeps people homeless. But, as I've asked from the beginning of our conversation, I'd like to know how a feasible government is going to prevent it from happening, and remedying it as it is now.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I never did well actually. Still don't.

Still don't? As in to imply you're still in school? And the only reason you haven't been kicked out is because you're paying for it? Or are you just coasting along with a C average? (Or whatever it is in your country) Personally, I think it's a ****ing shame that most people in this country, like our current President, only get a college level education because it's the only way you can get a leg up in our system. (granted, he had much more going for him....which is why I feel your solution is an inane one that would propogate this kind of situation) It's the only way to be taken seriously, and as it is, you're finishing college at least 40K in the red. (or in your system, 40K in the red after middle school)

Originally posted by Bardock42
But that is assuming that I couldn't excel even further in a system as I propose it. It is saying whatever you have now is because you had public education available. While the truth might be that whatever I have now I would have in a system of private education as well and more.

Sure, you could excel in your system. And by the time you're prepared to undertake a course of study that will result in a degree for your specific area of interest, you'll be up to your eyeballs in debt, paying off student loans from kindergarten at 18%. (unless you think a private buisness like a bank should have it's interest rates set for it by the state government)

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's just one of the many possibilities I believe would surface.

Well, it's the only one we've really talked about. What are some others?

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is not a reality. It is a proposal that I and some others believe would make life better and fairer for everyone.

I know it's not a reality. And, personally, I'm glad it isn't.

Originally posted by Bardock42
There are multiple reasons for just that though.

Not when the baby is public education.

Devil I assume you ARE going to answer my question I posed ya? 😉