Gorgon vs. Gamora

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
😬

The majority of Gorgon's appearances were spent killing a few hand ninjas, and a ton of generic, nameless SHIELD soldiers. Hell, he didn't actually do much impressive beyond taking out Wolverine and Elektra... and none of that would even leave Gamora with a drop of sweat. You're going to need to find something a little more impressive before you even begin to think of beating her... much less ass-kicking.

Originally posted by capt it up
how about beign able to move at the speed of thought or beign able to read others mind or beign stated of having superhuman strength, or be a dead man with a huge healign factor

*sigh*

1. Gamora, both before her power up and since is extremley fast, and probably stronger then Gorgon
2. For the last time, we're debating the no-telepathy match
3. And, again, the fact that he's dead means little. He can still take damage.

Originally posted by jinzin
again i ask you to prove her healing factor is on par with logan.. if she can't recover from a drop of blood, from a skeleton, from having her head cut off, or being incinerated then it's not on par with logans..
prove that it is... please, I'm all for you proving this beyond some comment logan made over a decade ago that doesn't even matter nowdays.. but go ahead..

Originally posted by jinzin
again logan's healing factor allows his spirit to reclaim life, without his HF to heal so completely from practically nothing he's have nothing to come back to, other people with healing factors die, when they die so do their healing factors.. wolverine's doesn't... it endures..

Originally posted by jinzin
no it's not comparible.. it's a FACT that wolverine's mutation progresed without his admantium.. he's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then what he used to be: not comparible..

Originally posted by jinzin
it IS impossible to injure him though.. show one time where he was injured.. 😐

Originally posted by jinzin
he took plenty of punishment so it shouldn't be hard.. unless... 😏

Originally posted by jinzin
well that's what i would be saying if cap could prove he was a superior fighter.. which he hasn't.. lame counter on your behalf.. moving on.

Originally posted by jinzin
and the one showing she DOES have against a skilled opponent on cap's level had her at a stalmate.. geeee willy! 😄

Let's think of it like this, what are Gorgon's major h2h accomplishments?

Originally posted by jinzin

again logan's healing factor allows his spirit to reclaim life, without his HF to heal so completely from practically nothing he's have nothing to come back to, other people with healing factors die, when they die so do their healing factors.. wolverine's doesn't... it endures..

no it's not comparible.. it's a FACT that wolverine's mutation progresed without his admantium.. he's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then what he used to be: not comparible..

it IS impossible to injure him though.. show one time where he was injured.. 😐

he took plenty of punishment so it shouldn't be hard.. unless... 😏

well that's what i would be saying if cap could prove he was a superior fighter.. which he hasn't.. lame counter on your behalf.. moving on.

It doesn't matter if she had the spiritual healing factor anyways though... even if she did, the physical healing factor (which she is equal to, by Wolverine's own admission). Beyond that, this most recent upgrade has left her with apparent major durability upgrades anyways.

It's not as if Wolverine wasn't accelling in the healing factor department back then... your downplaying it as if it's a minor capability.

Please... just because you think a bunch of kill-with-a-pillow SHIELD soldiers that he killed (who are apparently, according to Srank, worth (or was it Jinzin... whoever I was debating with in the Foot vs. Hand thread) 1/10th of a single Hand ninja) couldn't do much damage to him, you equate that to being entirley invulnerable? 🙄

Well, it seems that the main argument for Wolverine's skill is that he's hand tons of expierience with tons of different styles of MA... it's the same thing with Gamora, only extrapolated.

Originally posted by darthgoober
My proof is Wolverine's assessment. Or do you not accept Wolverine's assessment's of his abilities as proof or not, because he's said plenty about himself that I disagree with.

I'm not familiar of the intricacies of Wolverine's recton, but according to capt, his spiritual healing factor is a secondary mutation. That means that it's two separate powers. So the spiritual healing factor brings him back to life, until his physical healing factor has time to heal his wounds. As I said, ANY healing factor would heal someone in an instance like that, it would just be a matter of time.

