Originally posted by Regret
Thanks for the defense there Alliance 🙂I have been considering this idea for a long time. The LDS religion places a lot of import on the symbolism and symmetric nature of existence. As such, I believe it possible that Christ's birth and reactions of that time will be repeated in a similar, albeit perhaps very differently appearing, manner. I believe that, even if my religion is the correct one, many of the most solid detractors from Christ at the Second coming will come from the Christians. Given this view, the question obviously would arise over time from me, Thundar merely provided a stimulus that increased the probability of it occurring now in this forum.
No need for thanks 🙂.
I'd like to think I'd be open to idea from anyone, but I'd have a hell of a time listening to someone who claimed he was the son of a god.
I think its a very pertinent question. Christianity, like most religions, is structured as a societal control. You can't have a control if any philosopher that comes along can influence the religion. Even the protestants found that out within decades of their reformation.
Christianity was founded on an unspeakable amount of liberalism for the time. I personally find it sad that most Christians today neglect the tradition of Christ and are consumed by the dogma created around his figure.
Originally posted by Nellinator
In response to the title of thread as interpreted in the literal way:
No, crucification is way to cruel, a gun to the head would work better. In fact crucification produces excruciating pain.
Originally posted by AllianceThen we are in large part agreed.
No need for thanks 🙂.I'd like to think I'd be open to idea from anyone, but I'd have a hell of a time listening to someone who claimed he was the son of a god.
I think its a very pertinent question. Christianity, like most religions, is structured as a societal control. You can't have a control if any philosopher that comes along can influence the religion. Even the protestants found that out within decades of their reformation.
Christianity was founded on an unspeakable amount of liberalism for the time. I personally find it sad that most Christians today neglect the tradition of Christ and are consumed by the dogma created around his figure.
I am Christian, imo, and as such my religious beliefs are held by faith. According to the Bible, faith is a hope for things not seen. Thus, I hope that my beliefs are true. I do not "know" this, I hope it is. From this perspective I feel that it is imperative to maintain an open mind, accepting any truth as it presents itself regardless of conflict with my faith or its point of origin. In fact, truth should alter my faith or confirm it as truth reveals the nature of existence. I think this is an issue with much religion, they deny, or ignore, truth that conflicts with preconceptions.
Quote from Bill Hicks:
"Why do so many Christians wear crosses around their necks? Do you think if Jesus ever comes back he wants to see another cross again?! That's kind of like walking up to Jackie with a rifle bullet around your neck, saying, 'Just thinking about John, baby, just thinking about John.'"
Take Nelson Mandela for a recent example (please note, I am NOT trying to compare Mandela to Jesus!). Mandela wanted freedom and equality for all, and he was prepared to fight for it. What happened to him? He got thrown into jail for 27 years because he was a terrorist.
Now he is eventually free, everybody agrees he is a great man and he was actually right all along - but that does not change the fact that his teachings were rejected, brought him into conflict with the establishment - and he had to pay the price for it.
If Jesus ever comes back, he will come back as a freedom fighter, the same way He came in the first place. He will reject previous teachings, even the ones based on his own, because due to human error, pride and conceit, we have changed His message over the years to suit our desires.
If Jesus comes back, he is going to come into conflict with the establishment (again), be dubbed a terrorist (again) and America will launch a world-wide war until he is eventually found and executed - FOR OUR OWN GOOD.
Jesus Christ: Freedom fighter or terrorist? It all depends on your point of view...
Ultra Conservatives certainly would if they thought it was there only way to Redemption...
A truly loving Christian would never do such a thing, they would not be so greedy and selfish as to torture and kill thier beloved, just to save themselves. A true loving Christian, heck, a true loving PERSON of any Faith, would sacrafice themselves instead of making Jesus endure that pain again.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why should Jesus pay the penalties for my own faults ? Why should he suffer and be tortured just because I lie, insult, or rebel ?That's absurd.
I do not ask Christ to suffer for me, I will suffer for my OWN wrongs, thank you.
Aye, you may indeed.
And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.
We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.
The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.
🙂
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Aye, you may indeed.And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.
We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.
The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.
🙂
You know that when all you Christians are gone chances are this earth will become a paradise...
Originally posted by Bardock42Mormons believe this earth does become a paradise 😉 Well, about a thousand or so years after Christ returns... But then we don't believe those Christ takes with him leave the earth either, everyone stay here, good and bad, and life goes on, just with a bit more knowledge than we have now.
You know that when all you Christians are gone chances are this earth will become a paradise...
Originally posted by Regret
Mormons believe this earth does become a paradise 😉 Well, about a thousand or so years after Christ returns... But then we don't believe those Christ takes with him leave the earth either, everyone stay here, good and bad, and life goes on, just with a bit more knowledge than we have now.
Sounds much more intelligent. Tell me more.
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ultra Conservatives certainly would if they thought it was there only way to Redemption...A truly loving Christian would [b]never
do such a thing, they would not be so greedy and selfish as to torture and kill thier beloved, just to save themselves. A true loving Christian, heck, a true loving PERSON of any Faith, would sacrafice themselves instead of making Jesus endure that pain again. [/B]
The people who put Mandela into prison were practicing Christians, fully supported by their church and respected leaders in their community, and absolutely convinced they were doing the right thing.
