Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Still no reason to assume he's any stronger than Despero. Out muscling Superman, Captain Marvel and Wonder woman at the same time easily puts him up with Thanos.Besides doesn't despero use the flame of pytar to augment his strength?
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And Surfer has a weakness to cosmic energy or something? Where does this Surfer is indestructible thing come from? I know he's taken supernovas and what not, but all top tiers survive things like that at some point in their career. They can still be downed by a powerful enough punch.
SS can amp his abilities aswell
Originally posted by Tenebrousqft
don't need to. it's already established that surfer can transmute matter. this is fact.what ISN'T established is whether despero can defend against transmutation though telekenesis. This is conjecture. You need to prove that he can do this.
I don't need to prove that surfer can transmute someone "as powerful as despero" because that implicitly means that surfer's ability to transmute is negatively related to the target's powerlevel. This may or may not be the case but I don't need to refute the idea because the point is not whether surfer can transmute, because obviously, he can.
the point is whether despero can defend against the transmutations. has he ever used tk to do that? has he used tk to manipulate matter on the molecular level to his will?
and again all of despero's abilities to defend via tk, soul hop, etc. are useless if surfer executes his tactics with his superior speed.
how are you going to address the nanosecond reaction/reflex time of the surfer? can despero act that quickly?
If you can prove that he can use tk to manipulate matter, you then have to prove that he can react/execute his tk defense quickly enough to be delivered within very same nanosecond that surfer tries to transmute him.
the only way despero can resist transmutation is if he has higher control over his own molecules than the surfer can alter, if not....despero gets turned into a warm bucket of lard.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
qftthe only way despero can resist transmutation is if he has higher control over his own molecules than the surfer can alter, if not....despero gets turned into a warm bucket of lard.
Despero would pwn Surfer with TP. Or use his own vast tk powers to resist molecular disruption.
Originally posted by fangirl101
Despero would pwn Surfer with TP. Or use his own vast tk powers to resist molecular disruption.
And what uber showings of TK does Despero have to his credit?
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer not only has some kickass mental defenses, he also has the ability to absorb psychic energy directly. How exactly will Despero put him down with it?And what uber showings of TK does Despero have to his credit?
He's the far superior of Martain Manhunter. Who has plenty of uber showings of TP. martain manhunter's mental defenses are far superior to the surfers. And he still gets pwned. Absorbing Psychich energy is fine. He should do that more often. like when the Goddess turned him into her puppet.
Originally posted by fangirl101
He's the far superior of Martain Manhunter. Who has plenty of uber showings of TP. martain manhunter's mental defenses are far superior to the surfers. And he still gets pwned. Absorbing Psychich energy is fine. He should do that more often. like when the Goddess turned him into her puppet.
An you never answered about Despero's uber TP showings.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Hasn't MM messed with Despero's head almost as much as vice versa(I know I can think of at least one instance)? And just because there are instances where Surfer DIDN'T absorb psychic energy doesn't take away from his ability to do so. Truth be told I don't even think he ever HAD absorbed psychic energy at the time of the Infinity Crusade, the instance I'm thinking of came long after that arc was over.An you never answered about Despero's uber TP showings.
As I said, Despero has pwned MM a couple of times. And MM has the uber showings. He's far above MM. Also, MM had to use a plot device showing to "pwn" Despero by granting him his hearts desire.
Originally posted by fangirl101Surfer never gets owned by telepathy as far as I've seen. He's resisted Moondragon w/ Mind Gem's attacks. He broke out of the Goddess' manipulations over him. Keep in mind, the Goddess was using 5 Cosmic Containment Units and Moondragon's Mind Gem to brainwash everyone. I've only seen Psycho Man toy with an exiled Surfer. And as soon as he figured out he was being manipulated, he turned it back on him.
Despero would pwn Surfer with TP. Or use his own vast tk powers to resist molecular disruption.
I think Surfer, readying himself for a fight, would never get mind-raped. At least not by a foe like Despero, despite Despero's vast telepathic power.
Originally posted by fangirl101
As I said, Despero has pwned MM a couple of times. And MM has the uber showings. He's far above MM. Also, MM had to use a plot device showing to "pwn" Despero by granting him his hearts desire.
And I'm still waiting on the TK feats...
Originally posted by darthgoober30 CCU? 😕
Surfer drove off the fear eater, resisted a blast from Moondragon w/mind gem, and broke out of the telepathic control of 30 cosmic cubes... he's got some nice showings against TP. And that's without directly absorbing the psychic energy(which he's fully capable of). I've never seen anything from Despero that indicates he could own someone with TP that has those kinds of mental defenses. Didn't Aquaman give him a tough time in a strait up TP battle?And I'm still waiting on the TK feats...
Guess I need to reread 'Infinity Crusade' again. 😮
Originally posted by dvampire
He transmuted the rocks around DD and Spiderman.Show me a scan of Surfer Transmuting some please?
Oh and Despero wins.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4488/silversurferannual0214mn4.jpg
He transmutated Ghaur from protoplasmic cloud into a deviant.. The scans prior to this page is when it happened unfortunately i dont have it so this would have to do...
I find it highly unlikely that Despero would own Surfer via tp.. His encountered/fought cosmic beings with vast telepathic powers and always managed to counter those abilities..
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
30 CCU? 😕Guess I need to reread 'Infinity Crusade' again. 😮
Originally posted by darthgoober
Surfer drove off the fear eater, resisted a blast from Moondragon w/mind gem, and broke out of the telepathic control of 30 cosmic cubes... he's got some nice showings against TP. And that's without directly absorbing the psychic energy(which he's fully capable of). I've never seen anything from Despero that indicates he could own someone with TP that has those kinds of mental defenses. Didn't Aquaman give him a tough time in a strait up TP battle?And I'm still waiting on the TK feats...
I seem to remember aquaman being able to pwn an angel with TP. And he also fought despero with J'ONN in a tp battle. Moondragon with the Mind gem has never been impressive to me. She gets resisted and pwned far too much for anyone to use her as a feat. As for the containment units, I do not think Goddess used the units to control the heroes. Maybe I'm wrong. She was busy trying to brain wash the universe. She couldn't even defend herself on multiple fronts. She had to concentrate. Which may be why surfer broke free of her control.
Originally posted by fangirl101
I seem to remember aquaman being able to pwn an angel with TP. And he also fought despero with J'ONN in a tp battle. Moondragon with the Mind gem has never been impressive to me. She gets resisted and pwned far too much for anyone to use her as a feat. As for the containment units, I do not think Goddess used the units to control the heroes. Maybe I'm wrong. She was busy trying to brain wash the universe. She couldn't even defend herself on multiple fronts. She had to concentrate. Which may be why surfer broke free of her control.
TK scans...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Are the heroes not part of the universe?TK scans...
Despero used his TK against EASG. I'm not scanning anything. His respect thread already has them. He also used it to knock back SG. I'll look up more. But I know those off top of my head. Oh and the Goddesses Tp wasn't that great. She surely didn't get ahold of everyone. Just those with spiritual or faith based beliefs.
Originally posted by fangirl101What makes you think the goddess's tp wasnt that great? What supports this theory?
Despero used his TK against EASG. I'm not scanning anything. His respect thread already has them. He also used it to knock back SG. I'll look up more. But I know those off top of my head. Oh and the Goddesses Tp wasn't that great. She surely didn't get ahold of everyone. Just those with spiritual or faith based beliefs.