Well then on par with what it was at the time. He still had some ridiculous healing feats during that period, so her healing factor is still impressive.

Wait, you mean that NO ONE was able to injure him? Then how was he beaten?

She can deal out plenty of punishment(just ask Drax or Maxam) so I'm sure she's covered.

He does on average if you think about it. You guys are always going on about Wolverine knowing all those styles like it means something, but in a situation like this, the rules get flipped suddenly.

It's a stretch to call that a stalemate. It lasted like 3 seconds, so it's not like they went toe to toe for a while before it got broken up.

your proof is faulty..
one: wolverine was unaware of what his healing factor is really capible of due to admantium poisoning..
two: his statment has no value because his healing factor today is heads and shoulders above what it was at that time.. why do i have to explain this to you?

I have no idea why cap relates his spiritual healing factor (what the hell is a spiritual healing factor anyways?) as a secondary mutation.. nothing has been stated to equate to that..

when wolverine dies his soul wonders until he can consciously revoke "the light" when he does, his healing factors kick starts.. it allows him to come back from practically nothing..
if gamora's hf can't do that then she's not on par.. that simple.

he was defeated by dues ex-machina undone by his own superpower...
wiat so your arguing against him even though you're unaware of his abilities? doh

and she can deal all the punishment she wants.. point is it won't register on gorgon.. she can't in turn say the same about him though.. that that's a problem.

what do you mean by "he does on average"? you just said cap was superior to logan in fighting ability.. thus far I have yet to see that..
your argument relies on benefit of the doubt.. that doesn't account as fact.

is it as much of a stretch as pretending cheap shots on drax are fights?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
It doesn't matter if she had the spiritual healing factor anyways though... even if she did, the physical healing factor (which she is equal to, by Wolverine's own admission). Beyond that, this most recent upgrade has left her with apparent major durability upgrades anyways.

It's not as if Wolverine wasn't accelling in the healing factor department back then... your downplaying it as if it's a minor capability.

Please... just because you think a bunch of kill-with-a-pillow SHIELD soldiers that he killed (who are apparently, according to Srank, worth (or was it Jinzin... whoever I was debating with in the Foot vs. Hand thread) 1/10th of a single Hand ninja) couldn't do much damage to him, you equate that to being entirley invulnerable? 🙄

Well, it seems that the main argument for Wolverine's skill is that he's hand tons of expierience with tons of different styles of MA... it's the same thing with Gamora, only extrapolated.

can she take more punishment then wolverine?
can she heal from things as bad or as fast as wolverine?
the answer to both questions is no.. so she's STILL not on par with him...

and no, I'm not downplaying wolverine's healing factor.. he had a good healing factor.. but let's think geometrically here..

if gamora's hf was on par with wolverine's of the 1990's and gorgon took it to wolverine with a much more enhanced hf then his 1990 counterpart... well then her HF doesn't account for much here does it?

the value of the shield agents is inconsequential, you're logic has more holes then swiss cheese...

if it was a CHILD that shot gorgon with multiple rockets, the rockets would have done the same amount of damage... gorgon wasn't damaged that's the point.. no one said he's invulnerable.. just that damage doesn't effect him..

his proof of skill is concerned with the people he fights as well, when he's punking out guys like shang chi effortlessly, and guys who put iron fist down like a baby.. well...

http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badmoveyn5.jpg
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=army3vd0.jpg
http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=army4cl4.jpg

Don't have any feats of Gorgons....but i'll assume that he and Gamora are at least equal in strength

Wolverine crashed into Gorgon at 100mph and then dropped him 20 stories and he didn't even register it... and the whole time Wolverine was skewering him with his claws. Gorgon is a walking corpses, he is impervious to damage, aside from incinerating him or a handy Dues Ex-machina devices he is pretty much unbeatable.

Gamora isn't Quicksilver, her speed is low level superhuman if not peak human, she had no ranged options and needs to fight in melee combat. If she fights Gorgon, she is going to get hit and she isn't going to shrug of the damange like Gorgon will.

