BOTS Bane versus ROTS Anakin and ROTS Obi Wan

Started by S_W_LeGenD9 pages

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dooku also knew he was in trouble and he could not resort to the force against anakin, i keep saying bane might not be able to back away to use the force with constant barraging from anakins djem so and with every strike anakin gives bane will have to parry it leaving him open to obi wan.

You just proved something, that bane fighting a swordsman who mastered his techniques to the highest degree couldnt contend with him. Ans bane is facing 2 jedi who mastered their own forms to its greatest, Bane already cant handle kasim using one mastered form, what makes you think he can even hold off 2?


Remember that part when Dooku managed to separate both of these Jedi in his last fight.

It is not that Bane will be wiped out in few seconds of his engagement with Anakin and Obi-Wan. He might manage to slip away and then use Force to his advantage.

Or another possibility is that in the very start of this battle, he uses Force Wave and throws both Anakin and Obi-Wan away and then resort to further offensive Force attacks.

The point is that both adversaries need to be careful and think smart if they want to win but this depends upon experience factor. If Bane makes the mistake of sticking to Saber Combat against these two Jedi warriors then he is done with or vice versa.

I agree, with Force powers, he has a chance, but if he fights with lightsabers only, like the mistake Dooku made, he goes down, Anakin alone can defeat him with just ligtsabers.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Remember that part when Dooku managed to separate both of these Jedi in his last fight.
yes, that was due to an opportunity that dooku was able to fling obi wan apart, but remember its not always easy to do so. How often do we see this happen halfway into the battle? From what i have seen this is an isolated case, just because dooku did it to obi wan does it mean bane can? Possibly yes but thats provided anakin is not in "the zone"
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It is not that Bane will be wiped out in few seconds of his engagement with Anakin and Obi-Wan. He might manage to slip away and then use Force to his advantage.

Or another possibility is that in the very start of this battle, he uses Force Wave and throws both Anakin and Obi-Wan away and then resort to further offensive Force attacks.

I dont see him slipping away since he is getting constant barraging by a djem so practitioner, again it leaves him open to obi wan, i say it again, if he cant handle one swords master properly(kasim) what makes u think he can hold 2 swordmasters off?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The point is that both adversaries need to be careful and think smart if they want to win but this depends upon experience factor. If Bane makes the mistake of sticking to Saber Combat against these two Jedi warriors then he is done with or vice versa.
And most fights start with a duel, If bane were to attack them with force wave as you said, anakin and obi wan would knew that with precognition in hand and thus would know how to counter that, Yes you are right it depends on what bane decides to do

And your forgot to note that Kas'im was superior to Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge and Dooku in terms of Saber Skills. Although Bane did not over-powered him in Saber Combat but he survived and used Force to crush him. This shows that he could win in very tough situations as well.

And that means what exactly? The only reason he survived as long as he did was because he memorised all of Kas'im's moves, when Kas'im did something new he shit his pants, the only reason he was even able to win was because Kas'im took the time out of the duel to give a little speech, and not only that Kas'im BLOCKED(!) his "1337" force wave. So really whats your point? Neither his saber skills or his force powers beat Kas'im, it was his tactical thinking that did that, something Anakin (being damn near a military genius) has in abundance.

Also Bane got additional training from Darth Revan's holocron, which was a treasure of Sith Techniques. His knowledge base was enhanced and he used that new knowledge to turn situations in to his favour.

So...Revans holocron didn't save him from getting his ass beat by Kas'im, Revans holocron didn't save him from having his force wave blocked. Whats your point? Revans holocron gives him an invisible advantage in battle? No, especially when doesn't even use ANY of the powers Revan "taught" him in an actual fight.

And Bane also has fought in some battles.

I'll list ALL of Banes fights

Random Sith Student #67
Sirak (twice)
Sirak and his buddies and would have lost had it not been for Githany
Kas'im
Qordris (it wasn't an actual fight)
The Orbalisk
Some Random bird.

Oh yes thats such an impressive resume

If he is not superior to Anakin in terms of experience then he is not inferior either.

He's neither equal or superior he's inferior. Plain and simple, He hasn't experienced HALF the things Anakin has. He has seen ONE master who has mastered the 7 styles on a Double Bladed Saber, thats nothing compared to Anakin who has seen mostly all forms of saber combat, is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever, he is proficient with Ataru and Shien, and as ROVD states he knows techniques, styles and forms from all forms of combat. Bane seeing one master does NOT compare.

And how much of an elite training did Obi-Wan enjoyed in these 10 years? Bane learned many impressive techniques in a relative short time. So time is irrelevant.

No its not, Anakin went from being a joke compared to Dooku to having Dooku kneeling at his feet with his hands cut off in 3 years, to dismiss the advantage of time to train and prepare is completely ridicules, Anakin and Obi Wan went from being an ineffective fighting pair divided by Anakins arrogance to one of the most powerful duos ever in Star Wars who knew each other inside and out.

Bane learned techniques...big whoop, in his one chance to shine and show off all his new leet Sith powers he learned from Revan what does he do? Does a straight duel and a force wave. Oh yes SOOOO impressive, tell me please what powers has Revan taught Bane that will be effective in this combat situation? None you can name with out pulling shit out your ass.

Kas'im was again superior to Maul, Jinn and Grevious in Saber Skills.

So...

You think that Bane cannot pull out a Force move in case of a fight? This is flawed assumption.

Yeah, considering that he would have spammed them against Kas'im if he could pull this off, and not only that it was such a direct clumsy display of power that it was easily blocked with in a second of seeing the attack. Then we have the fact that he took a good 5 or so seconds to gather the energy to even do the attack, again he's not spamming these. If Bane takes even half a second to attempt this he'll be dead, The duo almost killed Dooku within a second because he lost focus.

A Force Wave can send individuals flying in the air

Your assuming:

A. The duo doesn't simply block it

B. He can even gather the energy to unleash the attack before he gets a blade in his face.

Not to forget that Bane was also a master practitioner of Force Lightning.

No, doing one uncontrolled blast of force lighting does NOT make you a master. Sorry.

And Double Bladed Saber is more dangerous then Single Bladed Saber.

Thats besides the point, a DBL is NOT the same thing as a SBL, All of the movements for every form will be different, thus Bane hasn't seen anything on Anakin or Obi Wans level of mastery of these forms.

DB Saber has more chance to hit you from un-suspecting angles. Why do you think that Darth Maul prefered Double Bladed Saber over Single Blade Saber?

Using Maul as one example does not help your point. Why do mostly all Jedi and Sith masters prefer a SBL? Why does Mace Windu who has mastered and created a new style prefer a SBL? Why does Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Jacen, Revan and even Bane all use SBL's?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And that means what exactly? The only reason he survived as long as he did was because he memorised all of Kas'im's moves, when Kas'im did something new he shit his pants, the only reason he was even able to win was because Kas'im took the time out of the duel to give a little speech, and not only that Kas'im BLOCKED(!) his "1337" force wave. So really whats your point? Neither his saber skills or his force powers beat Kas'im, it was his tactical thinking that did that, something Anakin (being damn near a military genius) has in abundance.

Kas'im is one of the most prodigous Saber duelists in Star Wars Saga. It was impressive for Bane to survive against such a vicious duelist.

And he was trained by Kas'im in Saber combat and became one of the best duelists of his age. He won't get WTFpwnd by Anakin and Obi-Wan in few seconds.

He can hold out in tough situations on his own by taking advantage of every chance he gets. This is what I mean't.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So...Revans holocron didn't save him from getting his ass beat by Kas'im, Revans holocron didn't save him from having his force wave blocked. Whats your point? Revans holocron gives him an invisible advantage in battle? No, especially when doesn't even use ANY of the powers Revan "taught" him in an actual fight.

Do you think that Revan's holocron was a warrior machine that would save him?

He learned some techniques from Revan's holocron that would help him in later situations. But it is true that he did not wanted to try some dangerous offensive techniques that Revan knew. Still he gained some useful knowledge from it.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And Bane also has fought in some battles.

Random Sith Student #67
Sirak (twice)
Sirak and his buddies and would have lost had it not been for Githany
Kas'im
Qordris (it wasn't an actual fight)
The Orbalisk
Some Random bird.

Oh yes thats such an impressive resume


This is what happened in POD. Bane's story is not yet finished.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
He's neither equal or superior he's inferior. Plain and simple, He hasn't experienced HALF the things Anakin has. He has seen ONE master who has mastered the 7 styles on a Double Bladed Saber, thats nothing compared to Anakin who has seen mostly all forms of saber combat, is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever, he is proficient with Ataru and Shien, and as ROVD states he knows techniques, styles and forms from all forms of combat. Bane seeing one master does NOT compare.

