Originally posted by allfg
By RotS, he's clearly not the most powerful, and I'd argue against even his DE incarnation as well. It's in no way a fact. And what you need to get is that Mace Windu used a lightsaber defence for the lightning, not a force defence. That kind of defence can only be used against tangible attacks, so it's pretty much irrelavent in regards to N's drain.
Because you're an idiot who's been proven wrong countless times.
Shut the hell up and stay out of these debates with your debunked and stupid opinion.
Originally posted by Count Makashi
But wasn't it said that Yoda had a defence for every darks side power, and it sas id wokipedia that Mace coud defend against Sidious force lightning with Wapad, turning his anger against him, why cant he do tha same against Nihilus, im my opinion weaker sith.
Well yeah, Yoda has, but he is an over 800 year old jedi master, Mace is an over 50 year old master, clearly a big difference. I don't see Mace defending against a technique who drains the force and life out of people, who could do so on a whole planet of force users. Besides, it was pretty hard to even learn a defence for it, seeing as it was believed it wasn't even possible. (Though it probably was)
And, well pretty much read what Utrigita said, which clearly describes why he cannot deflect it with his saber!
Nihilus and Sion are both characters from a game and creators of the game have more freedom with characters powers. I am sure if GL made movies 7,8, and 9 and if it talked abaut Ancient sith, they wodn't be so powerful as in EU.
Butt in this fight Nihilus could kill Mace with his drain, butt without it, his nothing special.
Yeah, he can. I'm sure Lucas would make them have such powers if he wanted to contend with EU, but here's the deal, he doesn't. We still put most characters from the PT above the EU, and they aren't just worse because they are EU and Lucas didn't overdo the PT ones.
Nihilus wins with his drain, I see him stand a chance without it....
And you said "butt". lol
You are taking a race that are none forcesensitive a race I doesn't know and possibly the strongest Jedi to have lived In many years and yes they can protect against it, but there is a far way from Luke Skywalker and the rest to Mace Windu.
I probably for the only one believes that Nihilus would be capable of defeating Mace Windu because we never see what he is really capable of in the fight with the Exile.
Can you tell ore perhaps show me the full potential of Nihilus can you tell me anything about his sabercombat still, the only thing we know for sure is that he is a wound in the force, Have huge forcepotential, defeating kreia along with Sion, drains jedies, destroys worlds, losing to the exile after trying to drain him (dissaster) and becomes very weakend. anything I forgot?
He's on par with Yoda,
Did you happen to watch Revenge of the Sith? Mace is in no way on par with Yoda. He was slow, unskilled, and technically he sucked. Yoda was quick, agile, and his skill >>>>> Mace.
the most powerful Jedi up until that point.
Hasn't been proven...
He beat Sidious,
Sidious quite clearly threw the fight, and Mace showed nothing too noteworthy with his win.
the most powerful Sith.
The incarnation you're referring to hasn't been proven the most powerful.
He uses Vaapad.
Overrated. It doesn't solely grant him victory, especially when he's as unskilled as he is in the movie.
He has Shatterpoint.
What's so great about seeing weaknesses in your opponent if you don't have th skill or power to capitalise on them?
He has beaten people like Asajj and Sora Bulq.
Wow, I take back everything I've said, Mace is a GOD.
Yada yada, Mace would win in a lightsaber fight.
You can make as good a case for Mace that can be made, but what you actually need to do (which you haven't) is prove that Nihilus' skills are below Mace's. Now the way I see it, force ability strongly correlates with lightsaber skill. Mace shows very basic skill in the movies. Nihilus has been prove to be a force titan. I say Nihilus takes it in a force, or saber battle.
It's been proven, Nebaris. Lucas himself approved the text word by word in which it is stated and Mastt Stover stated it's close to SW fact as you can get.
Oh, and the same canon texts call Palpatine the most powerful. Don't make iot ambiguous because you want it to be. Mace, by the EU, is exceptionally skilled and as canon, you can't deny that. Apparnetly Lucas feels the same because he kept it in Stover's books. Mace takes Nihilus 'can't fight to save my life literally' easily. Stop diminishing the PT because they're better than your favorites
It's been proven, Nebaris. Lucas himself approved the text word by word in which it is stated and Mastt Stover stated it's close to SW fact as you can get.
