Originally posted by allfg
So he said that he, not his character, but he, Nick Gillard would own Anakin. Not Hayden, but Anakin? Well what's so wrong with that? Nick Gillard is a pretty awesome swordsman.
Lol, you think someone who can see all his attacks in the future, read his thoughts, increase his speed and strenght above human levels, and has trained to fight to kill or disarm in professional jedi way's and been in wars and battle for the 3 last years will lose to some petty human who has been training sword arts at a circus? Yeah, Nick stands a chance..... 🙄
The movies are the highest canon, but you're taking that statement to literal. In there, it is Hayden, not Anakin, who fights. You cannot judge them by their actors performance, we have loads of other sources showing their power. Just taking those things above and you have Anakin for the win.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Boz_PityHere it says Dooku outmaneuvered Mace after a short duel, and left to save Grievous body, because Mace drooped a STAP on him.
1. Wookipedia is not a source. Meaning what it says = nothing, unless supported by canon sources.
2. "Outmaneuvered" could also translate to the fact that he got his henchmen to blindside Mace, which is what happened. Nothing in the duel suggested that Dooku was dominating it. He wanted to fight Mace, and yet after a brief match, decided to leave. That doesn't make him weaker, but that sure as hell is a sign that he's not stronger.
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well, Anakin was limited in what he could do compared to Dooku, and look what happened. Sith abilities don't make or break a fight. In fact, that would only help mace being that he is the super conductive loop of darkside powers. Thanks for the help! 😎
You missed my point. Having knowledge of both sides is better than having knowledge of only one. This makes Dooku the better force user - especially when coupled with his two respective masters and the time he has been studying the force for.
You're missing my point completely. It is absolutely retarded to have ONE person know the key to defend against your arch enemies attacks. What I was saying about Mace being second in command is, that as the #2 guy, I'm sure Yoda would share and teach strategy and training with him, much like when Generals share info and tactics with other high ranking officers. I'm not disputing Yoda's credentials, as i am well aware of his resume, what I am saying is that because Yoda is the top guy and has all this experience, does not mean that Mace cant know it. There's more reason to suspect that Mace would know it rather than not know it.
Hmm well neither of us have any solid proof to support eiyther of our claims on this matter. I see where your coming from but I still disagree. Im willingly to let this point drop if you are.
I'm sure Yoda's not a greedy little leprechaun that doesn't want to share and wants to hoard all his knowledge.
Hahaha, didnt you see ESB where he starts hitting R2 with his cane for the food. 😆
experience. Thats what sets him apart along with just having more life. Centuries is a lot more than decades, and being that we don't know how long it takes to master a technique, it's kind of moot. As far as being wise, or intelligent, they never showed us their SAT scores, so we can only speculate on their independent intellect. Being wise however is different, and is what i would call Yoda. Yoda has wisdom, Sidious, for example, has intelligence. Know what i mean? You don't know that if when Dooku reached 50 whether or not he kept learning new things (save for darkside), so you don't know Mace is compared to where Dooku left off.
Im speaking in general here. Dooku has had 80 years to learn the ways of the force whereas Mace has had much less. Logically speaking Dooku is going to be better. Of course there are other factors to be taken into considersation as well. But then add in the fact that Dooku has learnt both sides of the force and that his masters were to the most powerful in the Unvierse than I think it is safe to say that Dooku has the edge here.
Maybe, however I'm not saying that being on the council makes you a god, I'm saying to have the exemplary skills to be appointed to it at such a young age, is a feat in itself. If someone wasn't offered a position, its for a reason.
I agree with this.
Oh definitely its good to have, but as you said it most likely wont be the deciding factor in a fight. Also, we don't know how many fights they've each had. If mace had a significant amount of fights more than Dooku, than that could help sway that door of experience. True?
Yes. But I doubt that he has. Dooku has had 30+ years more battles than Mace. Plus he had his own small army of Acolytes to train and he was the temples BM. I think it is reasonably safe to assume that Dooku has more comat experience anyway. Therefore point moot.
Yes, i believed that Yoda would have eventually lost in that setting. If he felt he would win, he would have stayed. Remember what he said to Sidious as he tried to leave? Something like , "if so powerful you are, then why leave?" Meaning if he knew he would win, why run. Same with Yoda. He knew he would have lost and left to hide on Dagobah. Not talking anything away from Yoda, of course.
Possibly, but thats anther debate in itself.
Just for reference, here's the fight from the comic:
Dooku (to magnaguards): "Locate Grievous and Ventress, if they still live. Kill any Clones you encounter, but leave the Jedi to me."
He seems intent on killing a few Jedi, getting in some practice. Next frame:
Mace confronts Dooku and they fight. They appear to be fairly even. However, something about the way Dooku says "You won't kill me. Not today." makes it seem as if he believes that Mace does indeed have the power in him to kill Dooku, just "not today" because Dooku is about to flee.
Dooku realizes that he's gonna lose so he gets his goons to distract Mace while he can make his escape.
Yes. Dooku is a sith and in his eyes he had everything to lose in that fight. Mace is a Jedi with no thought of self preservation and knew that killing Dooku would cripple the CIS and turn the tide of the war dramatically. Because of how close they are in terms of power and that there was a very good possibility that Mace could win, Dooku didnt want to take the risk.
Sidious takes this. Obi-wan defeated Anakin. Yoda said that Obi-wan was not strong enough to defeat Sidious, so Anakin isn't either.
OR
Sidious still takes this. Anakin lost to Obi-wan. Obi-wan got raped by Dooku. Dooku only lost to Anakin the fight was staged. Otherwise Dooku would have raped Anakin also. Sidious is about equal to Dooku so Anakin is weaker and loses.