Anakin's fight against Droids and Thugs is useless in this case. His fights against the Sith enemies is what that matters.

And if Bane can counter moves of a Double Bladed Saber in combat from one of the most prodigous Saber Duelists, then why can't he counter moves of a Single Blade Saber?

Kas'im was no less then Anakin in Saber Skills. And Double Bladed Saber is more difficult to counter then a Single Blade one.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No its not, Anakin went from being a joke compared to Dooku to having Dooku kneeling at his feet with his hands cut off in 3 years, to dismiss the advantage of time to train and prepare is completely ridicules, Anakin and Obi Wan went from being an ineffective fighting pair divided by Anakins arrogance to one of the most powerful duos ever in Star Wars who knew each other inside and out.

Advantage of Djem So style over Makashi style is what helped Anakin in over-powering Dooku. And still that unbreakable pair of Anakin and Obi-Wan was broken by Dooku in that fight. Not very compelling indeed.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Bane learned techniques...big whoop, in his one chance to shine and show off all his new leet Sith powers he learned from Revan what does he do? Does a straight duel and a force wave. Oh yes SOOOO impressive, tell me please what powers has Revan taught Bane that will be effective in this combat situation? None you can name with out pulling shit out your ass.

That Force Wave managed to collapse the entire Rakatan Temple, which is not joke.

And Drew did not mentioned that what specific powers Bane learned from Revan. Instead he only hinted that Bane got some useful training from Revan's holocron. Logic dictates that this training changed his perceptions and also made him more powerful.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So...

So this fight was a major lesson for Bane and from such a vicious experience, he reformed himself further.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yeah, considering that he would have spammed them against Kas'im if he could pull this off, and not only that it was such a direct clumsy display of power that it was easily blocked with in a second of seeing the attack. Then we have the fact that he took a good 5 or so seconds to gather the energy to even do the attack, again he's not spamming these. If Bane takes even half a second to attempt this he'll be dead, The duo almost killed Dooku within a second because he lost focus.

Kas'im was also very strong in the Force. But this does not means that Anakin and Obi-Wan would be also able to block a Force attack of this magnitude.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your assuming:

A. The duo doesn't simply block it

B. He can even gather the energy to unleash the attack before he gets a blade in his face.


The duo could not defend against Force Push and we are talking about Force Wave here. Can you notice the difference of intensity between these two Force moves?

And you are assuming that Obi-Wan and Anakin will continously batter on Bane. This is not the case.

Just watch that how Dooku defended against attacks of this Duo and then manage to split them in few seconds.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, doing one uncontrolled blast of force lighting does NOT make you a master. Sorry.

This is not an arguement. He could generate Force Lightning to a much higher magnitude, which can be a threat to non-suspecting victims.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Thats besides the point, a DBL is NOT the same thing as a SBL, All of the movements for every form will be different, thus Bane hasn't seen anything on Anakin or Obi Wans level of mastery of these forms.

DBL is more difficult to counter then SBL. Bane can counter SBL based attacks as well. It is not that he will be pwned in just few seconds.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Using Maul as one example does not help your point. Why do mostly all Jedi and Sith masters prefer a SBL? Why does Mace Windu who has mastered and created a new style prefer a SBL? Why does Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Jacen, Revan and even Bane all use SBL's?

Ok! how about Exar Kun and Bastilla?

And their are some more. DBL is weilded by those who are very well versed in its fighting style.

As far as Yoda goes, he's the greatest foe the darkside has ever known, and much in part to his experience. Now being that he has mastered his craft enough to train others for over 800 years, it purely logical to assume that he has had many encounters in which to learn himself. So to say the Grandmaster leader of the most powerful Jedi order (save for NJO's god like council) has little experience or that his age is irrelevant, is ludicrous and borders the line of idiocy.

Saying that Kas'Im is better than Maul, Jinn, and Grevious is irrelevant, because so were all the people that beat them. Even if OB1 used the darkside to win, it doesn't matter. If you want to use that as an excuse, its the same as saying the only reason Bane won if because of his memory of Kas'Ims dueling steps. The fact is, it doesn't matter what he used, he won. maul is dead and OB1 lives on to defeat GG, who would of won by saber anyway judging by the way he was hacking off GG's hands.

Then you say that a force push can send an opponent flying away. Well why wouldn't Ani and Ob1 be able to do the same? Last i checked they both had the force and were pretty damn good at it.

Kas'im is one of the most prodigous Saber duelists in Star Wars Saga. It was impressive for Bane to survive against such a vicious duelist.

What don't you get about he knew him inside out? No matter how many adjectives you use to describe Kas'im it wont change this fact. Bane trained with Kas'im for endless hours, thats why he was able to counter and stay in the game with Kas'im for that long, thats why when Kas'im broke out a new style that Bane had never seen he got shitted on. And big whoop Kas'im is one of the best, so is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan, Obi Wan of whom can block 16 strikes per second.

And he was trained by Kas'im in Saber combat and became one of the best duelists of his age. He won't get WTFpwnd by Anakin and Obi-Wan in few seconds.

Key Word: Of his age, the New Sith were jokes, as Bane himself even says "The Dark Side is being spread to thin" thus it was making them very weak. Now compare that to the CW Jedi who are stated as being "The Golden Age of the Jedi" they lived in an era were people like Mace WIndu who not only did was Kas'im did "Mastering styles" but created a brand new one, and HE even thinks Anakin is likely stronger then him.

He can hold out in tough situations on his own by taking advantage of every chance he gets. This is what I mean't.

Oh great so he's like every other above average duelist ever.

Do you think that Revan's holocron was a warrior machine that would save him?

No, but you seem to.

He learned some techniques from Revan's holocron that would help him in later situations. But it is true that he did not wanted to try some dangerous offensive techniques that Revan knew. Still he gained some useful knowledge from it.

Tell me what he learned, exactly. Oh thats right...you can't. Because your just pulling shit out your ass. He had his chance to show of his new sith powers in his duel with Kas'im and the only thing he did was a force wave.

This is what happened in POD. Bane's story is not yet finished.

Yeah and he could have sat on his ass for the rest of his days till Zahnah aced him, by your logic The Exile is the most powerful, uber supreme being ever...you want me to prove it? Well her story isn't finished yet so she'll become that cause I wish it to happen.

Anakin's fight against Droids and Thugs is useless in this case. His fights against the Sith enemies is what that matters.

Are you serious? Experience in battle matters, living in a constant state of life or death, having to make on the battle field decisions all that battle hardening was one of the reasons Anakin went from a whiny ***** with a frilly braid to a warrior capable of annihilating masters of the force in 8 seconds.

Even still Anakin has more experience in actual dueling situations, look at all the powerful people he has to spar with, Mace, Obi Wan, Cin, the countless other Jedi, then we have the people who's he's dueled like Ventress, Dooku and Durge, Durge being one of the most physically powerful people in the SW universe has killed numerous Jedi AND Sith and moves so fast he told Obi Wan it seemed as if he moving in slow motion. Bane doesn't compare.

And if Bane can counter moves of a Double Bladed Saber in combat from one of the most prodigous Saber Duelists, then why can't he counter moves of a Single Blade Saber?

Because there not the same. they don't have the same movements forms or sets. If anything a staff user is slower in there movements then a single hilt user, because of the limited movement and such, compare how fast Maul was moving in TMP to how fast Anakin v Obi Wan was, Maul moves like a slug in comparison.

Kas'im was no less then Anakin in Saber Skills. And Double Bladed Saber is more difficult to counter then a Single Blade one.

Anakin would murk Kas'im, And no its really not, Obi Wan Kenobi as a padawan can defend it, Vader defended the movements and even broke Mauls staff. If anything the staff is more cumbersome to its user, hence why mostly ALL Jedi and Sith don't use it.

Advantage of Djem So style over Makashi style is what helped Anakin in over-powering Dooku.

You've had this argument crushed so many times why do you keep bringing it up? It was NOT the only factor

And still that unbreakable pair of Anakin and Obi-Wan was broken by Dooku in that fight. Not very compelling indeed.

And when they did get broken up they were back together in seconds, and the only reason Dooku got such a large gap of time was because he had the Destroyer Droids to tie Obi Wan up with, Bane does not.

That Force Wave managed to collapse the entire Rakatan Temple, which is not joke.

That Kas'im blocked.

And Drew did not mentioned that what specific powers Bane learned from Revan. Instead he only hinted that Bane got some useful training from Revan's holocron. Logic dictates that this training changed his perceptions and also made him more powerful.

And yet he performed no NEW! and EXCITING! Sith powers in his only life or death duel. Logic dictates that he didn't learn anything from Revans holocron that could help in a one on one situation.

So this fight was a major lesson for Bane and from such a vicious experience, he reformed himself further.

