Originally posted by fini
KALI is not a demon, she is the uncontrollable part of Shiva.
I never said Kali was a demon, I clearly stated she was a Goddess who slayed demons.....
Originally posted by fini
And in hindu mythology, once God or God incarnate has killed someone, they will reach "heaven", whether it be man, beast or Demon. Why? Because everything is here for a reason, for a balance, you can't only have good. There has to be good and evil on earth in other for God to come to earth and set things right. There is another reason here, but unless you want to here it, I wont put it in.
Kali kills so that evil (and good) may have a chance to be reborn. It's all part of the mythology of reincarnation, I am aware.
Originally posted by fini
For example, in the Ramayana, Ram kills the Demon king, Ravana. ANd hence he goes to heaven. Why? this is a two fold answer,
1. Because God killed him
2. He was a holy man. Ravana was once very religious and endured many fasts to appease the gods. One god was pleased with his sacrifice and gave him a boon( gift). This gift made Ravana think he was invincible and thus lust for power over took him.
Interesting
Originally posted by fini
Just like how Jesus "saved" the unrighteous while he was here, same thing in hinduism, only god can send anything to heaven
So techincally, according to Hinduism, a demon CAN reach Heaven....as long as a God allows it....
Originally posted by FeceMan
I don't know.The Bible is fairly vague on the subject of demons (and, to a lesser extent, angels), as we, as humans, are not supposed to screw with them. I believe that, yes, they could, but Satan has deceived them into thinking that God will not forgive them and/or that they will one day be able to usurp God.
However, the slightly confusing part about fallen angels is that they know what's coming for them, and yet they don't seem to do anything. Maybe their wills are so twisted and evil from their fall that they delight only in wickedness now and spurn God willingly.
I think this is probably the best way of putting it. They hate God, and will never ask for forgiveness. And with their hate for God, they will do anything they can to oppose him.
Or more simply put...
God can't force them to change, because if he did then he wouldn't be loving. And they don't want to change or be forgiven(well maybe not that much more simply put).
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really. The Bible makes it quite clear that it doesn't matter where the suggestion comes from because we always have the option of refusing and resisting. Added to that is that it is made clear that God always provides a way out, so we are 100% responsible meaning no evil from that way of thinking. In fact it is far stricter than amoral system.
In Buddhism it is simple: Wrongful thinking leads to wrongful actions. What that means is you do something evil and you pay for it now in this or in the next life time. There is no forgiveness; your karma is the karma you make.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In Buddhism it is simple: Wrongful thinking leads to wrongful actions. What that means is you do something evil and you pay for it now in this or in the next life time. There is no forgiveness; your karma is the karma you make.
Don't you think that seems a bit extreme though. If there's no forgiveness, then where's the love? A religion which motivates people to care more about themselves and their "karma" is not very loving..IMO.
Originally posted by Thundar
Don't you think that seems a bit extreme though. If there's no forgiveness, then where's the love? A religion which motivates people to care more about themselves and their "karma" is not very loving..IMO.
What does love have to to do with forgiveness? Please know that I am talking about the kind of forgiveness that a Christian would talk about. Of course we always forgive each other, but that in no way gets rid of your karma.
Also, you should stop reading Christian propaganda about Buddhism. Buddhism is not selfish; it is focused on fixing ourselves and not trying to fix others.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What does love have to to do with forgiveness? Please know that I am talking about the kind of forgiveness that a Christian would talk about. Of course we always forgive each other, but that in no way gets rid of your karma.
Let me be the first to inform you that Christianity does not represent that type of forgiveness. Its forgiveness completely absolves the sinner of the guilt or condemnation they receive after commiting a sin.
Sure, they will be discplined for the sin, but only to keep them on the right track so they don't commit the same sinful act again. Holding condemnation over someone after they've earnestly attempted to change their bad behavior is not very loving, and it's a bit disheartening that you believe true love can exist without forgiveness.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Also, you should stop reading Christian propaganda about Buddhism. Buddhism is not selfish; it is focused on fixing ourselves and not trying to fix others.
I haven't read any Christian propaganda about Buddhism, and the final thoughts, decisions, and choices I've made about the religion are entirely my own. It is a very self oriented religion, and your argument above only further demonstrates this. The only thing I've heard you talk about during this discussion is your karma, and I have yet to see you mention or show any concern over the "karma" of others, nor have you even acknowledged that you'd receive bad karma so another wouldn't suffer.
So anyway, my opinion is my own and its based on the knowledge I've acquired thus far about Buddhism, as well as my observations of those who practice the religion.
Originally posted by Thundar
Let me be the first to inform you that Christianity does not represent that type of forgiveness. Its forgiveness completely absolves the sinner of the guilt or condemnation they receive after commiting a sin.