Bottom line: Anakin loses no matter how you look at it.
Originally posted by kamikz
Actually, that's only one side of the story. The other could be, that Dooku realised he might as well lose as win, and did not want to take the risk.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Yes. Dooku is a sith and in his eyes he had everything to lose in that fight. Mace is a Jedi with no thought of self preservation and knew that killing Dooku would cripple the CIS and turn the tide of the war dramatically. Because of how close they are in terms of power and that there was a very good possibility that Mace could win, Dooku didnt want to take the risk.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, just like he ran ran Yoda in AOTC not because he was losing, huh, but because he didn't want to take the risk? 🙄 Oh yeah, and the databank says Mace and Yoda are equal and Yoda was at least even with Dooku when they fought in Dark Rendezvous and that was when Dooku had the terrain advantage. Face it, Mace beats Dooku.
Yoda was different altogether. Dooku was already a fair notch below him on skill, had just fought Anakin and Obi-Wan and needed toe scape before Republic forces arrived.
Mace being equal to Yoda could mean a number of things. You and me both know that Yoda would beat Mace in a fight so that quote goes out the window.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sidious takes this. Obi-wan defeated Anakin. Yoda said that Obi-wan was not strong enough to defeat Sidious, so Anakin isn't either.
OR
Sidious still takes this. Anakin lost to Obi-wan. Obi-wan got raped by Dooku. Dooku only lost to Anakin the fight was staged. Otherwise Dooku would have raped Anakin also. Sidious is about equal to Dooku so Anakin is weaker and loses.Bottom line: Anakin loses no matter how you look at it.
that's the dumbest shit I've heard since i heard planet talk earlier. A>B>C agreements don't mean shit. Anakin is far superior to OB1, and Dooku. It was proved many times that the fight was not staged as there is no direct evidence to support such a stupid ass theory. Anakin pwned Dooku like a b!tch, and made a stupid decision while fighting OB1. Anakin can beat Sidious, especially when he's "in the zone."
Originally posted by darthsith19
Yeah, just like he ran ran Yoda in AOTC not because he was losing, huh, but because he didn't want to take the risk? 🙄 Oh yeah, and the databank says Mace and Yoda are equal and Yoda was at least even with Dooku when they fought in Dark Rendezvous and that was when Dooku had the terrain advantage. Face it, Mace beats Dooku.
Lol! Because he runs off from a superior combatent in one case, it is totally impossible for him to run if he is not lesser powerful? 🙄
They are equal ON THE COUNCIL, not in terms of power. Yoda has been stated in G-canon material to be the strongest jedi up until Luke, Mace has admitted Yoda his better in sword and the force.
Originally posted by Darth SubjektSubjeckt and dont forget sidious despite being a powerful sith lord would use psychology against anakin to get him out of his "clear minded" stage, Remember the duel with obi1? anakin did not make a bad decision, he simply was not "in the zone" and had he been in there, obi1 would have been wtf pwned.
that's the dumbest shit I've heard since i heard planet talk earlier. A>B>C agreements don't mean shit. Anakin is far superior to OB1, and Dooku. It was proved many times that the fight was not staged as there is no direct evidence to support such a stupid ass theory. Anakin pwned Dooku like a b!tch, and made a stupid decision while fighting OB1. Anakin can beat Sidious, especially when he's "in the zone."
Originally posted by Rampant ox
You missed my point. Having knowledge of both sides is better than having knowledge of only one. This makes Dooku the better force user - especially when coupled with his two respective masters and the time he has been studying the force for.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hmm well neither of us have any solid proof to support eiyther of our claims on this matter. I see where your coming from but I still disagree. Im willingly to let this point drop if you are.
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hahaha, didn't you see ESB where he starts hitting R2 with his cane for the food. 😆
Originally posted by Rampant ox
Im speaking in general here. Dooku has had 80 years to learn the ways of the force whereas Mace has had much less. Logically speaking Dooku is going to be better. Of course there are other factors to be taken into considersation as well. But then add in the fact that Dooku has learnt both sides of the force and that his masters were to the most powerful in the Unvierse than I think it is safe to say that Dooku has the edge here.
Originally posted by Rampant oxThats right, fool! j/k
I agree with this.
Originally posted by Rampant oxOK, you can doubt all you want, but we don't know for sure. You have to think though, when Dooku was coming up there was no Sith to fight, it was better times and not as hectic. So mace would have more experience with like type of fighters, dark Jedi, Sith, etc...therefore, point un-moot. 😛
Yes. But I doubt that he has. Dooku has had 30+ years more battles than Mace. Plus he had his own small army of Acolytes to train and he was the temples BM. I think it is reasonably safe to assume that Dooku has more comat experience anyway. Therefore point moot.
Originally posted by Rampant oxYea in that setting Yoda would have lost, and really, this is another debate in itself. We're supposed to be talking about how bad Anakin would ass rape Sidious.
Possibly, but thats anther debate in itself.
@Kadesh, how much psychology did Sidious use when fighting Mace? None, With Yoda? None. So you cant say he'd do it with Anakin and throw him off balance. And yes Anakin did make a dumb move...he tried jumping over someone that was higher than him rather than to the side...and OB1 didn't get him that way, he did himself and the Padme situation. Sidious cant throw him off that badly.
Originally posted by kamikz
Lol! Because he runs off from a superior combatent in one case, it is totally impossible for him to run if he is not lesser powerful? 🙄They are equal ON THE COUNCIL, not in terms of power. Yoda has been stated in G-canon material to be the strongest jedi up until Luke, Mace has admitted Yoda his better in sword and the force.
Really? where did he admit that? I remember Anakin saying, "As wise as master Yoda, and as powerful as master windu." giving the power to mace and wisdom to Yoda.