And you would know this how? I'm glad to know you now speak for characters.

Kas'im was also very strong in the Force. But this does not means that Anakin and Obi-Wan would be also able to block a Force attack of this magnitude.

Your basing this off what?

The duo could not defend against Force Push

No Obi Wan could not defend against. Force charged boot in the face which only made him madder.

and we are talking about Force Wave here. Can you notice the difference of intensity between these two Force moves?

Do you not read? BANE NEEDED TO CHARGE THE ATTACK. He can't spam them out over and over, SO while he's trying to charge the attacked he'd get a blade in his mouth.

And you are assuming that Obi-Wan and Anakin will continously batter on Bane. This is not the case.

Then what will happen? Will Bane shoot magic force waves out his ass?

Just watch that how Dooku defended against attacks of this Duo and then manage to split them in few seconds.

Again that was Obi Wan, and this is "Crystal Clear" Anakin, Bane diverts his attention away for a second and he'd get a blade in his face.


This is not an arguement. He could generate Force Lightning to a much higher magnitude, which can be a threat to non-suspecting victims.

Does that make him a master? No. Shooting lighting ONE time does NOT make you a master.

DBL is more difficult to counter then SBL. Bane can counter SBL based attacks as well.

Based on what? Again, he may be able to beat a sith student, but not someone like Anakin who is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever.

Ok! how about Exar Kun and Bastilla?

Big whoop two more, compared to what THOUSANDS of Jedi and Sith. Really...

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
What don't you get about he knew him inside out? No matter how many adjectives you use to describe Kas'im it wont change this fact. Bane trained with Kas'im for endless hours, thats why he was able to counter and stay in the game with Kas'im for that long, thats why when Kas'im broke out a new style that Bane had never seen he got shitted on. And big whoop Kas'im is one of the best, so is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan, Obi Wan of whom can block 16 strikes per second.

But does Anakin and Obi-Wan know Bane from inside out? No!

Did they ever faced Bane and know about his fighting style? No!

Same goes for Bane. So surprises can be expected from both sides.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Key Word: Of his age, the New Sith were jokes, as Bane himself even says "The Dark Side is being spread to thin" thus it was making them very weak. Now compare that to the CW Jedi who are stated as being "The Golden Age of the Jedi" they lived in an era were people like Mace WIndu who not only did was Kas'im did "Mastering styles" but created a brand new one, and HE even thinks Anakin is likely stronger then him.

Their were some better fighters in his age as well. Kaan and Kas'im were among the notables. Bane was trained by Lord Kas'im and became a good Saber duelist as a result.

Still I said that Bane < Anakin in Saber Skills. So you don't need to tell me that how good was Anakin. And it will be not WTFpwnage for Bane when he faces Anakin.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Oh great so he's like every other above average duelist ever.

Much better then average duelist of his age.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, but you seem to.

No! I did not mean't it this way.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Tell me what he learned, exactly. Oh thats right...you can't. Because your just pulling shit out your ass. He had his chance to show of his new sith powers in his duel with Kas'im and the only thing he did was a force wave.

It depends upon the situation that whether Bane will unleash a certain feat or not and what feat will he unleash. He unleashed one useful feat in case of his fight against Kas'im and boom, game was over.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yeah and he could have sat on his ass for the rest of his days till Zahnah aced him, by your logic The Exile is the most powerful, uber supreme being ever...you want me to prove it? Well her story isn't finished yet so she'll become that cause I wish it to happen.

You are taking things out of proportion in this case. What I said is that we don't know the full story of Bane yet. We don't know that how many more enemies will he face in the next story. Same goes for Exile and Revan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Are you serious? Experience in battle matters, living in a constant state of life or death, having to make on the battle field decisions all that battle hardening was one of the reasons Anakin went from a whiny ***** with a frilly braid to a warrior capable of annihilating masters of the force in 8 seconds.

I know that experience in battle matters but it does not matters in a fight against a Jedi or a Sith. Your experience against a Jedi or Sith opponent will help you in this case.

And Anakin's victory over Dooku cannot be taken in to consideration against more powerful enemies. Defeating Bane will take more time.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Even still Anakin has more experience in actual dueling situations, look at all the powerful people he has to spar with, Mace, Obi Wan, Cin, the countless other Jedi, then we have the people who's he's dueled like Ventress, Dooku and Durge, Durge being one of the most physically powerful people in the SW universe has killed numerous Jedi AND Sith and moves so fast he told Obi Wan it seemed as if he moving in slow motion. Bane doesn't compare.

And Bane learned a lot from Kas'im, who is among the greatest Saber duelists of all times. This alone matters a lot.

And Bane is not < then Durge. He is physically strong, pumped up by orbalisks and is an exceptional warrior.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Because there not the same. they don't have the same movements forms or sets. If anything a staff user is slower in there movements then a single hilt user, because of the limited movement and such, compare how fast Maul was moving in TMP to how fast Anakin v Obi Wan was, Maul moves like a slug in comparison.

Maul was not so bad and was more acrobatic. Anakin was dominating however and thus I referred this as an over-powering factor of Anakin.

And Kas'im is superior to Maul by a large margin.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Anakin would murk Kas'im, And no its really not, Obi Wan Kenobi as a padawan can defend it, Vader defended the movements and even broke Mauls staff. If anything the staff is more cumbersome to its user, hence why mostly ALL Jedi and Sith don't use it.

Sorry! you don't know that Anakin could murk Kas'im.

And Obi-Wan in TPM was ready for Jedi Trials and he did well when he used "Anger" and "Rage" to influence his power against Maul. And Maul is not on par with Kas'im.

Kas'im and Exar Kun were excellent DBL Duelists.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
You've had this argument crushed so many times why do you keep bringing it up? It was NOT the only factor

I know but it was the main factor. Others were his Anger and Strength.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And when they did get broken up they were back together in seconds, and the only reason Dooku got such a large gap of time was because he had the Destroyer Droids to tie Obi Wan up with, Bane does not.

And still Dooku threw them away through his Force Mastery.

But again I forgot about the Droids. So you have a point and even before this, I have mentioned that Bane will be defeated in a pure Saber fight against the Duo of Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
That Kas'im blocked.

Force Mastery?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And yet he performed no NEW! and EXCITING! Sith powers in his only life or death duel. Logic dictates that he didn't learn anything from Revans holocron that could help in a one on one situation.

Revan's holocron did contained knowledge of some very dangerous techniques that could be useful. But Bane chose to learn those that he considered reasonable for him.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And you would know this how? I'm glad to know you now speak for characters.

You think that Bane did not gained anything from that fight? How about experience?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your basing this off what?

Obervations from the movies.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No Obi Wan could not defend against. Force charged boot in the face which only made him madder.

I did not get this?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Do you not read? BANE NEEDED TO CHARGE THE ATTACK. He can't spam them out over and over, SO while he's trying to charge the attacked he'd get a blade in his mouth.

I will concede this one.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Then what will happen? Will Bane shoot magic force waves out his ass?

Anakin and Obi-Wan are not machines. They can make mistakes as well.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Again that was Obi Wan, and this is "Crystal Clear" Anakin, Bane diverts his attention away for a second and he'd get a blade in his face.

I already said before that if Bane does not gets the chance to resort to his Force Mastery, then he will be destroyed.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Does that make him a master? No. Shooting lighting ONE time does NOT make you a master.

It shows his potential however.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Based on what? Again, he may be able to beat a sith student, but not someone like Anakin who is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever.

I said before that Bane < Anakin in Saber Skills.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Big whoop two more, compared to what THOUSANDS of Jedi and Sith. Really...

And those two were adept to DBL style compared to those THOUSANDS who were not.

Really...

But does Anakin and Obi-Wan know Bane from inside out? No!

yeah they kinda do.

Did they ever faced Bane and know about his fighting style? No!

Hey, guess what style Bane uses...Djem So....guess who is possibly the greatest master of Djem So ever....Anakin...guess who knows how to defend Djem So like its the back of his hand...Obi Wan. The Duo already know Banes style front to back, and Anakin knows it MUCH better then he does.

Their were some better fighters in his age as well. Kaan and Kas'im were among the notables. Bane was trained by Lord Kas'im and became a good Saber duelist as a result.

Oh, wow you put one extra on the list...the era sucked. For Jedi and Sith.

It depends upon the situation that whether Bane will unleash a certain feat or not and what feat will he unleash. He unleashed one useful feat in case of his fight against Kas'im and boom, game was over.

Your trying to make this out like Bane can just do the Force Wave whenever he wants, he has to leave himself vulnerable to charge it and then hope the user doesn't block it.

But this is irrelevant, tell what force powers did Revan teach Bane that are useful in a fight.