I understand. That kind of forgiveness leads to someone feeling that they can sin and not worry about consequences because they will be forgiven. I bet the priests that molested all those children asked for forgiveness after every molestation.
Originally posted by Thundar
Sure, they will be discplined for the sin, but only to keep them on the right track so they don't commit the same sinful act again. Holding condemnation over someone after they've earnestly attempted to change their bad behavior is not very loving, and it's a bit disheartening that you believe true love can exist without forgiveness. [/B]
I’ve known a lot of Christians who act one way at church and then another way at home.
Originally posted by Thundar
I haven't read any Christian propaganda about Buddhism, and the final thoughts, decisions, and choices I've made about the religion are entirely my own. It is a very self oriented religion, and your argument above only further demonstrates this. The only thing I've heard you talk about during this discussion is your karma, and I have yet to see you mention or show any concern over the "karma" of others, nor have you even acknowledged that you'd receive bad karma so another wouldn't suffer. [/B]
Who am I to go around pointing at other people’s karma? I have no idea what someone’s karma is like; I cannot see into their hearts. Are you more concerned about condemning others rather then keeping yourself on the right path? Sure, I call out evil when I see it, but I do not denounce people. I talk about actions they take and try not to get personal. I am in no place to make judgments about the person, only the action they take.
Please read this: it sets on my altar and I read it all the time.
The following three traits summarize the character and mentality of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth:
1. To be rigorously strict toward oneself, like a sharp autumn frost.
2. To be warm and embracing toward others, like a soft spring breeze.
3. To be uncompromising when confronting evil, like a lion monarch.
If that is what you call “a very self oriented religion”, then so be it.
Originally posted by Thundar
So anyway, my opinion is my own and its based on the knowledge I've acquired thus far about Buddhism, as well as my observations of those who practice the religion. [/B]
You know nothing about Buddhism. You have never read a book about the subject or talked in length with any Buddhist teacher. I am in no way a Buddhist teacher; I just make it through life the best I can. I used to be a person filled with hate, so, to not have that feeling is good enough for me. BTW you sound just like the Christian propaganda that I have read in the past. Maybe you don’t realize the influence such teachings have had on you, or you are so indoctrinated that you come to the same poison that fills the hearts of the hate mongers who put out such propaganda. Ether way the end is the same; you make judgments about people you do not know and have never met. Please try to understand that you cannot grasp where a person is truly coming from, through words on an Internet forum.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I understand. That kind of forgiveness leads to someone feeling that they can sin and not worry about consequences because they will be forgiven. I bet the priests that molested all those children asked for forgiveness after every molestation.
Nothing could be further from the truth. With forgiveness comes repentance. Those who ask for forgiveness must have a repentant heart or spirit in order to receive it. If one truly has a repentant spirit; they will demonstrate a true willingness to turn away from sins through their actions.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I’ve known a lot of Christians who act one way at church and then another way at home.Who am I to go around pointing at other people’s karma? I have no idea what someone’s karma is like; I cannot see into their hearts. Are you more concerned about condemning others rather then keeping yourself on the right path? Sure, I call out evil when I see it, but I do not denounce people. I talk about actions they take and try not to get personal. I am in no place to make judgments about the person, only the action they take.
Not showing any concern over the actions of others isn't loving. If one truly cares about and loves someone, then they will inform them of behavior that can be harmful to them(and others). This is not condemning them, but it is instilling them with loving discipline. It is the same thing that I would want someone to do to myself, when they see me going down the wrong path.
I don't seek a reward when doing this, or truly care if I receive good or bad karma from informing others of the truth. I do hope however, that they'll in someway be able to share this type of unconditional love with others.
I feel that true love can only be attained, when one has no expectation of receiving reward for anything that they've done. This does not mean that being loving at some point doesn't produce some type of reward, but it does demonstrate that true love really exists in an individual, if they are not attempting to seek one. Christ's sacrifice on the cross, was demonstrative of this type of love.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If that is what you call “a very self oriented religion”, then so be it.
I believe that encouraging individuals to act and live righteously is a good thing. However, when a religion solely encourages one to do the right thing strictly for the purpose of "oneself" receiving "good karma", then I would call this belief system a "self-oriented" one.
I also believe that when a religion encourages one to seek truth through the eyes of each individual, it motivates one to operate under "self oriented" agenda.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You know nothing about Buddhism. You have never read a book about the subject or talked in length with any Buddhist teacher. I am in no way a Buddhist teacher; I just make it through life the best I can. I used to be a person filled with hate, so, to not have that feeling is good enough for me. BTW you sound just like the Christian propaganda that I have read in the past. Maybe you don’t realize the influence such teachings have had on you, or you are so indoctrinated that you come to the same poison that fills the hearts of the hate mongers who put out such propaganda. Ether way the end is the same; you make judgments about people you do not know and have never met.