Word by word? Bullshit, if that was the case, there wouldn't be any contradictions. Sure, he worked closely with the authors, but let's not be exaggerating things here. By your logic, we can accept the aspects of the novel that contradict the movies simply because Lucas line edited it. You're wrong. The fact is, the narrative that you believe labels Yoda the most powerful jedi up until his time is dependant on an invalid fightscene. Thus, it too is rendered invalid. Not to mention that what's said is ambiguous, I think it's safe to say that was effectively proven at USW.
Oh, and the same canon texts call Palpatine the most powerful.
No they don't.
Don't make iot ambiguous because you want it to be.
They are ambiguous, deal with it.
Mace, by the EU, is exceptionally skilled and as canon, you can't deny that.
Movie > EU, skill levels contradict, thus Mace's skill in the EU is invalid. In the movie, he is nothing, so unlucky about that!
Apparnetly Lucas feels the same because he kept it in Stover's books.
Right, so because Lucas left the fact that Kit got beheaded inside the novelisation, it goes, even though it contradicts a higher form of canon...
Sure thing. You seem to think that just because Lucas worked closely with the author, the whole contradiction policy doesn't apply. It does, deal with it.
Mace takes Nihilus 'can't fight to save my life literally' easily.
Proof that he can't fight to save his life? Oh wait...
Stop diminishing the PT because they're better than your favorites
I'm sure if you think back to when I first joined KMC, you'll remember that Mace Windu is one of my favorite characters. Doesn't change the fact that Nihilus outclasses him, bad.
The fight scene contradicts nothing, Nebaris. In fact, it matches up to the movie almost exactly and the scene does follow the movie exactly: Yoda dodging hurled senate pods. And yes, word by Word:
http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780345428837&view=auqa
Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?
MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.
The quote saren;t ambiguous. They state directly most powerful and have been reviewed and published as canon. Nothing of the sort has been done from your platform. You have nothing. And apparently, despise what the movie shows, the EU is STILL VALID....can you explain that? I asked Leland about it...according to him, it's fine!
And according to Leland: Direct actions in contradictions are N-canon, but narrative, thoughts and times between scenes are certainly canon.
And prove Nihilus can't fight to save his life?
He died in a fight!
And Nihilus outclasses Mace with the force, a sunlike Palpatine, Yoda, Luke or jacen, Mace can't deal with the drain. but remove that and Mace would butcher him
OK, I just read through the fightscene, and I had always assumed it was like the Dooku/Anakin and Obi-Wan, however it's not, so whatever, I concede that particular argument, however...
There came a turning point in the clash of the light against the dark.
It did not come from a flash of lightning or slash of energy blade, though there were these in plenty; it did not come from aflying kick or a surgically precise punch, though these weretraded, too.
It came as the battle shifted from the holding office to thegreat Chancellor's Podium; it came as the hydraulic lift beneaththe Podium raised it on its tower of durasteel a hundred metersand more, so that it became a laserpoint of battle flaring at thefocus of the vast emptiness of the Senate Arena; it came as theForce and the podium's controls ripped delegation pods free ofthe curving walls and made of them hammers, battering rams,catapult stones crashing and crushing against each other in arolling thunder-roar that echoed the Senate's cheers for thegalaxy's new Emperor.
It came when the avatar of light resolved into the lineageof the Jedi; when the lineage of the Jedi refined into one singleJedi.
It came when Yoda found himself alone against the dark.
In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and bladesand bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness thathad clouded the Force.
Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatinglypowerful foe the darkness had ever known...just—didn't—haveit.
He'd never had it. He had lost before he started.
He had lost before he was born.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted,had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had becomenew.
While the Jedi—
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refightthelast war.
The new Sith could not be destroyed with a lightsaber; theycould not be burned away by any torch of the Force. Thebrighter his light, the darker their shadow. How could one win awar against the dark, when war itself had become the dark's ownweapon?
He knew, at that instant, that this insight held the hope ofthe galaxy. But if he fell here, that hope would die with him.Hmmm,Yoda thought.A problem this is...
It's 100% in Yoda's PoV. "Finally, he saw the truth", "That he" etc..
Meaning, it's not a fact, Yoda isn't infallible.
The quote saren;t ambiguous.
Yes they are.
And prove Nihilus can't fight to save his life?
He died in a fight!
...
And could you please quote what you're replying to, otherwise it can be a tad bit confusing and very annoying.