Dark Phoenix vs. Imperiex

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your logic doesnt apply when they are the same thing. If it was a case of Blue Energy Superman and i was trying to use standard Supermans feats then you would have a point.

The only differences between the Jean Phoenixes are the names and the mentality.

Phoenix wins.

If a thread starter specifies a particular version of Phoenix (as is the case in this thread), then they clearly didn't mean for someone to use feats from other versions of Phoenix.

If someone makes a v.s. thread featuring Extant, and only specifies that it was normal Extant in the thread........ I'm not going to use feats from Cosmic Extant, (even though they are one in the same), because Cosmic Extant is not whom was specified in that particular thread.

See where I'm coming from?

Read the opening comment like i did and know why you've wasted your time. 😬

Originally posted by SilverSurferFan
This is not a spite thread or anything. I am seriously wondering, after finishing Our Worlds At War, whether Imperiex would be able to take on any incarnation of the phoenix force (Jean, Rachel, etc.).

This is because, in Our Worlds at War, when Imperiex's energy was released, he unleased a big bang (the book specifically said that there were two big bangs that occured almost simultaneously) at the beginning of time. Since the Phoenix Force is believed to power the big bang also, I was wondering what would happen if the two faced each other. Thank you.

Originally posted by Galan007
At this point I'm not talking about the victor of this thread...... I could honestly care less.

If a thread starter specifies a particular version of Phoenix (as is the case in this thread), then they clearly didn't mean for someone to use feats from other versions of Phoenix.

If someone makes a v.s. thread featuring Extant, and only specifies that it was normal Extant in the thread........ I'm not going to use feats from Cosmic Extant, (even though they are one in the same), because Cosmic Extant is not whom was specified in that particular thread.

See where I'm coming from?

If Extant became Cosmic Extant through some external empowerment, then no i wouldnt even think of mentioning Cosmic Extants feats in a thread about Extant. If Extant and Cosmic Ex are exactly the same physically but just have different names and a different mentality/attitude then yes i would refer to both of their feats. Why? Because theyre exactly the same power wise, which is of course what these hypothetical match ups are judged on. NOT their mentalitys. 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Read the opening comment like i did

To me he meant this to start out with the Dark Phoenix, and if that wasn't enough, move on to which of her incarnations could defeat Imperiex.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
and know why you've wasted your time. 😬

I'm not your "regular debating partner".

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Because theyre exactly the same power wise, which is of course what these hypothetical match ups are judged on. NOT their mentalitys. 😬

Dark Phoenix was specified in the thread title, so that's what particular characters feats we should use. And if DP's feats aren't enough, then move on to other versions of Phoenix, (as the opening post seems to imply).

Originally posted by Galan007
He says any incarnation, but also specified Dark Phoenix in the thread title.

To me he meant this to start out with the Dark Phoenix, and if that wasn't enough, move on to which of her incarnations could defeat Imperiex.

No need to be arrogant.

He clarifies in his opening statement that any version could be used.

Regardless, all versions are the same except for name and personality. Personality doesnt come into it in these hypothetical versus matches, only ability. With all three being the same being, you are arguing into a deadend.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not your "regular debating partner".

Indeed youre not. Take it as bluntness. Thats all. Any offence was unintentional.

Originally posted by Galan007
From what I've seen different versions of Phoenix have higher and lower feats.

Dark Phoenix was specified in the thread title, so that's what particular characters feats we should use. And if DP's feats aren't enough, then move on to other versions of Phoenix, (as the opening post seems to imply).

Theres one Jean Grey. Depending on her mental state, she is referred to as either Phoenix, Dark Phoenix or The White Crown Phoenix. Phoenix is the good side, Dark is obviously the bad, the white side is Jean in balance as symbolised by the colour white which is a combination of all colours of the spectrum.

Personality doesnt feature into these matches. Once more, powerset does. In Phoenix bios you do not have multiple powersets listed because they are one and the same. Different showings are down to plot and her mental state. There is only one Jean Grey.

Dark Phoenix IS Phoenix IS White Crown Phoenix.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres one Jean Grey. Depending on her mental state, she is referred to as either Phoenix, Dark Phoenix or The White Crown Phoenix. Phoenix is the good side, Dark is obviously the bad, the white side is Jean in balance as symbolised by the colour white which is a combination of all colours of the spectrum.

Personality doesnt feature into these matches. Once more, powerset does. In Phoenix bios you do not have multiple powersets listed because they are one and the same. Different showings are down to plot and her mental state. There is only one Jean Grey.

Dark Phoenix IS Phoenix IS White Crown Phoenix.

How much power does White Crown Phoenix have as opposed to regular Phoenix and Dark???

Also, did you catch my WCP vs Flash thread??😖hifty:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Theres one Jean Grey. Depending on her mental state, she is referred to as either Phoenix, Dark Phoenix or The White Crown Phoenix. Phoenix is the good side, Dark is obviously the bad, the white side is Jean in balance as symbolised by the colour white which is a combination of all colours of the spectrum.

