Anakin Skywalker vs Lord Sidious

Originally posted by Gideon
[B]Rampant, you and Glentract can cry "but Dooku didn't wanna risk his life!" from here to eternity; it doesn't change the fact that Count Dooku has willingly and knowingly put himself in dangerous situations with opponents who exceed him in both power and experience. It's not that he ran out of fear that he "might" lose. It seems to be that he ran out of fear that he would lose.

So are you saying if that Dooku had a 50% chance of losing he would still stay and fight? Thats bullsh*t and you know it. Its more than logical to assume that at first Dooku truly beleived he could beat Mace due to his extreme arrogance. During the fight there was a very large chance that Mace could beat him. So he decided not to take the risk and leave. Not because he couldnt win, but because Mace also had a chance of winning and he didnt want to put his life in danger.

What you're saying is that because Dooku left it automatically meant he was going to lose. Thats poor logic.

Count Dooku was the top figure of the CIS, but the true power was with Sidious. The council, Grievous, and Dooku himself were all terrified of Sidious and took their orders from Sidious. Thus, Sidious is the only necessary ingredient to the CIS. Given that Sidious's political machinations and abilities are beyond the scope of Dooku's own, I doubt it would be a crippling blow, given that Sidious was the one who secretly arranged most of the victories and constitutents of the Confederacy anyways.

Yes, I dont deny that Sidious was higher up and more importnant than Dooku. My point is that Mace killing Dooku would still be a blow to the CIS. Besides, Mace wasnt aware that Sidious was behind the CIS at that point - he beleived that Dooku was the one pulling the strings.

He knowingly threw himself at Yoda (whom he knows to be stronger than Mace) twice, and he's beaten Mace before. The only logical conclusion is that he fled out of fear that he knew he wouldn't win, not that he "might".

No. Your assuming that even if Dooku might lose he is still going to stay and fight. But if he was to flee it automatically means that he couldnt win.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, Kamikz, he had the option of fleeing when facing an opponent stronger than Mace (Yoda), even after Yoda repelled and repulsed all of his Force attacks. Yet he chose to stay to fight, and the CIS was getting their ass stomped all over Geonosis at the same time.

And again Gideon, because he fled from a battle because he was lesser powerful once, it is impossible for him to flee unless he is less powerful in another fight?
As I said, at that point, Dooku believed himself to be superior to all other jedi. As Yoda and Dooku "stalemated" in force abilities, Dooku asked for a swordfight, he clearly thought he could beat his master in that category at least, but he couldn't, thus he fled.
I mean, if I was in that position, risking that I could be killed, or I could kill him, and had a couple of droids waiting for my command, I would command them to stall him, against Yoda he was alone, in a much harder position to turn his tail...

And I don't know why we are discussing this, thinking that you might be lesser than someody else doesn't mean you are, it is quite possible to overcome them with mind games or different tactics used.

I never said Dooku was more powerful. I more or less see him and Mace as equals with an even chance of one beating the other. Yes, Mace could kill Dooku, but just the same Dooku could kill Mace. Dooku had more desire to live though, so he fled before Mace, especially since he had the means to flee in this situation.

The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi(except for Yoda), perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground.

This is from Dark Rendezvous, where mace already has Vaapad and Shatterpoint .

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?books=360

Chapter 11

1 question, does that half ass bullshit statement from Lucas going to put anakin on par with sidious? the one from h\the rolling stone interview

No, hell no, Lucas never ment it that way, it is pretty obvious seeing that he has said and knows himself that Anakin is not on par with Sidious, why the **** would he suddenly say he was? Why does everyone take that bull quote so literally....

Look in the Movie Kamikz what is Sidious saying to Yoda "you will not stop me Lord Vader will become more powerful then either of us" clearly Lucas meant the not cyborg Anakin to be greater then Sidious, before his injury.

Did you miss the quote? People believe Anakin AT THAT STATE to be equal to Sidious. Sidious talks about Anakin's POTENTIAL to become the greatest ever, no one denies that, but people are looking at the quote in an interview of Lucas and are believing that Anakin already is equal to him, he isn't.....

And I don't understand where you wanna get with that post......?

Sidious meant that in couple of years, if he hadn't sustained those injuries om Mustafar, Anakin would became more powerful.
If he meant in the present he would say "Lord Vader has become more powerful then either of us".l
Anakin is better with a lightsaber, but Sidious is a lot better with Force powers and thus overall.

Originally posted by kamikz
Did you miss the quote? People believe Anakin AT THAT STATE to be equal to Sidious. Sidious talks about Anakin's POTENTIAL to become the greatest ever, no one denies that, but people are looking at the quote in an interview of Lucas and are believing that Anakin already is equal to him, he isn't.....

And I don't understand where you wanna get with that post......?

I just wanted to clear out a misunderstanding from my part. I have read the above post as you saying that Anakin would never be capable of defeating Sidious, and pointing out that Lucas clearly meant for Vader to be (become) stronger then Sidious, That was my point to clear out a misunderstanding.

No, YOU missunderstood what I said, completly. I said Anakin never surpassed Sidious, and he never did. I know that IF Anakin would have gotten his full potential he would have, but he didn't, so he never became as good as Sidious, and that was what I said!

Originally posted by kamikz
No, YOU missunderstood what I said, completly. I said Anakin never surpassed Sidious, and he never did. I know that IF Anakin would have gotten his full potential he would have, but he didn't, so he never became as good as Sidious, and that was what I said!

Then I didn't misunderstood you post, but what I am saying is that I misread the the others, but we understand each other now so never mind.

Ok, cool!