You are taking things out of proportion in this case. What I said is that we don't know the full story of Bane yet. We don't know that how many more enemies will he face in the next story. Same goes for Exile and Revan.

Exactly so you can't assume anything, thats why claiming he has more experience then is shown is false.

And Anakin's victory over Dooku cannot be taken in to consideration against more powerful enemies. Defeating Bane will take more time.

Yes it can, if he can do that to Dooku and turn his entire life into a utter joke, and he can murk Cin Drallig with one hand, he will most certainly be able to take on and beat Bane.

And Bane learned a lot from Kas'im, who is among the greatest Saber duelists of all times. This alone matters a lot.

And Anakin is one of the greatest duelist ever. Adding Obi Wan is OverKill.

And Bane is not < then Durge. He is physically strong, pumped up by orbalisks and is an exceptional warrior.

Durge is stronger, probably faster and has lived 2000+ years and fought and killed more Jedi and Sith then Bane could dream of.

Maul was not so bad and was more acrobatic. Anakin was dominating however and thus I referred this as an over-powering factor of Anakin.

But Anakin with a SBL was faster. The Point.

Sorry! you don't know that Anakin could murk Kas'im.

Sorry! Yeah I do.

And Obi-Wan in TPM was ready for Jedi Trials and he did well when he used "Anger" and "Rage" to influence his power against Maul.

So...

And Maul is not on par with Kas'im.

So...

Kas'im and Exar Kun were excellent DBL Duelists.

So...does that mean they could move faster then a equally skilled SBL user.

I know but it was the main factor. Others were his Anger and Strength.

It wasn't the style it was his raw power.

And still Dooku threw them away through his Force Mastery.

No, he threw OBI WAN, then proceeded to get owned by Anakin

Force Mastery?

Your assuming Anakin can't block his force attacks, that they won't be all over him, that the moment he tries an attack such as the force wave (which requires gathered energy) that he WONT get a blade in his face.

Revan's holocron did contained knowledge of some very dangerous techniques that could be useful.

Such as...

But Bane chose to learn those that he considered reasonable for him.

And you know this how? I was under the impression he was jotting everything Revan said down whether he could perform it or not.

You think that Bane did not gained anything from that fight? How about experience?

The experience of learning how not to be pwned by Juyo?

I did not get this?

I meant to put Anakin, it should have read " A boot to Anakins face only made him madder."

Anakin and Obi-Wan are not machines. They can make mistakes as well.

Accept for they trained together for over 1000 hours, they know each other "more intimately then lovers." they are described as THE Jedi team, the best. I highly doubt after all that they'd slip up.

I already said before that if Bane does not gets the chance to resort to his Force Mastery, then he will be destroyed.

He'll get destroyed either way, the only way he could win is if he was on a podium 50 feet away from the two and spamming force powers.

It shows his potential however.

Irrelevant. He is not a master, as you asserted.

I said before that Bane < Anakin in Saber Skills.

Duh.


And those two were adept to DBL style compared to those THOUSANDS who were not.

And Githany and Lumiya are adept at a lightwhip compared to the thousands who are not and yet they'd still get shitted on against the top dogs, and most of the middle tier.

Really...

Yes really.

There's noe vidence of the reverse either. Don't go blindingly biased on Bane...Anakin is able to keep pace with Durge and that's no easy feat

Keeping pace with Durge and being stronger are different.

An increase in the recognition of one’s own force also increases one’s own physical strength. We’ve seen Yoda, Kun, and Ulic all three substantially increase their physical strength just by “channeling” the force into their muscles.

Since I specified BOTS Bane as the contender, he has the strength to move an object several hundreds of thousands of tons in weight trough telekenis. Anderson was comfortable with leaving the passage “that he could play with orbits and gravity” like a child with coloured balls.

Meaning? He could control celestial bodies with apparent ease. If he can tk objects several hundreds of thousands of tons in weight, surely he can channel enough “force strength” into his muscles to overpower Anakin and Obi Wan.

Durge can open up solid durasteel and rip through armored Mandalorians like paper.

That’s just how he fights. Just because Bane decided not to use his fists to pound his enemies into bloody pulps, it doesn’t mean that he can’t. He never got into a position where he was required to use brute strength to smash the skulls of his contenders. He relied on schemes to annihilate the Sith and the majority of the Jedi. You don’t have any proof to confirm that Durge is stronger than Bane; just that Durge is alone a physically strong character.

The Sith failed to kill him

The Sith didn’t want to kill him. Are you talking about Kaan’s order? They hired Durge as a mercenary; they had no intention of killing him.

so did the Mandos

Last time I checked, the Mandos were perfectly content with torturing Durge.

If Anakin covers his back properly, this won't happen.

Anakin covered Obi Wan’s back in the Invisible hand, they were actually agreeing in contrast to their fight at Geonosis, where Anakin just ran in and got pwned via lightning. That still didn’t prevent Obi Wan from being pushed away first, and rag dolled the next time.


And that's assuming Bane uses the same tactics

Why not? Bane is quite a tactician and strategist. He did orchestrate the fall of the Sith and almost all the Jedi during his time period. It’s not a stretch to imagine that he would think about using the force to toss either Kenobi or Anakin away. It’s not a difficult concept to fathom.

Dooku had a tactic that Bane would not.

I’ll humor you. If I were Bane and I saw the two coming at me, I would use the force to hurl the one I sensed to be weaker into a pole or sharp object, and isolate the stronger one so I could finish them off. It’s rather simple.


Moreover, these Orbalisks won't hold up for long if anakin hammers into them with fist

Proof that Anakin’s fists can crush through orbalisk armour? The thing was able to deflect direct impact from the talons of an enormous flying beast swooping at high velocities downwards, without even so much as a dent.

And the scenario where Anakin could “continuously” hammer his fists in Bane’s armour is absurd. Bane would have to be standing their, arms outstretched while Anakin repeatedly punches.

Hm, last I checked, Qordis was the same as Kaan: He was a cruel, weakling coward and the proponent of all wrong with the Sith

He was a weakling compared to Bane, but he was a knowledgeable Sith Lord of a warlike period. I was not using the fact that Bane killed him per se, more that Bane killed him while leisurely giving a speech and chuckling. It wasn’t even a thought.

...one of those when the Darkside was spread too thin'n and all?

That doesn’t mean they were weak. He was just referring to how stealth was better than overt militarism. The only way that stealth and secrecy could work was if there were fewer of them.


Killing Dooku is a hundred times more impressive than killing Qordis

Killing a trained Sith Lord of a militant period while standing in the same spot, laughing, and not even lifting a hand is unimpressive compared to actually having to pull out lightsabers to take down Dooku? Sure Dooku is stronger, but not by the mind blowingly godly amounts that you are insisting on.

So, when Bane's focusing-he'll have to concentrate on Saber or Force, Anakin finishes him.

Of course, that was what happened when Dooku sent him flying via round house kick and at the same time playing the “ragdoll” game with Kenobi. Give me a break. More like Bane sends Kenobi effortlessly flying away with a “bit more” than a “whipcrack” of power, and fights Anakin to submission.

Anakin is not going to just suddenly be able to cut through Bane’s impenetrable saber defense and somehow land a blow on Bane’s face. Anakin’s attacks become massively predictable. All Bane would have to do is create a solid defense protecting his face region and commence with striking Anakin in any position of his body, or more conveniently send him flying through the force or sending a seismic blast to injure him.

against someone whose moves he knew. He knew Kas'im as well as Obi-wan knew Anakin.

Not quite lightsnake. Bane had thought he knew Kas’im well. In actuality, Bane mentions that “only now was he seeing Kas’im’s true ability, and he was barely able to defend himself. Barely but still able.”

So quite clearly, he was able to create what was narrated as an impenetrable defense against Kas’im’s unstoppable attack. Which he was, I forgot to add, mostly unfamiliar with.


Anakin is also one of the best of the swordsmen who've ever lived, the finest master of Djem So dooku had ever seen. It takes a single motion to deflect Bane's saber and drive the point through his head. And that's in conjunction with Bane. They're not going to let up

That’s ridiculous Lightsnake. Kas’im, the perfect weapon, master of all seven forms of lightsaber styles who honed his skills for decades, and who was stated to be possibly the greatest duelist the galaxy had ever seen was unable to do this. Anakin and Obi Wan were initially unable to do the same with Dooku, and Dooku had even less of a defensive advantage than Bane with his orbalisks.

In other words, since they know exactly what to focus on and can attack so in conjunction, Bane's in...well, he's in serious trouble.

