The Biggest Traitors in History!

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Meh. I just feel that if you're risking losing limbs and and possibly dying, and you work in an eviroment that is incredibly hazerdous... you should get paid a lot more then some fat ****er who sits around surfing Myspace a quarter of the time and chilling out in an AC'd meeting room for half the time, and writing a report or two the remaining quarter.

I guess you'd rather have people paid by the risk they take or how little you'd like to have their job, while I prefer that people get paid by the money they are able to raise (or the worth of their work). Which, I guess is fair enough, just, I have no idea how your idea would work (except for not).

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. If there is danger involved then the value of their work will increase because the incentive needed for the employer to acquire the worker's services will be greater. It isn't a direct cause, but the wage/salary would increase nonetheless.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. If there is danger involved then the value of their work will increase because the incentive needed for the employer to acquire the worker's services will be greater. It isn't a direct cause, but the wage/salary would increase nonetheless.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I guess you'd rather have people paid by the risk they take or how little you'd like to have their job, while I prefer that people get paid by the money they are able to raise (or the worth of their work). Which, I guess is fair enough, just, I have no idea how your idea would work (except for not).

I don't think it would work, ot at least not well. It's mroe just a moral belief on my part, that your reward should be based on how much actual work you are doing. But yeah that wouldn't work out very well in a real life situation.

Originally posted by ragesRemorse
Jesus didn't have to die on the cross for our sins. It just so happens that he forgave of us of all of our sins as he died on the cross. This is just what i believe. It is very possible that Calvinism is right and we are all born predestined for either Heaven or Hell but i feel that we all have a chance for salvation. Judas betrayed his Christ for many reasons. I have read the Bible three times and i've never read that he betrayed Christ to save humanity.

Jesus' death (blood) is what paid for our sins, according to Christian superstition. So yeah, he had to die, he was litterally born to die for us. (and rise again, you know, that godhood business)

He did it for the 30 pieces of silver, still, he was destined to do it, as Jesus had to die for us. So in essence, he is the bigger martyr. Pray for Judas.

Alcibiades and Brutus. One was arguably one of the greatest deceivers in world history, and the other killed his former best friend and proxy father.

The list should really include 'The Jews', if you don't believe me, watch Gibson's Jesus flick.

Originally posted by Robtard
Jesus' death (blood) is what paid for our sins, according to Christian superstition. So yeah, he had to die, he was litterally born to die for us. (and rise again, you know, that godhood business)

He did it for the 30 pieces of silver, still, he was destined to do it, as Jesus had to die for us. So in essence, he is the bigger martyr. Pray for Judas.

At least, that's what they say.

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
I don't think it would work, ot at least not well. It's mroe just a moral belief on my part, that your reward should be based on how much actual work you are doing. But yeah that wouldn't work out very well in a real life situation.

I'd actually like you to clear this up. Are you saying that work should be defined as physical labor only? Intellectuals contribute just as much (if not more) than physical laborers do. It might be interesting, if not disastrous, to base payments as the amount of work as defined by physics, if only to see the economy collapse. (faster)

Intellectual labor in and of itself can not result in you losing limbs or dying from asbestos ten years later. To my knowledge, it is extremely rare to see someone have their arm chopped off on accident while typing a data report, for example.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Intellectual labor in and of itself can not result in you losing limbs or dying from asbestos ten years later. To my knowledge, it is extremely rare to see someone have their arm chopped off on accident while typing a data report, for example.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I'm not sure that's right. Technically you could say he was "destined" to do it, only because God and Jesus knew that he was going to do it already... but they know that about everyone. So, everyone is destined to something... that doesn't mean that they're good people or should be praised for doing it, though. And again, Judas wasn't doing it for mankind, in his heart he was just greedy. And by your logic, Satan himself should be praised since ultimately God knows what's going to happen, and Satan acts as a way to show that we (Christians) are faithful to God, meaning that his actions can be seen as a benefit to mankind, or at least the "faithful" ones.

At least, that's what they say.

