Here's what I don't get...
DoS Doomsday fought a Superman who was waayyy below pre-crisis levels (I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong). Put another way: pre-crisis Superman is far, far, far more powerful than DoS Superman.
DD fought his Superman to a draw. This suggests he would've been child's play for pre-crisis Superman.
Now: a very angry Hulk budged--Budged!--a pre-crisis Superman who was determined Not to be budged...and he was getting still stronger, so much so that pre-crisis Superman began to doubt the outcome of the battle.
The OP said, basically, that Hulk in this thread can be as strong as one can imagine. Well, I imagine Hulk as the one pre-crisis Superman was worrying about, the one he would've become had Superman not destroyed that pesky bot. Heck, can't I even imagine a Hulk beyond that one? Technically I can imagine a Hulk so strong, no version of Doomsday nor Superman could win.
IMO, at this power level it's insignificant what Doomsday can bring to bear. If Hulk is starting off with pre-crisis-Superman-strength (at least), once he grabs DD, it's over.
Discuss.
Originally posted by Mindship
Here's what I don't get...DoS Doomsday fought a Superman who was waayyy below pre-crisis levels (I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong). Put another way: pre-crisis Superman is far, far, far more powerful than DoS Superman.
DD fought his Superman to a draw. This suggests he would've been child's play for pre-crisis Superman.
Now: a very angry Hulk budged--Budged!--a pre-crisis Superman who was determined Not to be budged...and he was getting still stronger, so much so that pre-crisis Superman began to doubt the outcome of the battle.
The OP said, basically, that Hulk in this thread can be as strong as one can imagine. Well, I imagine Hulk as the one pre-crisis Superman was worrying about, the one he would've become had Superman not destroyed that pesky bot. Heck, can't I even imagine a Hulk beyond that one? Technically I can imagine a Hulk so strong, no version of Doomsday nor Superman could win.
IMO, at this power level it's insignificant what Doomsday can bring to bear. If Hulk is starting off with pre-crisis-Superman-strength (at least), once he grabs DD, it's over.
Discuss.
1. Crossovers = PIS
2. The OP didn't say "as angry as we could imagine". It said "as angry as if Betty had just been killed by the opponent". Frankly, I doubt think Hulk has the capacity to, of his own accord, grow angry enough to budge PC Supes. With a sci-fi anger booster? Sure, why not. But, he starts off at low cl100, and PC Supes is laughably far above that.
Originally posted by Mindship
Here's what I don't get...DoS Doomsday fought a Superman who was waayyy below pre-crisis levels (I trust someone will correct me if I'm wrong). Put another way: pre-crisis Superman is far, far, far more powerful than DoS Superman.
DD fought his Superman to a draw. This suggests he would've been child's play for pre-crisis Superman.
Now: a very angry Hulk budged--Budged!--a pre-crisis Superman who was determined Not to be budged...and he was getting still stronger, so much so that pre-crisis Superman began to doubt the outcome of the battle.
The OP said, basically, that Hulk in this thread can be as strong as one can imagine. Well, I imagine Hulk as the one pre-crisis Superman was worrying about, the one he would've become had Superman not destroyed that pesky bot. Heck, can't I even imagine a Hulk beyond that one? Technically I can imagine a Hulk so strong, no version of Doomsday nor Superman could win.
IMO, at this power level it's insignificant what Doomsday can bring to bear. If Hulk is starting off with pre-crisis-Superman-strength (at least), once he grabs DD, it's over.
Discuss.
okay if we want to include X-overs as evidence..
thor's KOed hulk.. superman trounced thor like nothing, the other avengers had to come save his ass.
post DOS supes KOed hulk in a VERY short battle...
hulk got Koed by batman...
superman is getting back to his post crisis levels if you weren't aware AND even still a CLONE of dd nowhere near as powerful as the original has sent supes over a cascade.
aside from that gog wars dd>>>> still over that hulk...
and aside form that.. if we want to get into crazy pis nonsense, i'll defect to the fact that DD has tossed pre-avatar darksied aside like he was peice of garbage.. and decimated the entire GL corpse....
sorry but as strong as hulk is, dd starts out stronger.. as strong as hulk gets dd will compensate by becoming stronger as well...
strength won't play the key factor in this fight.
but the factors that do count here say hulk loses this.