I don't believe that one is truly demonstrating love, when they only do good with the expectation of only receiving good back. If you believe me to be "hate monger" or "condemning" for believing such a thing, then so be it.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please try to understand that you cannot grasp where a person is truly coming from, through words on an Internet forum.
You are correct. Everything I know about you, is based on what you've presented within this internet forum.
Originally posted by ThundarWell Karma would put the blame on YOU where it belongs..YOU are responsible for your actions and YOU make your life a hell or not...simple.
Don't you think that seems a bit extreme though. If there's no forgiveness, then where's the love? A religion which motivates people to care more about themselves and their "karma" is not very loving..IMO.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well Karma would put the blame on YOU where it belongs..YOU are responsible for your actions and YOU make your life a hell or not...simple.
Which I whole heartedly agree with. People should be held accountable and responsable for any sinful actions. But I also think that people are deserving of mercy, despite being guilty of these actions. I believe this mercy should be used on those who are repentant and truly trying to change.
Originally posted by Thundar
Buddhism is a very self oriented religion, and your argument above only further demonstrates this.
Again you have NO IDEA what you are talking about do you ?
Buddha taught that there is NO SELF that EGO is the illusion that keeps us TRAPPED in Samsara, through the cycle of birth and re birth, and in continous suffering
Nirvana which is the goal of Buddhism can only be acheived by alleviation of selfish desire and attachment to Ego....
Please stop ranting things of which you know nothing about, thanks 🙂
Originally posted by Thundar
Nothing could be further from the truth. With forgiveness comes repentance. Those who ask for forgiveness must have a repentant heart or spirit in order to receive it. If one truly has a repentant spirit; they will demonstrate a true willingness to turn away from sins through their actions.
So, do you see how humans will always find some escape goat? Most of the people I knew when I was a Christian did not have a repentant spirit.
Originally posted by Thundar
Not showing any concern over the actions of others isn't loving. If one truly cares about and loves someone, then they will inform them of behavior that can be harmful to them(and others). This is not condemning them, but it is instilling them with loving discipline. It is the same thing that I would want someone to do to myself, when they see me going down the wrong path. [/B]
So, getting the beam out of your own eye before you remove the splitter from your bother’s eye is not loving?
You are assuming that you know everything about others. If you were wrong, and corrected someone in such a way that would lead them into more trouble. You do make mistakes, right?
Originally posted by Thundar
I don't seek a reward when doing this, or truly care if I receive good or bad karma from informing others of the truth. I do hope however, that they'll in someway be able to share this type of unconditional love with others. [/B]
“The truth”? Your truth is not someone else’s truth. You can cause more harm by imposing your truth onto others, then you can by learning their truth.
Originally posted by Thundar
I feel that true love can only be attained, when one has no expectation of receiving reward for anything that they've done. This does not mean that being loving at some point doesn't produce some type of reward, but it does demonstrate that true love really exists in an individual, if they are not attempting to seek one. Christ's sacrifice on the cross, was demonstrative of this type of love. [/B]
Love is not something that can be attained. Most of the times, if you reach for love, it will move away from you. The death of a man is not love.
Originally posted by Thundar
I believe that encouraging individuals to act and live righteously is a good thing. However, when a religion solely encourages one to do the right thing strictly for the purpose of "oneself" receiving "good karma", then I would call this belief system a "self-oriented" one. [/B]
Please learn something about Buddhism, before you make yourself look like a complete fool. We do not do “right things” for purposes of “oneself” receiving “good karma”. We do what is right to bring others into happiness.
He gives rise to this pure thought: I will never abandon any living thing. I will love all living things as one. I will lead all living things to nirvana!
18,000 Verse Perfection of Wisdom Sutra 11
Originally posted by Thundar
I also believe that when a religion encourages one to seek truth through the eyes of each individual, it motivates one to operate under "self oriented" agenda. [/B]
What you are saying makes not sense. All there is in a religion is the individuals. If you take away all of the people from a church, does not the church die?
Originally posted by Thundar
I don't believe that one is truly demonstrating love, when they only do good with the expectation of only receiving good back. If you believe me to be "hate monger" or "condemning" for believing such a thing, then so be it. [/B]
You assumption is incorrect.
Originally posted by Thundar
You are correct. Everything I know about you, is based on what you've presented within this internet forum. [/B]
Then how can you say you know me, and how, if you do not know me, can you give me guidance?
Originally posted by lil bitchinessWell some feel that god is doing them a favor because they would be miserable otherwise. There are also others that believe that hell is not for eternity, but annihilation, and with that view, god is really great cause now they are put out of their misery of knowing that they will never be with god as compared to being in hell and suffering about it.
Ok, thats fair enough.If God is love does he demonstrate his love by throwing people into hellfire for not following a certain pattern of worship?
God hates religion.