Personality doesnt feature into these matches. Once more, powerset does. In Phoenix bios you do not have multiple powersets listed because they are one and the same. Different showings are down to plot and her mental state. There is only one Jean Grey.

Dark Phoenix IS Phoenix IS White Crown Phoenix.

When has DP held an actual Universe in her hands, and then gone on to heal that Universe?

If a certain character is specified, then we should stick to that characters feats.

On the flip side, if WPOTC is specified in a certain thread, by your standard I could use the lowest showing any version of Phoenix has ever had as evidence as to how WPOTC can be beaten, (because they're all the same).

But I would never do that because it doesn't make sense at all.

Originally posted by Galan007
I understand all of this, but as I said before, different versions of Phoenix have different feats.

When has DP held an actual Universe in her hands, and then gone on to heal that Universe?

If a certain character is specified, then we should stick to that characters feats.

On the flip side, if WPOTC is specified in a certain thread, by your standard I could use the lowest showing any version of Phoenix has ever had as evidence as to how WPOTC can be beaten, (because they're all the same).

But I would never do that because it doesn't make sense at all.

Your logic is still flawed because they have the same powerset, they are the same being, there was no external boost to take Jean between the variations. Therefore your argument really doesnt make sense.

Its like saying this matchup only includes Mohawk Storm. Whats the difference between her and standard Storm? A haircut and a punk attitude. Does that matter in a versus matchup? ❌

The only difference between the versions is personality. The difference in showings is down to mental state and plot. Dark Phoenix doesnt heal universes because Dark Phoenix doesnt follow her role, she destroys, because its a Jean caught up in her power and out of control. Dark Phoenix eats stars and eats universes, Phoenix heals the universe, White Crown Phoenix heals the universe. Same powerset, same person, different mentality, different actions depicted on panel.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your logic is still flawed because they have the same powerset, they are the same being, there was no external boost to take Jean between the variations. Therefore your argument really doesnt make sense.

Its like saying this matchup only includes Mohawk Storm. Whats the difference between her and standard Storm? A haircut and a punk attitude. Does that matter in a versus matchup? ❌

The only difference between the versions is personality. The difference in showings is down to mental state and plot. Dark Phoenix doesnt heal universes because Dark Phoenix doesnt follow her role, she destroys, because its a Jean caught up in her power and out of control. Dark Phoenix eats stars and eats universes, Phoenix heals the universe, White Crown Phoenix heals the universe. Same powerset, same person, different mentality, different actions depicted on panel.

Originally posted by Galan007
On the flip side, if WPOTC is specified in a certain thread, by your standard I could use the lowest showing any version of Phoenix has ever had as evidence as to how WPOTC can be beaten, (because they're all the same).

But I would never do that because it doesn't make sense at all.

Im outta here for today. Later! 😱

Imperiex wins IMHO. It wouldn't be easy but he would take 7-8/10. 🙂

Sorry guys about the confusion with starting with Dark Phoenix, and then saying any incarnation. What I meant was that, first if Imperiex could take down Dark Phoenix . Then, if he could, say which incarnation could take him down (if any).

I always felt that White Crown Phoenix was made out to be stronger in the comics (feats-wise) than Dark Phoenix. Soooo, can we kind of assume that they have different power levels for this battle, based on feats alone? Thank you.

Let's put things in perspective.

Dark Phoenix fought the X-Men.

Imperiex actually "killed" and stopped Doomsday with one shot.

That alone makes him more impressive than her in combat power.

Add in teh fact he IS the Big Bang and well.........Dark Phoenix dies.

P.S.
Doomsday can take laser guns and EMPs. 🙂

phoenix wins this

I think Imperiex is entrophy incarnate... and is the big bang... but i think pf exsisted prior to big bang in other universes... so dp

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Let's put things in perspective.

Dark Phoenix fought the X-Men.

Imperiex actually "killed" and stopped Doomsday with one shot.

That alone makes him more impressive than her in combat power.

Add in teh fact he IS the Big Bang and well.........Dark Phoenix dies.

P.S.
Doomsday can take laser guns and EMPs. 🙂

You don't think the Dark Phoenix couldn't have killed the Xmen at anytime? She can eat stars but not kill the Xmen. There were two factors that prevented DP from doing so the main one being that she had just been introduced to the dark side of emotions and was enjoying herself, the second being Jean Grey fighting her from within. Phoenix has been in at least two suns, prior to her being killed by a laser and an emp, which are shit compared to suns, common sense and logic would dictate that she was made vulnerable to be killed, since she committed suicide the first time anyway. Before the Emp she told wolverine she didn't know how long the Phoenix would let her stay. "Hey I can fly into the sun and eat it, but an Emp can kill me without me allowing it so that I can do Phoenix work"