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
The OP didn't say "as angry as we could imagine". It said "as angry as if Betty had just been killed by the opponent".
Actual words...
To be fair, *snicker* Betty has been killed by DD, and Hulk saw it first hand. And with that, he should be angry enough to.........well, use your imagination.So I did.
on a side note, i don't even remember supes budging after he planted himself in front of hulk.. I just remember hulk wailing away while supes (hands at his sides) stood there....I don't remember the exact motion, but I do recall Superman raising his arm, as if to block. I'm using "budge" for causing Superman to move, in any fashion. It also said that Hulk's strength was growing geometrically, and that Supes' did begin to doubt the outcome of the fight.
Personally, I always found it to be the best of all the HvS fights. It really highlighted, in turn, the power of each character w/o detracting from the other.
Originally posted by Mindship
Actual words... So I did.
Basically, you pointed out, that, theoretically it could be a Hulk that would make Post-Crisis Supes look like a school girl. And I said, seeing it would have to come soley from Hulk's personal anger, I don't think he could/would be able to reach that level of anger.
The Hulk and Doomsday are the two most powerful engines of destruction of comic kingdom: everyone knows it, and who does not agree with that truth is retarded (not to be offensive anyway).
My question is : which version of Hulk and which version of Doomsday are we talking about ?
I'll try and show you as i see this awesome fight between (IMHO) the strongest characters in Marvel and DC.
The first one beat to a pulp guys like Thor (who's Superman equal); Gladiator (who's Superman equal); Hyperion (at least 3 clear wins and he's a Superman's equal); The Galaxy Master (a cosmic level being); Onslaught (in the slugfest); Abomination and so on....he beat/fought/trashed any marvel heavyweight (no matter if god, demi-god, human or other). And we all know hulk's feat of strenght: at top level he broke a cosmos with a single thunderclap; he substained more than 150 bilions tons; he shattered an asteroid large twice the size of the hearth (tons of other feats); he trashed two avengers teams with Iron Man, Hercules, She Hulk, Namor, Wonder Man inside....and many others....
On the other side we have a shorter rouge gallery but i think it can be enough to put him on the top of chain food: he killed and beat Superman (almost any time the two opponents fought) and he raped Darkseid (and not his avatar as some fanboys keep claiming 😂 ); he trashed the league, comic talk clear....
If these two monsters had to fight, no one could really stop them and they'd wreck any possible battle field, unless we're talking about a primary adamantium cage.
That are my %:
1)DD rex (DD who feels pain and fear) loses any fight against any version of the hulk.
2) Mr Fixit loses any fight against any version of Doomsday: DOS DD and H/P DD, DD Wars (DD with Brainiac's mind)
3) Merged Hulk and Old Gravage Hulk (not the current one) would stalamate DOS DD 5/10 draw, but they would lose 3-4/10 versus H/P DD and DD wars. In fact the Gravage Hulk almost beat Superman in the 1999 crossover.
4) The Byrne's animal (he is not the Mindlesshulk) who trashed two avengers teams, would beat DOS Doomsday (6/10) but he would still lose against DD Wars(3-4/10); he would stalamate H/P DD (5/10)
5) Current Gravage Hulk would get the majority of fights against DOS DD, but he would lose against H/P DD and DD's wars (4/10)
6) Classic Savage Hulk (really enraged) to the level of Onslaught's fight -or when Abomination talked about Betty's Ross death - would beat any version of Doomsday most of fights; he is another level of power (8-9/10)
7) Maestro (see point 6, 8-9/10)
8) War is kinda of cosmic being: he is out of DD's league. He can use the energy of two universes. He uses celestial tech and weapons and obviously he's the Hulk. 🙄 (Warhulk 10/10)
p.s. a not really angry hulk (aside probably War) should lose badly against any version of DD (aside DD Rex) (DD 10/10)
Originally posted by FearOfBlood
The Hulk and Doomsday are the two most powerful engines of destruction of comic kingdom: everyone knows it, and who does not agree with that truth is retarded (not to be offensive anyway).My question is : which version of Hulk and which version of Doomsday are we talking about ?