Just a few things. Obi Wan will most likely be lying unconscious with a couple of hundred of pounds of debris on top of him, after a seconds worth of exertion by Bane. If Bane wants, he can humour Anakin by letting him strike his orbalisks. Anakin, will be surprised, naturally, that his lightsaber isn’t doing anything. Anakin will be trying to cut through Bane’s unstoppable defense, which the latter was able to use effectively against Kas’im. Finally Anakin will succumb.

decides to slam a fist into him-are those orbalisks stronger than Super Battle Droid armor we saw him dismantle with his hand in Sithisis?

Considering they can defend against multiple head on collisions from a lightsaber, and the strength of an enormous flying beasts swooping down at extreme velocities then yes, very easily.

Because in the ROTS novelization, Obi-wan knew Anakin 'more intimately than a lover' and Anakin was a berserker who was hardly thinking clearly.

They were both stated as knowing each other more intimately than lovers. They both knew each others moves. Clearly, no one was at a disadvantage because they both knew each others attacks.

My point is his fury should have given him a blatant advantage in a “GRRRR, I IS STRONGER THAN YOU IN THE FORCE” sense. Yet all I see of Anakin is his inability to overcome a grieving Kenobi in a “force push” lock.

And did I add Anakin ability to defeat someone like Durge? Who's totally invulnerable? With armor supposedly impenetrable as it's Mando Iron?

By sending him into the sun, granted. I haven’t put any suns nearby, and I didn’t put Bane in a convoy heading towards one either.

As you can see above, Durge was busy punching Anakin into a pulp. Anakin got lucky, and noticed a crateful of explosives that he had the fortune of hurling at Durge. Afterwards, he was even luckier that a pod was nearby which he could use to send Durge into the sun.

You make it seem as if Anakin was out muscling Durge. Durge was actually pretty close into killing Anakin, there were just items around that led to Ani’s victory.


When he was focusing and all?

Focused? Do you mean smashed down a flight of stairs, and fatigued after the toughest duel in his life, with also less than 3 years of force training? Even after all this, he was able to destroy the Rakatan temple and bring down what was described as tons of rock and mortar down on Kas’im.


Last I checked, Anakin tore up Zonama Sekot when he was 13 as well.

Unifying Force? Direct me to the passage LS, and I’ll analyze the context.


No, he hasn't done it again, but he's demonstrated the power and has the ability to do such.

No lightsnake, he does not have a firm hold over it. He would have smashed Kenobi into pieces in his “fury” if that were the case. He would easily buried Dooku, or crushed all his bones completely if he fully realized his potential. Hell, he could have just collapsed the Jedi temple on top of everyone during the invasion with a scream if he could direct his full potential.

The point is? He hasn’t, it was one instinctive surge that he hasn’t demonstrated ever again.

What's next, why didn't Bane 'rip apart' Kas'im with the Force? Stated Kas'im was no match for Bane there

Well, you see, he did sort of. It’s called “bringing the temple of ancients” down on him.

When I see Bane match durge and dismantle SPDs with his hand, I'll agree

Yeah right. When I see Anakin having around a hundred orbalisks pump strength and adrenaline into his system, and have the ability to manipulate celestial bodies with the force, I’ll consider whether he can channel the force so as to increase his physical strength as much as Bane can.

And Exar hefted up that squid thing...last I checked, intertebrates and cephalapoids are exceptionally light.

And how do you know how heavy what Kun was lifting was? It could have a completely different biology than an invertebrate (I think you meant) or a cephalopod(I think you meant.) The thing was certainly able to stand upright, hinting that it has some basic form vertebrae. You are speculating on its biological composition.


And Anakin's fight with Durge proves quite a bit in itself

Anakin never outmuscled Durge. He sent Durge flying into the sun after a set of convenient events.

In the movies, GL intends for Yoda to be one of the most powerful beings in history, and Palpatine as well.

When I see it from GL, and not secondary sources, then I will believe it. For now, I think it is safe for us to follow GL’s interpretation of things through his movies. Absolute canon always trumps secondary sources (Stover, Lee, Anderson).


Apparently GL's intentions extend as far as your opinion

Certain things are rather objectively displayed in the film, LS. Yoda struggles to send a senate pod hurtling back at Palpatine. When the giant mass was plummeting towards Kenobi and Anakin, he was able to lift it, but extremely slowly and with difficulty.

Compare this with BOTS Bane (as I have specified) who TK’ed an entire moon, while maintaining control of his flying beast, and we can see as per Lucas’ interpretation from his movies, neither Yoda or Sidious are stronger (For Sidious the ROTS incarnation of course.) The same applies with figures like Kun or Revan, whom I consider equally as powerful as Bane.

The NEC: "Yoda failed to defeat the strongest Sith in history." (I even asked Dan wallace to clarify 'power'...strangely, all the SW authors I've spoken to list Yoda as top of the line in comparison to anyone but Palp and Luke

This is, unfortunately, blatantly contradicting the information presented from Lucas’ own films. I hold Lucas as the highest form of canon, everything else is fallible secondary sources which contradict the intent of absolute canon.

If Lucas were to devote one of his upcoming mini series on Darth Bane, and he portrays Bane to be weaker and slower than Yoda, then I would believe these claims and acknowledge that “your” secondary sources are in accordance with the will of the absolute canon. I would also disregard Karpyshyn’s and Anderson’s works as fallible secondary sources. Anything, Lightsnake, that contradicts with Lucas’ intent are really just “fanboy bibles” as Nai put it. In the situation that things currently are, your secondary sources are “poetics” which can be used to emphasize some other aspect of power. I follow Lucas before secondary sources.

Lucas officially okayed and approved Yoda's power and feats in the EU there.

He didn’t “okay” all the material. Stover portrayed information in the novelization that was far different from what was in the movies. How Kit Fisto died, the fight between Dooku and Anaki; much of that material is incorrect because it contradicts Lucas’ films. Some of it is correct true, but you are making assumptions when you state that Lucas “okayed” any of Stover’s “Yoda wankjobs.”

Stover can give Yoda the best fellatio known to man, but if it contradicts with how Lucas portrayed the information within his mythos, then I cannot come to accept these “secondary sources.”


We've seen the same for Yoda and Mace and Obi-wan and Anakin at their best. Unsubstantiated hyperbole in PoD? Just maybe. Cuts both ways.

Unsubstantiated hyperbole? Not quite. If Lucas was to make a mini-series and provided evidence showing how difficult it was for Bane to muster a force push, or how slow he was, then it is hyperbole. As it stands, there is nothing that contradicts Lucas’ movies.

ROTs novelization and ROTs visual guide. .

You mean this passage?

His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him

He didn’t move his arms sixteen times per second. He let most of Grievous’ blows sail past him, and considering that Grievous was essentially a non force sensitive robot, that doesn’t mean much. He couldn’t really precog Obi Wan’s movements; all he could do was fall back on robotic speed.

It also prevents him from being menaced by Bane's abilities.

Sorry Lightsnake, but all I have to say is what? Even if Kenobi could defend that many blows, how does it stop Bane from tossing him away like Dooku did?

He's also never fought someone who used one. Using one and defending from one?

That’s absurd. The single bladed lightsaber style was the rudimentary form of wielding a lightsaber. If anything, that is the style that he is most familiar with. He did fight Sirak’s cousins, so he obviously knows how someone will wield the weapon against him. Also, you are being illogical with your idea that defending and using is completely inseperable. They’re not. Since he knows how to use one, he also knows the possible attacks and combinations that are associated with one.


He certainly mastered all the forms

Proof? Knowledge and the degree of mastery that Kas’im has are different.


Hardly. he needs to get it into Bane's head or through his eye and that'll end Bane rather succintly.

Which is meant by “deep into his face”. Bane could move back you know…

Let’s not forget the fact that the face is the only region that Bane is defending, and the chances of Anakin striking his face without risking a disembodying blow across his own torso is highly un-lika-lly.


Or sweep it across Bane's neck[quote]

You haven’t proven that Anakin can even get that far. I can easily say that all Bane has to do is crush Kenobi and Anakin with one stroke.

[quote] IT's the same principle...burned cells don't come back


We don’t know how orbalisks work. They could cause superficial burned cells to shed and heighten cell division so as to regenerate an organ. All we know is that it regenerates.


You assume this precludes anything...Grievous's only weak spot was his chest...

That’s different, insomuch as all the other parts were cuttable.


Durge had almost no weak spot and Anakin ran circles around him until he found a way to kill him.

More like Durge punched the shit out of Anakin until the latter got lucky finding explosives lying on the ground.


Moreover, how the hell can he defend his head effectively with Djem So? Keeping your saber raised that high is near suicide.

I am sorry, but I actually have no clue what you are talking about. Why would he want to raise his saber above his head? He never did it with Kas’im.

Well, Anakin's stronger than Bane.

Ummm… this is the subject of our debate Lightsnake; you should know that you can’t use what you are trying to prove to prove something.
what's to stop Ani and Obi-wan from joining together and launching a full on attack?