The people who crucified Christ were also leaders in their community, supported by their faith and absolutely convinced they were doing the right thing.
And if Christ is ever foolish (or brave, your choice) enough to come back, he will be executed by respected leaders in their community, supported by their church and absolutely convinced they are doing the right thing.
Nothing has changed, as America has proved time, and time, and time again.
Originally posted by Bardock42A lot of the information on our beliefs on the subject is speculative, but here is what I believe given information at hand:
Sounds much more intelligent. Tell me more.
Christ comes, he is visible to the entire world in some manner (not necessarily recognized, but visible) The war that is spoken of in Revelations continues, the two prophets that arose from the dead are explained away by those that do not wish to believe it. Mormons believe that a Zion, the New Jerusalem (odd name given Jerusalem means New Salem), will be on the American continent. This New Jerusalem will be established amidst global natural disasters, wars and general unrest. Christ will reign in this city. After Christ's coming Satan is bound for one thousand years as stated in Revelations. So, for the next thousand years people will live as they will without any influence coming from Satan, thus they will completely responsible for all actions, no rationalization for having been swayed by some other entity. The resurrection occurs throughout this millennium, thus all men will live through some portion of this thousand year period. Life will go on as normal, with those not in the New Jerusalem avoiding the place due to the strict behavioral rules, thus they will call it a great and terrible place. Life goes on, at the end of the thousand years, Satan is unleashed and Armageddon occurs, following which life goes on again only now people are separated into the style of life that they have chosen, thus some will be limited in their ability to do various things, while others will have great possibility, due to the choices they have made.
Originally posted by Regret
A lot of the information on our beliefs on the subject is speculative, but here is what I believe given information at hand:Christ comes, he is visible to the entire world in some manner (not necessarily recognized, but visible) The war that is spoken of in Revelations continues, the two prophets that arose from the dead are explained away by those that do not wish to believe it. Mormons believe that a Zion, the New Jerusalem (odd name given Jerusalem means New Salem), will be on the American continent. This New Jerusalem will be established amidst global natural disasters, wars and general unrest. Christ will reign in this city. After Christ's coming Satan is bound for one thousand years as stated in Revelations. So, for the next thousand years people will live as they will without any influence coming from Satan, thus they will completely responsible for all actions, no rationalization for having been swayed by some other entity. The resurrection occurs throughout this millennium, thus all men will live through some portion of this thousand year period. Life will go on as normal, with those not in the New Jerusalem avoiding the place due to the strict behavioral rules, thus they will call it a great and terrible place. Life goes on, at the end of the thousand years, Satan is unleashed and Armageddon occurs, following which life goes on again only now people are separated into the style of life that they have chosen, thus some will be limited in their ability to do various things, while others will have great possibility, due to the choices they have made.
What choices are meant there?
Originally posted by Bardock42Whatever choices impact ones eternal existence. Given my religious beliefs, I must believe that the various religious commandments aid me in avoiding behaviors that will limit me in the future. Mormons also believe any education you gain in this life will aid you in the next, so choosing to increase your knowledge and wisdom will increase your possibilities in the next as well. It is the same as the existence we know, only our moral decisions also will impact our futures.
What choices are meant there?
Mormons believe in an eternal progression, including evolution from our current mortal state to an immortal Godly state if we do not overly lessen our physical and spiritual being. So behaviors that compromise our physical or spiritual forms will limit our ability to participate in various occupations, activities, etc.
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The 12 Apostles
Mary Magdalene
And the crowds of people who follow him everywhere are not consider convertions?Last I heard they gave their beliefs and follow Jesus teachings.
There is a difference between somebody trying to convert you, and people choosing to follow you because they want to, in my opinion.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Quote from Bill Hicks:"Why do so many Christians wear crosses around their necks? Do you think if Jesus ever comes back he wants to see another cross again?! That's kind of like walking up to Jackie with a rifle bullet around your neck, saying, 'Just thinking about John, baby, just thinking about John.'"
Take Nelson Mandela for a recent example (please note, I am NOT trying to compare Mandela to Jesus!). Mandela wanted freedom and equality for all, and he was prepared to fight for it. What happened to him? He got thrown into jail for 27 years because he was a terrorist.
Now he is eventually free, everybody agrees he is a great man and he was actually right all along - but that does not change the fact that his teachings were rejected, brought him into conflict with the establishment - and he had to pay the price for it.
If Jesus ever comes back, he will come back as a freedom fighter, the same way He came in the first place. He will reject previous teachings, even the ones based on his own, because due to human error, pride and conceit, we have changed His message over the years to suit our desires.
If Jesus comes back, he is going to come into conflict with the establishment (again), be dubbed a terrorist (again) and America will launch a world-wide war until he is eventually found and executed - FOR OUR OWN GOOD.
Jesus Christ: Freedom fighter or terrorist? It all depends on your point of view...