I'll try and show you as i see this awesome fight between IMO the strongest character in Marvel and the strongest in DC.
The first beat to a pulp guys like Thor (who's Superman equal); Gladiator (who's Superman equal); Hyperion (at least 3 clear wins); The Galaxy Master (a cosmic level being); Onslaught (in the slugfest); Abomination and so on....he beat/fought/trashed any marvel heavy weight (no matter if god, demi-god, human or other). And we all know hulk's feat of strenght: at top level he broke a cosmos with a single thunderclap; he substained more than 150 bilion tons; he shattered an asteroid large twice the size of the earth (tons of feat); he trashed two avengers teams with Iron Man, Hercules, She Hulk, Namor, Wonder Man inside....and many others....
On the other side we have a shorter rouge gallery but i think it can be enough to put him on the top of food chain: he killed and beat Superman (almost any time the two opponents fought) and he raped Darkseid (and not his avatar as some fanboys keep claiming 😂 ); he trashed the league, comic talks clear....
If these two monsters had to fight no one could stop them and they'd wreck any possible battle field, unless we're talking about a primary adamantium cage.
That are my %:
1)DD rex (DD who feels pain and fear) loses any fight against any version of the hulk.
2) Mr Fixit loses any fight against any version of Doomsday: DOS DD and H/P DD, DD Wars (DD with Brainiac's mind)
3) Merged Hulk and Old Gravage Hulk (not the current one) would stalamate DOS DD 5/10 draw, but they would lose 3-4/10 versus H/P DD and DD wars. In fact the Gravage Hulk almost beat Superman in the 1999 crossover.
4) The Byrne's animal (he is not the Mindlesshulk) who trashed two avengers teams, would beat DOS Doomsday (6/10) but he would still lose against DD Wars(3-4/10); he would stalamate H/P DD (5/10)
5) Current Gravage Hulk would get the majority of fights against DOS DD, but he would lose against H/P DD and DD's wars (4/10)
6) Classic Savage Hulk (really enraged) to the level of Onslaught's fight -or when Abomination talked about Betty's Ross death - would beat any version of Doomsday most of fights; he is another level of power (8-9/10)
7) Maestro (see point 6, 8-9/10)
8) War is kinda of cosmic being: he is out of DD's league. He can use the energy of two universes. He uses celestial tech and weapons and obviously he's the Hulk. 🙄 (Warhulk 10/10)
p.s. a not really angry hulk (aside probably War) should lose badly against any version of DD (aside DD Rex) (DD 10/10)
i think the key thing is that he "raped Darkseid" who is leagues and leagues above anyone whom has jobbed for the Hulk
Originally posted by jinzin
while I agree with you're veiws on who hulk can hang with or beat dd wise...for strength feats.. the thing is, superman's strength feats are right there infront of our faces.. while hulk's can easily be construed as hyperbole... what's his greatest feat of strength that we can actually see?
STOP!!!!!!!! I NEVER SAID HULK WAS STARTING OUT AT LEVELS OVER SUPERMAN!
The opening did mean what Smurf said it did, that Hulk would be at Betty-being-killed anger levels.
I didn't want to put my opinion in the opening, but here's what I was originally going to put.
"And with that, he should be angry enough to.........last 10 extra minutes before DD kills him."
Now, no more arguements about Hulk starting at PC Supes level.
Any version of DD that has actual fighting ability (no DD rex), will rape Hulk. Gog Wars, DOS, H/P, the one that tore through the imperiex drones (was that rex or H/P?), all are stronger, faster, angrier and more dangerous than Hulk.
Not even War Hulk can beat the strongest version of DD. Hell, anyone saying Hulk can beat someone who killed Superman, beat down an avatar of DS, killed x number of imperiex drones, beat x number of gogs, is insane.
This topic shouldn't even be up for discussion. Hulk is not the same league as Supes, he certainly isn't powerful to defeat his killer.
lol @ TP
Any way, yeah if DD has just killed Betty, especially in front to f DD, then Hulk will be at Superman's level of strength and most likely beyond it. Seeing as how he always reaches seemingly impossible levels of strength in moments several times in the past, it's really not that hard to imagine.
Any way, I stand by my original statement.