They can certainly try, but as I’ve said before, Kenobi would be ragdolled away. Anakin and Bane would then fight, which I see Bane winning.
And Obi-wan blocked Grievous's unstoppable attack of 16 strikes a second.

Most of that was wild flailing that Kenobi let “pass by.” And? Grievous isn’t really force sensitive, he’s no Bane.

And proof Bane'll do this right off? It'll leave him wide, wide open.

Dooku was able to do this in the movies, and he was able to keep himself in one piece. Considering Bane was able to defend against Kas’im, and can rely on orbalisks for defense, I can see him pulling off the same stunt.

Weapons and technology states that every solid material will eventually break from a saber blade itself. Bane's armor can block a few strikes, but I doubt indefinitely

Proof? Cortosis for one. Orbalisks can indefinitely defend against lightsaber strikes. There are exceptions for almost every rule. Providing proof that Mando Iron breaks does not mean proof that orbalisks will break. You have to learn that LS.


And according to Lucas's vision, Obi-wan was fully focused and trying to finish Anakin off while Anakin couldn't think straight.

I would like proof for this assertion. The movies explicitly show how pained Obi Wan was. Narrative from the novels that do not contradict how Lucas portrays things in his movies also agrees with this view. In the movies, Kenobi even has a break down in the end.

And don't tell me Obi-wan was conflicted...he finished him without a hint of hesitation

Yeah right bro. Take a look at the movies. Obi Wan had a freaking break down by the end of the fight. His words even echo his feelings, “I have failed you Anakin,” and ”you were like my brother!”

When he sliced down at Anakin, you could even see how slow and hesitant he was.

Before the battle Kenobi shows reluctance, “He would see his friend, his student, his brother, turn and kneel in front of a black-cloaked Lord of the Sith….«Don't make me kill Anakin,» he said. «He's like my brother, Master.»”

During his duel against Anakin, Kenobi mentions that each strike was unbearable, “ And he knew that to strike Anakin down would burn his own heart to ash.”

Anakin even mentions that Obi Wan was hesitating, “ «You hesitate,» Anakin said. «The flaw of compassion," To which Kenobi replies “«It's not compassion,» Obi-Wan said sadly. «It's reverence for life. Even yours. It's respect for the man you were.»

Obi Wan mentions that he still loved Anakin, hence the battle would have been torture. Indeed, he states, “The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith. And here, and now, despite it all ...
Obi-Wan still loved him.”


and when he got Anakin on the ground he struck with intent to kill

That was obviously a half hearted attempt, and was easily stopped. It makes sense in light of other facts. Obi Wan was not in the condition to fight.

Well Lightsnake, it seems you and I can debate endlessly on the subject of Old School versus PT. I think its almost impossible to convince the other 😆

zephiel and you seem to forget that if bane were to "ragdoll" kenobi away it leaves him open to anakin

Haven't we already been through this? Both Anakin and Obi Wan were going through emotional problems during that duel, Anakins being, Padme, doubting himself, doubting Sidious, and berserker rage at Obi Wan. Obi Wan's being grief over his former friend.

On the subject of Bane's moon moving, as I said in past debates prove: How fast he did it, prove how much energy it takes to do the feat, prove how far Dxun was away from Onderon, You Can't. He could have moved it a centimeter a week and it could have took him a year to get off Dxun, since we have no timeline of how long he took on Dxun till his arrival on Onderon, we can't simply guess that "OMG Bane did it in seconds! cause he's my fav character!"

On all things breaking to a saber, its in the guide and every supposed thing that has been "lightsaber proof" has succumb to a saber, Mandalorian Iron in DLOTS and Cortosis in the Trawn trilogy. Why would the Orbalsks be any different?

As for regeneration, come on. If he had regeneration on the level your trying to plcae it, then why is he dead? If all his cells can be simply regenerated once they deteriorate he should be able to live indefinitely.

And are you seriously trying to compare Anakins skill with Djem So to some random Sith student on Korriban? Not to mention the fact that Bane only had one pass at them with his lightsaber. You keep hyping Kas'im as the best duelist ever, when there are multiple others who stand with and likely above him in that category: Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Dooku to name a few. Also why are you highlighting random "impenetrable" and "unstoppable" quotes? Especially when Kas'im so called "Unstoppable" attack was stopped two seconds latter and Banes "Impenetrable" defense was broken a little later also.

Your hyping Bane like Anakin is some kind off joke, like Bane will "humor" Anakins attempts to fight him, please. This is Anakin Skywalker who was able to turn a one of the most powerful Jedi ever, one of the greatest duelists ever into a living joke in 8 seconds. This is Anakin who simply had to visualize things coming true in the force and they happened. This is the same Anakin who wtfpwned Cin Drallig with one hand while simultaneously choking anther Jedi. Your HEAVILY underestimating Anakin, especially him being in the "crystal clear" state of mind.

In a straight up lightsaber duel with "this" Anakin, Bane cannot compete, how can he even contend with him in straight combat? Bane does Djem So, and he hasn't mastered the form, comparing that to Anakin who may be the greatest user of Djem So ever, who knows as ROVD says almost every form of combat, and their highest most dangerous forms, combining that with being in the state of mind he's in. Bane doesn't compare.


Killing a trained Sith Lord of a militant period while standing in the same spot, laughing, and not even lifting a hand is unimpressive compared to actually having to pull out lightsabers to take down Dooku? Sure Dooku is stronger, but not by the mind blowingly godly amounts that you are insisting on.

Uh yes it is, considering the Sith Lord in question is a joke, I love how when people want to claim that a character isn't a loser they say "well he was in a warlike period." well guess what, so was every one mentioned in this topic.

So basically what your saying is Bane pwning some loser, who was afraid of him as a a Sith Student, is more impressive then Anakin destroying one of the most powerful man to ever exist in the galaxy in 8 seconds? Would it have been better if Anakin laughed while doing it?

Anyways by about November this year Vader (in suit) will probably be back on top as one of the most powerful Sith ever, when the Force Unleashed is released, with all the crazy over the top force powers they have in that game so far.


Haven't we already been through this? Both Anakin and Obi Wan were going through emotional problems during that duel, Anakins being, Padme, doubting himself, doubting Sidious, and berserker rage at Obi Wan. Obi Wan's being grief over his former friend.

You said so yourself Styles in the Vader versus Bane thread:

Anakin wasn't wasn't weakened necessarily from that mind state and in fact that kind of rage gives people great power,

If you agree with that point of view then it would stand to reason that Anakin’s force push should have been much greater than usual, since the rage gave him power. Of course, he made stupid mistakes, but he should have been able to overpower Obi Wan in that deadlock at least.

On the subject of Bane's moon moving, as I said in past debates prove: How fast he did it, prove how much energy it takes to do the feat, prove how far Dxun was away from Onderon, You Can't. He could have moved it a centimeter a week and it could have took him a year to get off Dxun, since we have no timeline of how long he took on Dxun till his arrival on Onderon, we can't simply guess that "OMG Bane did it in seconds! cause he's my fav character!"

First thing is first: Bane isn’t really my favourite character, not even close. I would reserve that right to Revan, Obi Wan, Traya, Dooku, and Mace.

Secondly, there is proof that he had to push the moon in a relatively short period of time. First of all, his control over gravity and orbits was compared to “how a child might play with colored balls.” If Anderson was comfortable with making this kind of analogy, it really doesn’t make sense that it would take him THAT MUCH effort. Other than that, there are some real common sense things. He was on the back of a flying beast, so if he did not do it within a day at least, the creature would get hungry and probably not be able fly anymore. This would cause them both to plummet to their eventual death.

On all things breaking to a saber, its in the guide and every supposed thing that has been "lightsaber proof" has succumb to a saber, Mandalorian Iron in DLOTS and Cortosis in the Trawn trilogy. Why would the Orbalsks be any different?

I don’t know, because of some physical property of the parasites? If you want to state that the things were different, you are going to need some form of proof. Exceptions exist to every rule. Just because lightsabers can cut through Mandalorian Iron and cortosis eventually, doesn’t mean they cut through orbalisks. Bane slapped at multiple Orbalisks but noticed that the only thing which happened was that they ricocheted aside.

As for regeneration, come on. If he had regeneration on the level your trying to plcae it, then why is he dead?

I am not saying that his regeneration is infallible; I’m saying that only a serious trauma to his face (literally the lightsaber going in around halfways through ) would be able to kill him or cause him to be out cold.

And as for him dieing? The Jedi could have combined their will and erected a giant wall of light to separate him from the force. Without the force, his own Orbalisks could have possibly killed him. We don’t know how the Jedi killed him just that they eventually did.