Originally posted by jinzin
your proof is faulty..
one: wolverine was unaware of what his healing factor is really capible of due to admantium poisoning..
two: his statment has no value because his healing factor today is heads and shoulders above what it was at that time.. why do i have to explain this to you?

I have no idea why cap relates his spiritual healing factor (what the hell is a spiritual healing factor anyways?) as a secondary mutation.. nothing has been stated to equate to that..

when wolverine dies his soul wonders until he can consciously revoke "the light" when he does, his healing factors kick starts.. it allows him to come back from practically nothing..
if gamora's hf can't do that then she's not on par.. that simple.

and she can deal all the punishment she wants.. point is it won't register on gorgon.. she can't in turn say the same about him though.. that that's a problem.

what do you mean by "he does on average"? you just said cap was superior to logan in fighting ability.. thus far I have yet to see that..
your argument relies on benefit of the doubt.. that doesn't account as fact.

is it as much of a stretch as pretending cheap shots on drax are fights?

Get your head out of your ass Jinzin. We've been saying for the last few posts repeatedly that Gamora's healing factor is on par with what Wolverine's was back then... which is still no small addition. As well, she has shown pretty high durability post-upgrade

If you look at my last post, it shouldn't matter anyways...

He has a healing factor... not invulnerability. Show me proof of him, or anybody, saying that he is in fact invulnerable. The fact that a bunch of cuddle bears in SHIELD outfits didn't do more then minimal damage does not impress. 😬

Cap demonstrates more skill with his fighting on average... Wolverine slashes a bunch, growls and says bub. There is the occaision where he demonstrates skill, for sure. Apparently this is because he knows all the MA on earth... but it's about quality, not quantity, right Jinzin?

No, she's had actual full out battles with Drax.
Wait... you mean your making accusations about a fight without even knowing anything about it? doh

This is going nowhere...

Time for scans. Let's see some real MA feats of Gorgon's

Ugh! Triple Post. Sorry guys

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine crashed into Gorgon at 100mph and then dropped him 20 stories and he didn't even register it... and the whole time Wolverine was skewering him with his claws. Gorgon is a walking corpses, he is impervious to damage, aside from incinerating him or a handy Dues Ex-machina devices he is pretty much unbeatable.

Gamora isn't Quicksilver, her speed is low level superhuman if not peak human, she had no ranged options and needs to fight in melee combat. If she fights Gorgon, she is going to get hit and she isn't going to shrug of the damange like Gorgon will.

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3004bk3.jpg

Ranged Attack that stumbled Rhonan

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3005xy3.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3006gn1.jpg

Shrugs off a hit from Rhonan

http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3007vz4.jpg

Peak human speed my Arse

Ugh! Triple Post. Sorry guys

Originally posted by Martian_mind
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3004bk3.jpg

Ranged Attack that stumbled Rhonan

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3005xy3.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3006gn1.jpg

Shrugs off a hit from Rhonan

http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annihilationronan3007vz4.jpg

Peak human speed my Arse

I thought that blue aura was coming from Ronan when I read it... he did a similar fuzzy blue energy thing a bunch of times in Annihilation. Anyway not much of a "range" attack when you are less then two feet away from someone.

She has some nice blunt trauma damage soak to be sure, too bad Gorgon uses a sword.

... What I'm I supposed to be looking at here? Jumping is a strenght feat, not speed. Nothing there suggests super speed, she Rhino charged Ronan while he was getting up... which is once again more of a strength thing.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine crashed into Gorgon at 100mph and then dropped him 20 stories and he didn't even register it... and the whole time Wolverine was skewering him with his claws.