Still doesn't take away that Jesus had to die and Judas' actions were what lead (at least in part) to that. Judas is a hero, or at least should be. As a Christian, you should revere that man, his actions despite done from greed, are what allowed Jesus to die and save you.

The Satan bebacle is a another thing that gets me, God knew he would seek greatness before Satan was created (since he's God and without limits), yet God proceeds to create Satan and then punish him for doing essentially what he was made to do. God really is the prick in that story. As a Christian, you should really feel pity and have sympathy for Satan, dude got a raw-deal.

But that shouldn't matter. Again, I'm talking not from a realistic, productive point of view but a mortal one.

Just because Mr. Barely literate can wield a device designed to chop steal in half, doesn't mean that he should get paid less then the University Graduate who sits in an office all day typing reports, because Mr.Illerate has a much higher risk of dying doing his job... or getting maimed. I feel that the higher the risk involved the more rewards they should get. Getting less health care coverage and less pay for performing a job much more dangerous then an office worker is nonsenical.

Originally posted by Robtard
Still doesn't take away that Jesus had to die and Judas' actions were what lead (at least in part) to that. Judas is a hero, or at least should be. You should revere that Man, as a Christian, his actions allowed Jesus to die and save you.

The Satan bebacle is a another thing that gets me, God knew he would seek greatness before Satan was created (since he's God and without limits), yet God proceeds tp create Satan and then punish him for doing essentially what he was made to do. God really is the prick in that story. As a Christian, you should really feel pity and have sympathy for Satan, dude got a raw-deal.

Or maybe I should just cover my ears, pass you off as a test to my faith, and continue to revel in my ignorance?

Heathen.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Or maybe I should just cover my ears, pass you off as a test to my faith, and continue to revel in my ignorance?

Heathen.

Very Christian of you.

Yeah, guess so.

i think you are all missing the main point. its all about intentions. some christian doctrines believe that judas new the role that god had in mind for him and betrayed jesus to bring about a prophecy. in this case, judas is a martyr, arguably an even bigger one that jesus.

however, if judas simply betrayed jesus for thirty pieces of silver because of greed, his intentions were purely selfish. there would be nothing to suggest that he was acting in the name of a higher power or that he was intentionally acting for the good of mankind.

besides, you're all missing the BIG one. eve betraying god's trust and eating the forbidden apple. downfall of man right there... and yes, i know it was catalyzed by a woman. eve puts us all females to shame.

i, for one, don't put so much emphasis on literal interpretations of the bible.

The Biggest Traitors in History!

My cookies, I mean one second their in my mouth and the next their in the can.... treasonous dog cookies!!!

Originally posted by Fallen
i think you are all missing the main point. its all about intentions. some christian doctrines believe that judas new the role that god had in mind for him and betrayed jesus to bring about a prophecy. in this case, judas is a martyr, arguably an even bigger one that jesus.

however, if judas simply betrayed jesus for thirty pieces of silver because of greed, his intentions were purely selfish. there would be nothing to suggest that he was acting in the name of a higher power or that he was intentionally acting for the good of mankind.

besides, you're all missing the BIG one. eve betraying god's trust and eating the forbidden apple. downfall of man right there... and yes, i know it was catalyzed by a woman. eve puts us all females to shame.

i, for one, don't put so much emphasis on literal interpretations of the bible.

If the Eve story is true, then it isn't really her fault either, God is to blame, for being a total ass.

Originally posted by Robtard
Jesus' death (blood) is what paid for our sins, according to Christian superstition. So yeah, he had to die, he was litterally born to die for us. (and rise again, you know, that godhood business)

He did it for the 30 pieces of silver, still, he was destined to do it, as Jesus had to die for us. So in essence, he is the bigger martyr. Pray for Judas.

Ever seen the Last Tempation of Christ? That movie deals with this idea directly... great film.

Originally posted by Blinky
Ever seen the Last Tempation of Christ? That movie deals with this idea directly... great film.

I did; that's why I said "The Jews" should be included on the list. I thought the film was terrible though.