And are you seriously trying to compare Anakins skill with Djem So to some random Sith student on Korriban?

No…just knocking out the assertions that Bane has no clue on how to defend against a single bladed lightsaber.

You keep hyping Kas'im as the best duelist ever, when there are multiple others who stand with and likely above him in that category: Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Dooku to name a few.

I would rank Kas’im in pure saber as being able to contend with Yoda and Mace giving them a hell of a battle due to his unpredictability and him mastering all forms of saber combat. I wouldn’t know who wins. I would say that he could take down Dooku due to his mastery of all forms of saber combat, and his ability to deflect massive scale force attacks.


Also why are you highlighting random "impenetrable" and "unstoppable" quotes? Especially when Kas'im so called "Unstoppable" attack

Bane’s mastery of the force was too much; he turned all of Kas’im’s knowledge into a joke much like Anakin did to Dooku. In conjunction with his force attacks, he has just the kind of leverage required to take down the duo.

was stopped two seconds latter and Banes "Impenetrable" defense was broken a little later

No, but the idea is that people can’t break through his defense unless they are around his level. Anakin’s saber skills are close to that level, so they will undoubtedly breaking through each other’s “impenetrable” defenses. Ultimately, Bane’s refinement in the force will triumph over Anakin.

This is Anakin Skywalker who was able to turn a one of the most powerful Jedi ever, one of the greatest duelists ever into a living joke in 8 seconds.

Much like Bane did to Kas’im. If Bane were to fight against Dooku, I could imagine his raw force strength overwhelming Dooku’s Makashi, as it happened with Kas’im.

This is the same Anakin who wtfpwned Cin Drallig with one hand while simultaneously choking anther Jedi.

While Drallig is certainly a decent Jedi among the lower levels (Vos, Bulq, Shaak Ti) Anakin beating him in a saber duel isn’t really meaning much. Choking his apprentice is worth a grain of sand.


Your HEAVILY underestimating Anakin, especially him being in the "crystal clear" state of mind.

Oh no, I am not. Anakin Skywalker is a very talented saber duelist, I would rank him almost equal to Bane here. However combined with Bane’s other advantages (orbalisks, greater refinement and knowledge of his force abilities) he will be defeated.

In a straight up lightsaber duel with "this" Anakin, Bane cannot compete, how can he even contend with him in straight combat?

Cannot compete? I love how you are underrating Bane. Despite the fact that he sent the master of all forms of lightsaber dueling scurrying away, he somehow “cannot compete.” He was using the force to augment his Djem So to the degree that he was a master of it able to push Kas’im ( who was powerful enough in the force to defend against a seismic blast that shattered “tons of rock and mortar.”) away.


Bane does Djem So, and he hasn't mastered the form,

Prove Bane is just mediocre or has a mediocre understanding of the form. As per Kas’im’s definition, Bane would certainly be a master of his form and have a deep understanding of many other forms of lightsaber dueling (for being able to anticipate and ‘seize the advantage’ between the times when Kas’im switched forms.) By BOTS he is even more experienced, enough so to isolate Skywalker and eventually win.

who knows as ROVD says almost every form of combat, and their highest most dangerous forms, combining that with being in the state of mind he's in. Bane doesn't compare.

This was referring to Darth Vader not ROTS Skywalker. In either case, Kas’im was exactly like that, but Bane nearly killed him in dueling.


Uh yes it is, considering the Sith Lord in question is a joke, I love how when people want to claim that a character isn't a loser they say "well he was in a warlike period." well guess what, so was every one mentioned in this topic.

No, what you are doing is saying he is loser based on too little exposure. All we see of Qordis was in the shadow of Bane, so we can never analyze how good he was. That would be like saying Dooku is a joke because we see Sidious conquer the galaxy, and Dooku was disemboweled.

He was a militaristic Sith Lord, who obviously had to see some combat time as they were waging an open war with the entirety of the bloody Jedi Order. Am I saying that he was stronger than Dooku? Of course not. Did I say that he deserved his rank? Likely.


So basically what your saying is Bane pwning some loser, who was afraid of him as a a Sith Student is more impressive then Anakin destroying one of the most powerful man to ever exist in the galaxy in 8 seconds? Would it have been better if Anakin laughed while doing it?

No Styles, I am saying that Bane didn’t even have to lift a finger to defeat one of the most feared Sith Lords of the Russan wartime. He overcame his shield as if it were never there.


Anyways by about November this year Vader (in suit) will probably be back on top as one of the most powerful Sith ever, when the Force Unleashed is released, with all the crazy over the top force powers they have in that game so far. [/B]

I am not sure about the first part, but I would certainly like to play it. 🙂

Well if you take my post out of context, then yeah it fits your argument, I went on to include that HOWEVER in Anakins case, since when his rage and fear and doubts are in his head, it serves to weaken him more then it helps, making him a reckless berserker who can't think straight. Now Anakin in his "crystal clear" state which you put him in in this duel is not in that berserker state. Basically if Anakin can't focus it makes him weaker.

We've likely seen Anakin manifest this state twice, the first during his duel with Assaji Ventress on Yavin 4 when he goes from being relatively equal with her to completely overpowering and destroying her in a few seconds, the same with his duel with Dooku. Anakin in this state as a pure saber combatant could contend with almost anyone in the SW universe.

Secondly, there is proof that he had to push the moon in a relatively short period of time. First of all, his control over gravity and orbits was compared to “how a child might play with colored balls.” If Anderson was comfortable with making this kind of analogy, it really doesn’t make sense that it would take him THAT MUCH effort. Other than that, there are some real common sense things. He was on the back of a flying beast, so if he did not do it within a day at least, the creature would get hungry and probably not be able fly anymore. This would cause them both to plummet to their eventual death.

A. Your taking KJA's feat mentality and overall writing ability seriously? This is the same guy who pretty much single handedly ruined the EU with his "Uber" feats that made the movie characters look like jokes in TOTJ and FOTS and random stupid super weapons. Oh and did I mention his horrible writing?

B. That was coming from inside Banes head, so it really doesn't mean shit, let me remind you Padawan Anakin thought he was a match for Yoda.

C. Its easy to have the bird you know sit down and rest, and he has the ability to use the force to summon beasts so really its not that hard to find a new one.

I don’t know, because of some physical property of the parasites? If you want to state that the things were different, you are going to need some form of proof. Exceptions exist to every rule. Just because lightsabers can cut through Mandalorian Iron and cortosis eventually, doesn’t mean they cut through orbalisks. Bane slapped at multiple Orbalisks but noticed that the only thing which happened was that they ricocheted aside.

So, because we have one source saying everything "EVENTUALLY" breaks to a lightsaber. and we have Bane swiping at the Orbalisks once, its all of a sudden an exception to the rule?

I am not saying that his regeneration is infallible; I’m saying that only a serious trauma to his face (literally the lightsaber going in around halfways through ) would be able to kill him or cause him to be out cold.

Not really if he has anything that even touches his brain his pretty much done for, and really please explain to me how burnt, cauterized cells can be restored?

No…just knocking out the assertions that Bane has no clue on how to defend against a single bladed lightsaber.

Its not that he'd have no clue, its just he wouldn't be "as familiar" as he would against a foe using a staff saber.

I would rank Kas’im in pure saber as being able to contend with Yoda and Mace giving them a hell of a battle due to his unpredictability and him mastering all forms of saber combat. I wouldn’t know who wins. I would say that he could take down Dooku due to his mastery of all forms of saber combat, and his ability to deflect massive scale force attacks.

They'd both beat him (Mace and Yoda) and Dooku likely too, but that is anther topic and I wont debate it here. 😉

Bane’s mastery of the force was too much; he turned all of Kas’im’s knowledge into a joke much like Anakin did to Dooku. In conjunction with his force attacks, he has just the kind of leverage required to take down the duo.

Again your saying as if he can just spam force attacks, why didn't he just start spamming force waves on Kas'im? Because they were in a duel and taking the time out to gather energy to let a force wave go would get his head hacked off.

Ultimately, Bane’s refinement in the force will triumph over Anakin.

Again...how would that happen? There would have to be space between the foes first off for Bane to even consider a force attack and then there's Kenboi to pop up when he attempts one, then you have to prove that his attacks will even kill/hurt Anakin, considering Anakin took a force charged boot to the face from Dooku that flung him 10 feet and got right back up and that he's literally run through force pushes before and didn't even bother to put up a shield (Ventress duel of Yavin) has been electrocuted severely through his robotic hand for 15 seconds and shrugged it off I'd say his defenses are more then a match for what Bane can dish out.

While Drallig is certainly a decent Jedi among the lower levels (Vos, Bulq, Shaak Ti) Anakin beating him in a saber duel isn’t really meaning much. Choking his apprentice is worth a grain of sand.