He shouldn't have 'registered' it, because he doesn't register pain. You've now become self-defeating with your arguments. However, that doesn't equate to being impervious to damage. Given enough damage, his body will still blackout, which is a win for Gamora. Just because you can't feel yourself being beaten into a bloody pulp doesn't mean it's not happening

Originally posted by jinzin
your proof is faulty..
one: wolverine was unaware of what his healing factor is really capible of due to admantium poisoning..
two: his statment has no value because his healing factor today is heads and shoulders above what it was at that time.. why do i have to explain this to you?

I have no idea why cap relates his spiritual healing factor (what the hell is a spiritual healing factor anyways?) as a secondary mutation.. nothing has been stated to equate to that..

when wolverine dies his soul wonders until he can consciously revoke "the light" when he does, his healing factors kick starts.. it allows him to come back from practically nothing..
if gamora's hf can't do that then she's not on par.. that simple.

he was defeated by dues ex-machina undone by his own superpower...
wiat so your arguing against him even though you're unaware of his abilities? doh

and she can deal all the punishment she wants.. point is it won't register on gorgon.. she can't in turn say the same about him though.. that that's a problem.

what do you mean by "he does on average"? you just said cap was superior to logan in fighting ability.. thus far I have yet to see that..
your argument relies on benefit of the doubt.. that doesn't account as fact.

is it as much of a stretch as pretending cheap shots on drax are fights?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Get your head out of your ass Jinzin. We've been saying for the last few posts repeatedly that Gamora's healing factor is on par with what Wolverine's was back then... which is still no small addition. As well, she has shown pretty high durability post-upgrade

If you look at my last post, it shouldn't matter anyways...

He has a healing factor... not invulnerability. Show me proof of him, or anybody, saying that he is in fact invulnerable. The fact that a bunch of cuddle bears in SHIELD outfits didn't do more then minimal damage does not impress. 😬

Cap demonstrates more skill with his fighting on average... Wolverine slashes a bunch, growls and says bub. There is the occaision where he demonstrates skill, for sure. Apparently this is because he knows all the MA on earth... but it's about quality, not quantity, right Jinzin?

No, she's had actual full out battles with Drax.
Wait... you mean your making accusations about a fight without even knowing anything about it? doh

This is going nowhere...

Time for scans. Let's see some real MA feats of Gorgon's

that's a tad bit uncalled for...

lets not get frustrated with me because you have a hard time following trains of thought... gorgons HF was brought up and it was retaliated that she has one too.. but like beasts "healing factor" and spiderman's "healing factor"... if she takes damage in this fight her "healing factor" won't matter.. that's all my point is...
current wolverine couldn't keep up with the punishment that gorgon was dishing out what chance does gamora have if her best feat of a HF is being on par with classic admantiumized wolverine? none.. that's what.

and again.. clearly..he's not invulnerable.. BUT wolverine does discuss how much has gone into taking gorgon down, what gorgon's been hit with and how NONE of it's effecting him.. and....
AGAIN.. it's not the shield agents that matter.. it's the weapons that they were using on gorgon, the weapons that they were hitting him with.. nothing was working.. that SHOULD impress... if a toddler presses a button and a nuke hits wolverine in the face and he does't even register it as a threat that should impress.. whether the toddler pushed the botton or not.. why is that so hard to follow for you.. oh that's right.. the trains of thought just keep missing your station.. my bad.. next time I'll draw ou out a map in crayon.. okay?
okay.. 😉

I do not believe that cap displays more skills on average.. he just displays skills more often then logan.. their feats of skill are roughly comparible.. and wolverine in direct comparisons has been shown superior.. so...
yeah..

and uh.. no.. i'm doing nothing of the sort..
gamora had one battle that was anything close to an actual fight.. aaaaand it didn't even take place in a coporial realm.. her other encounters with him were cheap shots.. that doesn't equate to a fight.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Gamora isn't Quicksilver, her speed is low level superhuman if not peak human, she had no ranged options and needs to fight in melee combat. If she fights Gorgon, she is going to get hit and she isn't going to shrug of the damange like Gorgon will.

Taking down an entire UN platoon(at least, there may be more and they came complete with tanks no less) in 8 minutes implies more than peak human speed. And this was before her upgrade.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Here let's be logical about this, because we could run in circles all night. What are Gorgons major accomplishments without using his TP or Stone Gaze? And how has he been beaten in the past?

okay let's see...

he's trained blindfolded to fight multiple opponents.... that's just for skill.
he's faster in combat then wolverine or elektra.
he's been able to deflect automatic gunfire from 10 feet away.
he's broken a sword to pieces by biting on it.
he's manhandled elektra without losing his advantage or taking one hit whatsoever.
he KOed elektra, killed 12 shield agents, and temporarily dropped logan all at the same time before any of them could react.. AFTER he'd been hit with multiple smart rockets and had his house torched.
he got right up immediately after being dropped 20 stories and being knocked out a window by wolverine coming at him 100 mph.
he took multiple stabbings, cuts, lacerations without registration of them.
he's got a healing factor that allowed him to continue to cloober wolverine after being gutted.. he didn't have cut marks on his stomach seconds later.

that's all i can think of for now..

see the thing is, his feats don't need to be overly impressive..

his skills are obviously enough to at least contend with gamora if not completely stalemate or defeat her.

and his damage soak, healing factor, and undead nature allow him to take anything she's got in stride..

again, she only need make one mistake.. considering she's made that mistake against maxim, and wolverine.. thinking her to do that against gorgon isn't a stretch imo.

Originally posted by jinzin
that's a tad bit uncalled for...

lets not get frustrated with me because you have a hard time following trains of thought... gorgons HF was brought up and it was retaliated that she has one too.. but like beasts "healing factor" and spiderman's "healing factor"... if she takes damage in this fight her "healing factor" won't matter.. that's all my point is...
current wolverine couldn't keep up with the punishment that gorgon was dishing out what chance does gamora have if her best feat of a HF is being on par with classic admantiumized wolverine? none.. that's what.

and again.. clearly..he's not invulnerable.. BUT wolverine does discuss how much has gone into taking gorgon down, what gorgon's been hit with and how NONE of it's effecting him.. and....
AGAIN.. it's not the shield agents that matter.. it's the weapons that they were using on gorgon, the weapons that they were hitting him with.. nothing was working.. that SHOULD impress... if a toddler presses a button and a nuke hits wolverine in the face and he does't even register it as a threat that should impress.. whether the toddler pushed the botton or not.. why is that so hard to follow for you.. oh that's right.. the trains of thought just keep missing your station.. my bad.. next time I'll draw ou out a map in crayon.. okay?
okay.. 😉

I do not believe that cap displays more skills on average.. he just displays skills more often then logan.. their feats of skill are roughly comparible.. and wolverine in direct comparisons has been shown superior.. so...
yeah..

and uh.. no.. i'm doing nothing of the sort..
gamora had one battle that was anything close to an actual fight.. aaaaand it didn't even take place in a coporial realm.. her other encounters with him were cheap shots.. that doesn't equate to a fight.

Perhaps, and I take back the head-out-of-your-ass comment.

But it wasn't because I can't follow a train of thought. You've been arguing the useless point of Wolverine's healing factor right now being a bit better then back then (good job 👆 ), and you only now decided to make the point at all considerably relevant by saying that Wolverine couldn't handle it with a better healing factor. But that is STILL, for all purposes, a waste of time to post, because we're not dealing with Wolverine here. We're dealing with a much, much better fighter. It still helps Gamora, as she will assuredly be getting owned by him MUCH less then Wolverine.

I made the second point about the SHIELD agents not in reference to your off-panel hyperbole-of-a-feat, but instead to the fact that, as I right this post, I have not yet seen a single feat from any of you, accept for retracted claims that he is impossible to damage.
How about next time you actually read the post, and THEN make an ass of yourself? Mkay, thanks. 😉

😕 You don't believe Cap displays more skills on average, you just think he displays skills more in general. 🤨

Good job, ace 👆

And yet it was still all real battling... only Drax was more powerful... so.... what's your point? 😕