What your not getting is its HOW he beat him he beat him with one hand while holding anther being in the other. And really, Drallig was supposedly a master of Ataru, the battlemaster for the order, taught Lightsaber instruction to pretty much the whole order, I'd wager he was pretty damn good with a blade.

Cannot compete? I love how you are underrating Bane. Despite the fact that he sent the master of all forms of lightsaber dueling scurrying away, he somehow “cannot compete.” He was using the force to augment his Djem So to the degree that he was a master of it able to push Kas’im ( who was powerful enough in the force to defend against a seismic blast that shattered “tons of rock and mortar.”) away.

And Anakin couldn't do that same feat...

Prove Bane is just mediocre or has a mediocre understanding of the form. As per Kas’im’s definition, Bane would certainly be a master of his form and have a deep understanding of many other forms of lightsaber dueling (for being able to anticipate and ‘seize the advantage’ between the times when Kas’im switched forms.) By BOTS he is even more experienced, enough so to isolate Skywalker and eventually win.

Did I say he was mediocre? No. Sure by Kas'im definition he's a master good for him, but does he know the most advanced movements of the form like Anakin does? Likely not. Does he know the most advanced forms of pretty much "every form of combat" I doubt it.

This was referring to Darth Vader not ROTS Skywalker. In either case, Kas’im was exactly like that, but Bane nearly killed him in dueling.

A. So in the weeks time while Anakin was self loathing, crying over his suit, and basically being an all around *****. He took the time to learn almost every single form of combat...No. He knew these things before his tenure as Dark Lord

B. Yeah he's just like Kas'im only you know...stronger.

No, what you are doing is saying he is loser based on too little exposure. All we see of Qordis was in the shadow of Bane, so we can never analyze how good he was. That would be like saying Dooku is a joke because we see Sidious conquer the galaxy, and Dooku was disemboweled.

Wow, that was a very bad analogy, unlike Qordis we see Dooku, battling multiple Jedi Masters, being called one of the most powerful beings to ever exist, tooling Grevious ect...ect...and really you were doing the same thing for Cin just a second ago.

He was a militaristic Sith Lord, who obviously had to see some combat time as they were waging an open war with the entirety of the bloody Jedi Order.

No, the Jedi had just joined in after the first battle of Rusaan, and Qordis was a teacher on the Academy, we have NO evidence of him engaging in any actual combat with Jedi, simply saying "well he was in a militaristic time" is BS, especially when we have Sith from the KOTOR era on the Academy who didn't engage in combat with the Jedi (Uthar and Yuthura)


Am I saying that he was stronger than Dooku? Of course not. Did I say that he deserved his rank? Likely.

Considering how hard pressed that order was for actual talent and the fact that he was shitting his pants over a Student Bane, I'd say not.

No Styles, I am saying that Bane didn’t even have to lift a finger to defeat one of the most feared Sith Lords of the Russan wartime. He overcame his shield as if it were never there.

Big whoop, considering as said the dude f*cking sucked.

I am not sure about the first part, but I would certainly like to play it. 🙂

Yup, comes out in November for the 360 and PS3 with a brand new engine built by LA for this game and it is intended to be the next EU "event" with a novel, comic series, and source book coming out for it. It was developed directly under the supervision of Lucas and is gonna be legitimately part of the continuity.

You play as Vaders secret apprentice (he's training you to help over throw the Palpy) and you hunt down the remaining Jedi (You get to fight Shaak Ti) But yeah Vader will probably be uber in that considering all the shit his student can do.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Force_Unleashed_%28game%29#Force_Powers

Ahah you are still on the topic of Bane allegedly pushing the moon.

Just so everyone knows, I don't intend to get into a big argument over this.

Alright, so let's forget for a moment that Bane supposedly moved a moon. Let's just focus on the fact that he was able to kill Quordis with just the Force and that he did it with total ease. Now, yes, Quordis probably isn't as strong as Obi-wan or Anakin, but he's got to be near them in level. I don't see how anyone can consider someone who's likely in the top ten of the Brother of Darkness as anything less than a rival of Anakin or Obi-wan in power.

Let me make the following clear. I am not saying that Bane could pwn Anakin or Obi-wan with the Force like he did Quodis. All I am saying that he is superior to the two of them here.

Now lets take a look at lightsaber combat. Bane's extremely skilled here. For example, he was able to go blow to blow with Kas'im, who is arguably better than any PT Jedi bar Yoda. I definately see Bane as being able to hold them off in lightsaber combat, as he was still relatively unskilled when he took down Kas'im.

So, basically I see Bane holding off Anakin and Obi-wan in lightsaber combat for some a minute or two and then unleashing a huge blast wave similar to what he did against Kas'im. This should probably kill Obi-wan and Anakin. I think it will but I know some won't agree with me. If anyone can prove without a doubt that they would survive and be in a state that in which he is still capable of killing Bane, then the duo takes this. Otherwise it goes to Bane.

Alright, so let's forget for a moment that Bane supposedly moved a moon. Let's just focus on the fact that he was able to kill Quordis with just the Force and that he did it with total ease. Now, yes, Quordis probably isn't as strong as Obi-wan or Anakin, but he's got to be near them in level. I don't see how anyone can consider someone who's likely in the top ten of the Brother of Darkness as anything less than a rival of Anakin or Obi-wan in power.

Are you kidding? The Brotherhood of Darkness sucked ass, they were as a whole weaklings with three really good members (Bane, Kas'im and Kaan) remember Bane's line about him wondering why poison is even harming him? The Dark Side was being spread too thin, thus making its force users weak. Qordis has shown us NOTHING for him to even be ranked beyond someone like Ki Adi Mundi, and I doubt he's een stronger then him.

Rank is VERY irrelevant, just becuase he was "up there" in an order that blew doesn't make him a contender for the true greats or even close to their power, for example, by your logic Darth Bandon is at least a match for Obi Wan because simply he was #2, but we all know thats not the case as he got his ass handed to him by Revan as a padawan. Again by your logic Yuthura is in the same boat as Bandon simply because she was a high ranking sith in a militant time, but she to got wtfpwned by padawan Revan.

See how that doesn't make sense? Rank alone is no measure of power, we have no evidence of Qordis's actual power other then some n00bs were scared of him and he was shitting his pants over Bane when he was a student. Qordis is NOWHERE near Obi Wan let alone Anakin. He's a joke.

Now lets take a look at lightsaber combat. Bane's extremely skilled here. For example, he was able to go blow to blow with Kas'im, who is arguably better than any PT Jedi bar Yoda. I definately see Bane as being able to hold them off in lightsaber combat, as he was still relatively unskilled when he took down Kas'im.

I have to stress this again, Bane's initial victory over Kas'im was do in part to two things, his overwhelming force connection( which comparing to Anakin is his "crystal clear" state is really not a factor at all) and the fact that the two spent hours upon hours sparring and Bane practically knew all his moves inside and out, he even comments on him knowing all Kas'ims moves by heart and that only some unexpected move could save him. Then look what happens Kas'im busts out Jar Kari and Bane shits his pants. Bane in this case doesn't have the luxury of fighting a foe who's moves he's memorized, his force connection is matched and surpassed, and Anakin is quite possibly the greatest master of Djem So ever (the style Bane uses) and knows the most dangerous forms of all styles of combat. He's basically fighting himself on steroids.

So, basically I see Bane holding off Anakin and Obi-wan in lightsaber combat for some a minute or two and then unleashing a huge blast wave similar to what he did against Kas'im. This should probably kill Obi-wan and Anakin. I think it will but I know some won't agree with me. If anyone can prove without a doubt that they would survive and be in a state that in which he is still capable of killing Bane, then the duo takes this. Otherwise it goes to Bane.

Your falling into the exact same argument that every other Bane fanboy does (not calling you a Bane fanboy though) Bane CANNOT just spam, force attacks out his ass, the one attack that he did do and your purposing that he'd do hear took a good five seconds to charge , Kas'im was standing far away from him and left him completely drained, if he even attempts what he did to Kas'im he'd have to stop dueling to focus the energy and the moment he stops, he'd get a blade in his face. But I don't even think it'd come to that, I don't believe he can even beat Anakin in direct combat, let alone WITH Obi Wan Kenobi watching his 6.

Also Anakin would likely survive it, he's taken much punishment and gotten right back up, he took a force charged heel kick from Dooku that flung him 10 feet and was up two seconds later, he was been electrocuted for a good 15 seconds and shrugged it off, he's literally run right through force pushes without even putting up a shield and not to mention in this state where he's being amped up by the force so much that Dooku can't even hold his saber properly without his grip being broken and he nearly broke Ventress wrists by just grabbing her, Anakin would likely block it much like Kas'im did, then Bane's dead.